perceptions

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    perceptions

    Seems to be a growing attitude out there, that "Bruin" hockey is going the way of the dinosauer, and that speed and skill is a sadly lacking commodity within this group.


    What exactly is the DNA of this team.  To me, there seems to be a great deal of confusion.


    Much has been written about how this team had the fewest PP's in the league this year.  Guess that means they're the dirtiest right?


    Actually no, not even close.  The Bruins are exactly mid pack(15th) when it comes to violating the rules.  Guess who is #5.  Montreal Canadiens.  Yup, the Bruins are 10 spots behind the Habs when it comes to playing dirty.  Philadelphia is numero 1.  Most penalty minutes/game in the league.


    Guess who got the most PP opportunities in the original 30?  I'm sure everyone got this one.  The Flyers.  Yup, the most penalized team in the league, also got the most PP opportunities.  


    That should cover off the "boorish, brutal" moniker many are now so quick to bestow on Boston.


    We'll leave the "talent/speed/finesse" discussion to another thread.  Perception is just as off base in that area too.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: perceptions

    "  Guess who got the most PP opportunities in the original 30? I'm sure everyone got this one. The Flyers. Yup, the most penalized team in the league, also got the most PP opportunities.  "

    This proves what I've been saying for a couple of years now.  Take penalties because NHL officiating will even it out in the end.   If a team has a great PP why not turn a game into special teams . You think Montreal didn't try and do this ?  Their PP was working against the Bruins,  good plan,  altho not working against the Rangers.

    Game 7 TPA-BOS , no penalties , if Tampa wanted it to be a special teams play all they had to do is play chippy in the 1st 10mins of the game, take penalties and the refs would even them out eventually.  It would have been to their advantage because their PP was clicking , the Bruins PP was dead in water. 

     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re: perceptions

    Agree steve.  Just put the damn puck in the net and "style discussions" go out the window.




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: perceptions

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ?


    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ?


     


    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    "  Guess who got the most PP opportunities in the original 30? I'm sure everyone got this one. The Flyers. Yup, the most penalized team in the league, also got the most PP opportunities.  "

    This proves what I've been saying for a couple of years now.  Take penalties because NHL officiating will even it out in the end.   If a team has a great PP why not turn a game into special teams . You think Montreal didn't try and do this ?  Their PP was working against the Bruins,  good plan,  altho not working against the Rangers.

    Game 7 TPA-BOS , no penalties , if Tampa wanted it to be a special teams play all they had to do is play chippy in the 1st 10mins of the game, take penalties and the refs would even them out eventually.  It would have been to their advantage because their PP was clicking , the Bruins PP was dead in water. 

     




    Not to be a contrarian but the last Habs-Rags game kind of puts a hole in the "even it out" theory. The pp disparity was 9-4 in favour of the Habs....just sayin....

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: perceptions

    Agreed Stevegm, like I said in another thread, if you can get speed and skill in a trade then do so.  Every team is trying to do the same.  The Bs have skill, it did not show up in 2012 or 2014.  The speed of the game is predicated on the absence of the two line pass.  It can be defensed properly with experienced players. If these players have speed it makes the quick outlet pass less dangerous.  Hamilton has the skill and enough speed to be one of those special players.  An experienced defenseman with speed is needed.  I agree with most that the Bs should be going to the Stanley Cup.  I will say this, LAK look better with their newly formed second line, and the addition of Gabroik.  

    "Don't judge me monkey" 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ?

     

    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ?

     

     

     

    Playoffs: Reilly Smith > Tyler Seguin



    They do, but the game has more than 2 dimensions, and speed and youth didn't do in the B's.  It's really as simple as that.  When one assumes more speed and skill is the predominant answer to more success.  One is hopelessly mis-diagnosing what brought the Bruins down..

      What you seem to be missing, is that the Bruins "are" pretty young.  Cripes, they've only got a defenseman or 2 old enough to shave.  Rask is young.  So is Krejki, Marchand, Smith, Lucic, Louie.  At worst Bergeron, age wise is only hitting prime time.  The nucleus of this team, with the exception of Chara, is still expected to only get better.  No one expects Chara to all of a sudden stink the place out.  He's got more than a couple years of dependable service left in him.

