Phil Kessel

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     


    What proof do you have of this? You don't think last year against the Bruins, one of the more physical teams in the league, was a physical and intense series? Is that because is was round 1? He shined in that series.

    I'm not a Kessel fan, but I dont go around bashing players with made up stuff because he no longer wears the Bruins jersey. It's just stupid.




    Kels, facts;

    1) Lots of posters question his game (even when he was a Bruin)

    2) Last picked in the all star game a few years ago.

    3) Voted #43 best in the NHL by coaches and GM's

    4) His plus minus has only been north of zero only one year in the regular season.

    5) His final year as a Bruin most of his goals were scored against non playoff teams, Fluto wrote an article about it.

    6) He dissed CJ - the infamous weight room comment, and there were a few incidents with Wilson.

    All of these things add up to something, you can't pretend they don't exist.

    There are a lot of people who don't like his game and I'm one of them. 

    a) If he scores 40 goals, then we can call him a 40 goals scorer, but not until then.

    b) If he wins a Conn Smythe, we can call him a Conn Smythe winner, but not until then.

    c) If he wins a Stanley cup, we can call him a Stanley Cup winner, but not until then.

    d) Who scored the GWG in OT v. the Leafs in the playoffs game 7?  His name wasn't Kessel, it was Bergeron.  When he gets an important clutch goal like that, come back and talk to me about it.

    Kessels biggest issue is character.

    Facts:

    Recchi made the comment about 99% of us want to win a cup and don't think about anything else, who was the 1% he was referring to? Kessel.

    Chara getting into a pushing and shoving match with Kessel during practice, what was that all about?

    Dissing CJ when CJ said he should be visiting the weight room.  What's that say about him?

    Getting into a scoring slump and what does he say to the press, "maybe it's time for a change."  What's that say about him?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     


    What proof do you have of this? You don't think last year against the Bruins, one of the more physical teams in the league, was a physical and intense series? Is that because is was round 1? He shined in that series.

    I'm not a Kessel fan, but I dont go around bashing players with made up stuff because he no longer wears the Bruins jersey. It's just stupid.

     




     

    Kels, facts;

    1) Lots of posters question his game (even when he was a Bruin)

    2) Last picked in the all star game a few years ago.

    3) Voted #43 best in the NHL by coaches and GM's

    4) His plus minus has only been north of zero only one year in the regular season.

    5) His final year as a Bruin most of his goals were scored against non playoff teams, Fluto wrote an article about it.

    6) He dissed CJ - the infamous weight room comment, and there were a few incidents with Wilson.

    All of these things add up to something, you can't pretend they don't exist.

    There are a lot of people who don't like his game and I'm one of them. 

    a) If he scores 40 goals, then we can call him a 40 goals scorer, but not until then.

    b) If he wins a Conn Smythe, we can call him a Conn Smythe winner, but not until then.

    c) If he wins a Stanley cup, we can call him a Stanley Cup winner, but not until then.

    d) Who scored the GWG in OT v. the Leafs in the playoffs game 7?  His name wasn't Kessel, it was Bergeron.  When he gets an important clutch goal like that, come back and talk to me about it.

    Kessels biggest issue is character.

    Facts:

    Recchi made the comment about 99% of us want to win a cup and don't think about anything else, who was the 1% he was referring to? Kessel.

    Chara getting into a pushing and shoving match with Kessel during practice, what was that all about?

    Dissing CJ when CJ said he should be visiting the weight room.  What's that say about him?

    Getting into a scoring slump and what does he say to the press, "maybe it's time for a change."  What's that say about him?

    [/QUOTE]


    BahHab,

    I am not a fan of Kessel.I've never called him a 40 goal scorer.  I just dispute the fact that OrrTheWorst stated Kessel was a "ghost" during the Carolina series a while back. I remember the series well, and while he was certainly not the most effective player he wan't a ghost.

    This is more about my disdain for OrrTheBest than it is about anything Phil Kessel.

    I think Phil Kessel is a more talented player than a good amount of NHLers..That said, I'd much rather have Loui Eriksson on the team.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     

    BahHab,

    I am not a fan of Kessel.I've never called him a 40 goal scorer.  I just dispute the fact that OrrTheWorst stated Kessel was a "ghost" during the Carolina series a while back. I remember the series well, and while he was certainly not the most effective player he wan't a ghost.

    This is more about my disdain for OrrTheBest than it is about anything Phil Kessel.

    I think Phil Kessel is a more talented player than a good amount of NHLers..That said, I'd much rather have Loui Eriksson on the team.




