Re: Player vs Player
posted at 5/22/2012 8:23 PM EDT
Those are poor examples and you leave out games played on all of them, and ppg is relevant. Bernie Nichols is probably the best one, and we're talking about playing with Gretzky here, not just "better players". That said, Bernie was already a 90-100 point guy before Gretz. '88: 1.2 ppg. '89: 1.8, or a 58% improvement. His production then plummeted to below pre-Wayne levels though. So if the Great One can get you a 58% improvement for just one year in the high scoring 80's, I doubt that Seguin and the Bruins can get Nash a 65% improvement for years and years, and even if they did he would score less than Krejci and Purcell combined.
As for the other examples, they are not actually examples of what you're talking about, but quite the opposite. Adam Oates with Detroit: 1.13ppg (almost an assist per game as a 3rd liner!), with St. Louis the next year: 1.20ppg. Brett Hull pre-Oates isn't a good example because he is in his first and second NHL years, so he was still improving regardless of linemates (84 points wasn't bad though). However, did losing Oates make Hull less productive? Not really. He went from 109 to 101 points. He continued to be a great player, scoring less goals but getting more assists. His scoring declined gradually from the peak he had at 25. In fact, historically it is remarkable how many players have their most productive year at 25 or younger. The last example, Cheechoo, isn't really worth mentioning. He didn't become a better, more productive player with Thornton, he had one good year and then tanked and you can now find him with the Peoria Rivermen. Thornton was having his career-year (at age - you guessed it - 25) and Cheechoo was along for the ride.
Find a player who was over age 25 (if possible 28 like Nash), was already established and getting 1st line minutes and was traded to a more talented team and produced significantly better point totals. You will look for a long time and never find one.
In Response to Re: Player vs Player
I see your point Oates but I would rather have Nash and Thomas rather than Purcell,Pouliot,Krejci and Rask, and I like Rask. Not putting down any of the above mentioned players. I have no doubt Seguin will get his points, i just think Nash expedites the process and enhances Seguins potential/production. Some players have had significant jumps in their productions from changing teams or from their team adding a player. Here are some. 1. Bernie Nicholls --before Gretzky 32 G 46 A 78Pts --Playing with: 70 G 80A 150Pts 2. Adam Oates 1988/89 Detroit 16G 62A 78Pts 1989/90 Blues 23G 79A 102Pts 3. Brett Hull 1988/89 Before 41G 43A 84Pts 1988/89 Oates 72G 41A 113Pts 4. Cheechoo year before Joe 28G 19A 47Pts year with Joe 56G 37A 93Pts
Posted by kelvana33