    You make it sound like the DNA of this team is an aging Jerome Iginla and Sean Thorton(who has always been a spare piece)

    And arguably the fastest guy on the team is 33 year old Kelly(who is fast by any teams standard), so there goes the "age" argument.

    Can they get faster?  Yes.  All things being equal, faster is better than slower.  But fast vs slow, is not like good vs bad.  First you have to be good.  Fast without good...is no good.  No problem getting a faster winger than Iginla.  If that faster winger scores 20, and drags down overall scoring for that line.....it's a downgrade.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    "  Guess who got the most PP opportunities in the original 30? I'm sure everyone got this one. The Flyers. Yup, the most penalized team in the league, also got the most PP opportunities.  "

    This proves what I've been saying for a couple of years now.  Take penalties because NHL officiating will even it out in the end.   If a team has a great PP why not turn a game into special teams . You think Montreal didn't try and do this ?  Their PP was working against the Bruins,  good plan,  altho not working against the Rangers.

    Game 7 TPA-BOS , no penalties , if Tampa wanted it to be a special teams play all they had to do is play chippy in the 1st 10mins of the game, take penalties and the refs would even them out eventually.  It would have been to their advantage because their PP was clicking , the Bruins PP was dead in water. 

     



    I think the chippiness factor was normal in that one B's.  Difference being, the refs didn't seek center stage.  The culture as we've always known it, is that refs really don't want to blow the whistle in playoffs, especially ot's, and game 7's.  I think if anyone objectively reviewed that game, and this years game 7 against the Habs, literally dozens of infractions occurred in both.

    I'm ok with either scenario.  Calling only the most blatant fouls, or cracking down on all of them.  Can't maintain any credibility though, flip flopping back and forth, and that's the new norm.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

    Not to be a contrarian but the last Habs-Rags game kind of puts a hole in the "even it out" theory. The pp disparity was 9-4 in favour of the Habs....just sayin....

     

     



    I forgot to say with the exception of last game, it was the dynamic duo officiating this game, Jackson and O'Rourke.  They're the exceptions with 19PP for Habs to a whopping 9 for the opponents .

     

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to BsLegion's comment:


    I forgot to say with the exception of last game, it was the dynamic duo officiating this game, Jackson and O'Rourke.  They're the exceptions with 19PP for Habs to a whopping 9 for the opponents .

     




    Yup. Kind of raises the eyebrow does it not? The only "rational" conclusion is that the Habs are so outplaying the other team during those games that these two are officiating that they are drawing a disproportionate number of penalties. And we know, from watching these games, that this is not necessarily true.....

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ? 

    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ? 


    They do, but the game has more than 2 dimensions, and speed and youth didn't do in the B's.  It's really as simple as that.  When one assumes more speed and skill is the predominant answer to more success.  One is hopelessly mis-diagnosing what brought the Bruins down..

      What you seem to be missing


    The Bruins got beat to loose pucks time after time, shift after shift by a lessor talented team. Boston also got out hit in almost every game against Montreal. The Canadiens team speed most certainly had a lot to do with both. If you can't see that then you are in denial.

    Boston lost to Chicago in 2013 because they were constantly beaten too lose pucks all series. If you think health, Seidenberg, Iginla and the status quo will beat the likes of Chicago, Anaheim and LA the next 3 to 4 years then good luck to you. Watch LAs 70s line again and tell me the Bruins have an answer for that in a 7 game SCF series.

    Neely mentioning "a few tweeks" does not mean health and some puck luck. PC is not going to get away with Mezsaros and Daugvins anymore at the deadline or at the waiver wire. That thinking needs to be over.

    No perception but reality.

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ? 

    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ? 


    They do, but the game has more than 2 dimensions, and speed and youth didn't do in the B's.  It's really as simple as that.  When one assumes more speed and skill is the predominant answer to more success.  One is hopelessly mis-diagnosing what brought the Bruins down..

      What you seem to be missing


    The Bruins got beat to loose pucks time after time, shift after shift by a lessor talented team. Boston also got out hit in almost every game against Montreal. The Canadiens team speed most certainly had a lot to do with both. If you can't see that then you are in denial.