    OK, fair enough.  I've come to this conclusion about people who really like Kessel.  They are like people head over heels in love.  No matter what you say to them, they don't aknowledge it.

    The argument is going exactly like this;

    Kessel realist: "You do realize your new girlfriend's does in fact use the toilet and it does in fact stink"

    Kessel lover: "Oh I know, but it's not as bad as 90% of the other women in the world."

    And on and on and on.  Never mind those 2 way players - like Zetterberg - Kessel is fast and takes that dangerous snap shot.  Blind to everything else because nothing else matters. 

    Kessel scores goals, goals win games.  That's all they say.

    Totally ignore: Backchecking, playing a good defensive game or hitting.  Mention any one of these things and it's "putting his game under a microscope."

     

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    Well I guess you're more accepting hard to imagine though  any fan losing a player like Neely and being ok with it.Eriksson is the only proven nhler the rest the jury is out I kno we Hamilton looks good but too early still .



    The 2nd time you've been shown this.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    Bhab, all of that is ancient history.

    The guy is a great player. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Bhab, all of that is ancient history.

    The guy is a great player. 




    I still don't like him.  And not quite ancient history.  The dust up with Wilson is relatively recent. I still wouldn't want him on a team that I root for.

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    I don't think you have to look very far for reasons to dislike Kessel.  I mean, it's obvious he's a really good player who is still getting better, but I don't think the drawbacks to his game are history.  I think he can be a lot like Semin or Grabner, even if he's been better than those guys recently.

    I don't think of him as a very consistent or reliable player, compared to his peers (see: all star team, top 25 scorer types).  There is a reason he was picked last by his peers at the all-star game and I don't think he'd be picked much earlier today.  He's on a good team this year and I think the Leafs are for real.  But he's doing about what I'd expected so far -- 1 goal on 15 shots and a minus-1.  He'll have his big games and he'll have his slumps.  He'll have his usually stat-padding hat tricks against Florida.

    I don't think a guy like him will ever be a team leader because it's hard for guys to change from who they are.  He was widely disliked by his teammates on the US development team and spent time in the doghouse during his brief U of Minn career.  We all know that Julien had fits with the kid and he was reluctant to work hard in the offseason or make improvements to his game.  I don't think he's ever been particularly popular with his teammates.  He's dopey.  It sounds like he's working harder and fitting in pretty well in Toronto, but I just don't think he'll have be a guy you build a team around, or a guy that gets his teammates to rally around him.

    To impart the annoying cliche, he is what he is.  Immensely talented at skating and scoring.  I wouldn't want him on the Bruins for anywhere near $8 million a year.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    Phil Kessel.  He's dopey.

    LOL

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to marco0863's comment:

     


    I'm curious how long you been a fsn of the bruins and which team if any do you hate the most?

    Since somewhere around 1969.

    Teams I hate the most, Habs, but close second are the Flyers and Canucks.

    And I don't care for Phaneuf and Cooke so any teams they are on.

    What does that have to do with anything?

    Checking my hockey resume?  I played high school in Boston area and college hockey in Connecticut.  Several friends I grew up with played D1 hockey.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Phil Kessel.  He's dopey.

    LOL




    Yup.  You have to search pretty hard to find an interview (that isn't scripted) where he doesn't come across as dopey.

    More than your average dopey hockey player.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    I don't think you have to look very far for reasons to dislike Kessel.  I mean, it's obvious he's a really good player who is still getting better, but I don't think the drawbacks to his game are history.  I think he can be a lot like Semin or Grabner, even if he's been better than those guys recently.

    I don't think of him as a very consistent or reliable player, compared to his peers (see: all star team, top 25 scorer types).  There is a reason he was picked last by his peers at the all-star game and I don't think he'd be picked much earlier today.  He's on a good team this year and I think the Leafs are for real.  But he's doing about what I'd expected so far -- 1 goal on 15 shots and a minus-1.  He'll have his big games and he'll have his slumps.  He'll have his usually stat-padding hat tricks against Florida.

    I don't think a guy like him will ever be a team leader because it's hard for guys to change from who they are.  He was widely disliked by his teammates on the US development team and spent time in the doghouse during his brief U of Minn career.  We all know that Julien had fits with the kid and he was reluctant to work hard in the offseason or make improvements to his game.  I don't think he's ever been particularly popular with his teammates.  He's dopey.  It sounds like he's working harder and fitting in pretty well in Toronto, but I just don't think he'll have be a guy you build a team around, or a guy that gets his teammates to rally around him.

    To impart the annoying cliche, he is what he is.  Immensely talented at skating and scoring.  I wouldn't want him on the Bruins for anywhere near $8 million a year.  