    Boston lost to Chicago in 2013 because they were constantly beaten too lose pucks all series. If you think health, Seidenberg, Iginla and the status quo will beat the likes of Chicago, Anaheim and LA the next 3 to 4 years then good luck to you. Watch LAs 70s line again and tell me the Bruins have an answer for that in a 7 game SCF series.

    Neely mentioning "a few tweeks" does not mean health and some puck luck. PC is not going to get away with Mezsaros and Daugvins anymore at the deadline or at the waiver wire. That thinking needs to be over.

    No perception but reality.



    Sure they got beat "time after time".  They also did the beating time after time.  Game 1 they were the much better team.  Many agree they were the much better team in game 5.  Actually, it was only game 6 and 7 that the B's really laid an egg.  Personally, I felt Montreal was more deserving overall than Boston in that series in 2011.  Stuff happens.  We all had them written off against TO last year at some point in game 7.  they were getting "beat to the puck" then to.  The game ebbs and flows.

    I'd be surprised if you weren't just as confident as anyone else about the Bruins chances a couple weeks ago.  Nobody was spewing about speed then.  They were the team to beat.

    Now they're a bunch of plow horses?

    Sorry, I ain't playin along. 

    And all this LA talk.  A month ago, the whole world had them pegged as another Carolina, "one hit wonder".  Amazing how they suddenly learned how to play.

    It's not just penthouse, or ch!thouse.

    The whole hockey industry thought the B's had a decent chance.  They did.  They just blew it.  They blew it because they didn't play nearly as well as they had been playing, coupled with a team that found horseshoes, and sympathetic  officials.  That stuff happens.  It happens all the time.  That's why there is so much interest i the "actual games".

     

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    Sure they got beat "time after time".  They also did the beating time after time.  Game 1 they were the much better team.  Many agree they were the much better team in game 5.  Actually, it was only game 6 and 7 that the B's really laid an egg.  Personally, I felt Montreal was more deserving overall than Boston in that series in 2011.  Stuff happens.  We all had them written off against TO last year at some point in game 7.  they were getting "beat to the puck" then to.  The game ebbs and flows.




    My perception stays with that the Bruins should have rolled over the Canadiens but did not because they got outworked. Not because "stuff happens" but the Bs couldn't catch up to the puck nor the play at long stretches of periods.

    I said at the deadline that PC needed to have Dman that could replace Seidenberg's minutes and a depth veteran scorer for the 3rd line but Chiarelli gambled and lost.

    If you think that all the Boston brass needs to do is resign Iginla and hope Seidenberg stays healthy without adding the "perception of speed" and get back to the finals then again...more power to you.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    Sure they got beat "time after time".  They also did the beating time after time.  Game 1 they were the much better team.  Many agree they were the much better team in game 5.  Actually, it was only game 6 and 7 that the B's really laid an egg.  Personally, I felt Montreal was more deserving overall than Boston in that series in 2011.  Stuff happens.  We all had them written off against TO last year at some point in game 7.  they were getting "beat to the puck" then to.  The game ebbs and flows.




    My perception stays with that the Bruins should have rolled over the Canadiens but did not because they got outworked. Not because "stuff happens" but the Bs couldn't catch up to the puck nor the play at long stretches of periods.

    I said at the deadline that PC needed to have Dman that could replace Seidenberg's minutes and a depth veteran scorer for the 3rd line but Chiarelli gambled and lost.

    If you think that all the Boston brass needs to do is resign Iginla and hope Seidenberg stays healthy without adding the "perception of speed" and get back to the finals then again...more power to you.



    I would have liked to have seen that depth D man too.  I wish they picked up Vanek.  But here's the thing Sandog.

    You don't just say Boston should have won.  You say they should have "rolled over" them.

    Sorry, that means you thought they were plenty good enough.  

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ? 

    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ? 


    They do, but the game has more than 2 dimensions, and speed and youth didn't do in the B's.  It's really as simple as that.  When one assumes more speed and skill is the predominant answer to more success.  One is hopelessly mis-diagnosing what brought the Bruins down..