     



    Fletch - You nailed it. Exactly how I feel about the guy.
    He's still young and maybe his game will improve but I think his lousy character won't, and without that there are limits to his overall development. I wouldn't call him a "great" player right now and I doubt I ever will. 

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to marco0863's comment:

     



    You can't always go on wha you hear. If we do we will be the media dream candidates. 

     



    Well, what else are you going to go on?  Intuition?  A player crush?  And how can you say that and then post a quote from Nonis?  Did you just "hear" that quote?

    Since none of us are in the locker room, we're all forced to go on what we hear.

    I have heard negative things about Kessel from the USNDP, U of Minnesota, Boston, and his last coach in Toronto.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/2010/01/07/leafs_coach_singles_out_kessel_for_criticism.html

    I balance what I hear with what I see.  I see a ton of talent, always have.  I saw him get even better last year too.  He might take another step this year.  But I also see what all of his coaches have complained about.  When Kessel and Nonis part ways, I expect that he will acknowledge Phil's shortcomings too.  But after a very successful start for the Leafs and a pretty good loooking team, there is no reason to criticize anyone now.  I think Phil deserves both praise and criticism, and that's what he gets.

    He has gotten a lot more criticism than other 'elite' players though.  I think there is a valid reason for that.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to marco0863's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    You can't always go on wha you hear. If we do we will be the media dream candidates. 

     

    Here is a more recent quote

    The one knock that Phil had on him, which I think was totally unfair, is that he wasn’t a great teammate,” Nonis said Tuesday afternoon. “From the day he got to Toronto we could tell that was completely untrue.”

     




    You can't always believe what you hear.  So why should we believe Nonis?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    Why are we wasting time with the Leafs?

    Yeah, their forwards are above average. Their goalies are slightly better than average. And their defensemen stink and will be their downfall in the end.

    They can dream of the playoffs with that defense.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    Please explain this.

    This year the Leafs are 3-0.

    Kessel is a minus one.

     
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:

    Why are we wasting time with the Leafs?

    Yeah, their forwards are above average. Their goalies are slightly better than average. And their defensemen stink and will be their downfall in the end.

    They can dream of the playoffs with that defense.

     



    I disagree.  I think Cody Franson is very good.  Phaneuf is never what he should be (or was), but he's still good, a top-2 guy.  Gardiner is up and coming.  Gunnerson can play.  Ranger and Fraser are fine for the 5-6 pairing.  I actually think that its no longer a weakness for them, or at least it has become average compared to the rest of the league.  I think one of their problems last year was that their forwards play terrible D and get lost on the coverages.  That's what Bolland and McClement were brought in to help with.

    Kessel, Lupol, Kadri, JVR -- all lousy backchecking and in their own zone.  The D-men are okay.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Why are we wasting time with the Leafs?

    Yeah, their forwards are above average. Their goalies are slightly better than average. And their defensemen stink and will be their downfall in the end.

    They can dream of the playoffs with that defense.

     

     



    I disagree.  I think Cody Franson is very good.  Phaneuf is never what he should be (or was), but he's still good, a top-2 guy.  Gardiner is up and coming.  Gunnerson can play.  Ranger and Fraser are fine for the 5-6 pairing.  I actually think that its no longer a weakness for them, or at least it has become average compared to the rest of the league.  I think one of their problems last year was that their forwards play terrible D and get lost on the coverages.  That's what Bolland and McClement were brought in to help with.

     

    Kessel, Lupol, Kadri, JVR -- all lousy backchecking and in their own zone.  The D-men are okay.

    [/QUOTE]


    The major problem is Phaneuf.  Yes, some nights he is a top 2 pairing.  Some nights he isn't.  And the biggest problem of all is that he is consistently an idiot.

    Stupid decisions.  Trying to play tough guy and then not dropping the gloves I think sets a lousy example.  Trying to play tought guy is a lousy example.  He should model his game after Chara.

    He should spend less time admiring his own reflection in the glass.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Phil Kessel

    Trying not to sound like the president of the Phil Kessel Fan Club and I understand the problems people have with him, wether it be on the ice or off the ice. Just keep in mind, at the same point of his career, the talk around Marc Savard was pretty much the same if not worse. People mature, people change and while yes I do go on by whayt I read and hear as I am not obviously in the locker room, I'm sure some of it is true, some it is an exaggerated by the time it gets to us, and some stuff is just made up etc..

    I don't think he was a fit here for the team Chiarelli was putting together at the time and the temas record since has proved him correct. He seems to fit in quite well in Toronto.

    .At the end of the day he is what he is, a top goal scorer who will never win the Selke.




     
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