      What you seem to be missing


    The Bruins got beat to loose pucks time after time, shift after shift by a lessor talented team. Boston also got out hit in almost every game against Montreal. The Canadiens team speed most certainly had a lot to do with both. If you can't see that then you are in denial.

    Boston lost to Chicago in 2013 because they were constantly beaten too lose pucks all series. If you think health, Seidenberg, Iginla and the status quo will beat the likes of Chicago, Anaheim and LA the next 3 to 4 years then good luck to you. Watch LAs 70s line again and tell me the Bruins have an answer for that in a 7 game SCF series.

    Neely mentioning "a few tweeks" does not mean health and some puck luck. PC is not going to get away with Mezsaros and Daugvins anymore at the deadline or at the waiver wire. That thinking needs to be over.

    No perception but reality.




    Yes ...they were out skated, out hit, and out competed by a lesser team. That has way more to do with style, system and philosophy than roster issues. They were playing just as they were instructed to...the need to upgrade speed is behind the bench and not on the ice. That was the single worst coaching job ever...still sick over it.

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to JWensink's comment:


    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:


    In response to stevegm's comment:

    How did the status quo do against a "skilled/finesse" Chicago team with a healthy Seidenberg ? 


    Why wouldn't team management, in any hockey organization, not want to add youthful players that have speed ? 



    They do, but the game has more than 2 dimensions, and speed and youth didn't do in the B's.  It's really as simple as that.  When one assumes more speed and skill is the predominant answer to more success.  One is hopelessly mis-diagnosing what brought the Bruins down..


      What you seem to be missing



    The Bruins got beat to loose pucks time after time, shift after shift by a lessor talented team. Boston also got out hit in almost every game against Montreal. The Canadiens team speed most certainly had a lot to do with both. If you can't see that then you are in denial.


    Boston lost to Chicago in 2013 because they were constantly beaten too lose pucks all series. If you think health, Seidenberg, Iginla and the status quo will beat the likes of Chicago, Anaheim and LA the next 3 to 4 years then good luck to you. Watch LAs 70s line again and tell me the Bruins have an answer for that in a 7 game SCF series.


    Neely mentioning "a few tweeks" does not mean health and some puck luck. PC is not going to get away with Mezsaros and Daugvins anymore at the deadline or at the waiver wire. That thinking needs to be over.


    No perception but reality.






    Yes ...they were out skated, out hit, and out competed by a lesser team. That has way more to do with style, system and philosophy than roster issues. They were playing just as they were instructed to...the need to upgrade speed is behind the bench and not on the ice. That was the single worst coaching job ever...still sick over it.





    You're an absolute nitwit. A couple months back you started a thread so that you could pat yourself on the back for recognizing all of the "changes" CJ made behind the bench (he made none). Now after they have the audacity to lose, you're back to blaming him again. It takes me back to the days of you crying about how much better the Pens and Bylsma are.........you know, because of their philosophy and stuff. Face it. You just don't know what you're talking about 99% of the time and the other 1% is just dumb luck. You should have lots of that. 

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: perceptions

    Seguin has speed, pretty sure that didn't help them win the cup LY.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    If you think that all the Boston brass needs to do is resign Iginla and hope Seidenberg stays healthy without adding the "perception of speed" and get back to the finals then again...more power to you.


    You don't just say Boston should have won.  You say they should have "rolled over" them.

    Sorry, that means you thought they were plenty good enough. 




    I think you should stay with this summers new BDC catch phrase "stuff happens", it's easy for some on here. If you want to praise PC for his deadline moves or non-moves, again and again, be my guest.

    "Plenty good enough" for the 2nd round ?

    Nope it was just a few lucky bounces that stood in the way of eventually getting crushed by LA or Chicago. That's what I here anyways. You sure did show me your perception and that is "status quo". Hey maybe just getting to the ECF or the SCF is "plenty good enough".

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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    I think you should stay with this summers new BDC catch phrase "stuff happens", it's easy for some on here. If you want to praise PC for his deadline moves or non-moves, again and again, be my guest.

    "Plenty good enough" for the 2nd round ?

    Nope it was just a few lucky bounces that stood in the way of eventually getting crushed by LA or Chicago. That's what I here anyways. You sure did show me your perception and that is "status quo". Hey maybe just getting to the ECF or the SCF is "plenty good enough".



    This Bruins team was better than last year's team and they didn't get crushed in the finals.  They were two minutes away from a game seven.  I'll join the BDC wagon, stuff happens.  This year that stuff included winning the post count 13-1.

    ***Follow Fluto on twitter.  He's awesome.***

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to JWensink's comment:
    [QUOTE

     

    Yes ...they were out skated, out hit, and out competed by a lesser team. That has way more to do with style, system and philosophy than roster issues. They were playing just as they were instructed to...the need to upgrade speed is behind the bench and not on the ice. That was the single worst coaching job ever...still sick over it.

    [/QUOTE]
    You are freakin hillarious.  Yeah, I can just imagine that conversation on the bench.  Julien: "Hey Marchy, you just outskated Markov and got to the loose puck first.  Cut that out.  Slow down and let them outskate you.

    ***Follow Fluto on twitter.  He's awesome.***

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to JWensink's comment:


    [/QUOTE]



    Yes ...they were out skated, out hit, and out competed by a lesser team. That has way more to do with style, system and philosophy than roster issues. They were playing just as they were instructed to...the need to upgrade speed is behind the bench and not on the ice. That was the single worst coaching job ever...still sick over it.


    [/QUOTE]


    CJ isn't the problem, still don't know why he wasn't a finalist for coach of the year, but if Ward's the one in charge of the offensive schemes, a change is certainly needed there....


    maybe Neely should consider hiring his ex-linemate Adam Oates....




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  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: perceptions

    In response to goodnewsbears' comment:

    This Bruins team was better than last year's team and they didn't get crushed in the finals.  They were two minutes away from a game seven.  I'll join the BDC wagon, stuff happens.  This year that stuff included winning the post count 13-1. 



    If this years Bruins team was better than last years team they make it to the finals again.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: perceptions

    Throwing a bunch of prospects in isn't a convincing solution, and deals need to make you net better than you were before hand, so it's harder to make good deals when you have a really good team.  This team is somewhere between the juggernaut of the March and the limp s.o.b.s we saw against Detroit and Montreal.  It would be a mistake to assume they're either extreme.

    As for "stuff happens," the offense went cold before the playoffs, and only the PP really clicked against Detroit.  They weren't playing well.  Having a rookie or two on the bench who could have pushed the issue - other than Florek or Fraser or Caron - might have had some merit.  But expecting a transfusion of youth to make a huge difference seems...imprudent.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from pucman. Show pucman's posts

    Re: perceptions

    Speed is not just straight away skating. Speed is the movement of the puck, the players breaking up ice,etc.,etc. The Bruins are methotical in there approach.You know a team that goes D to D as much as the Bruins? They just play a different brand of hockey then the so called "speed" teams. Is it winning hockey? I would put the B,s & that brand up against any team left in the cup run. I,ll put the B,s #1 in "quick sticks" Bergeron,Ericcson,Kelly all have unbelievable sticks. Now if we could some how figure out how to get to a defensive corner puck first we may still be in this. I,m tired of this giving the outside while the Dmen collapsed. The Habs thrived on it with no adjustment at all. They got more puck possession & goals from just driving the Dmen in & dumping it in to the corner. The Weiss goal game 7 perfect example. Briere really? He won puck possession in the corner!?!?!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from blackcrowes. Show blackcrowes's posts

    Re: perceptions

    There's something that's been rolling around in my head since game 7. A lot of people, prior to the Habs series, were saying that the Bruins were a good matchup against most of the competition in the East (and the West for that matter), but not a great matchup against Mtl. So the Bruins lose and a lot of fans want to alter the team so they would be better equipped to beat Montreal. Is it possible that if you build a team that's made to beat Montreal, when they get past them they are now LESS prepared to beat the likes of Pittsburgh, NYR, Philly, Chicago, etc..?

    I guess what I'm trying to say is it seems like the Bruins are built to beat a lot of teams in the NHL. If the team is rebuilt to beat one team... You may get what you pay for.

     
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