radical idea for Sturm...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    Two other points - I'd have to go looking for the language in the CBA, but Sturm's salary is only off the books while he's eligible for LTIR.  When he comes off of LTIR, he has to be added to the roster.  I'd guess that's one reason the Bruins aren't saying that Savard is now just a question of conditioning - and with concussions you probably don't know how the conditioning process will affect symptoms.

    Also - you could bury Ryder until the playoffs then bring him up when players are no longer paid on salary.  That doesn't mean he wouldn't be claimed.  Whoever's playing Boston could claim him just to mess up the plan - there's no salary consideration for either team.  Ultimately that's the reason this subject comes up - if someone claims him on recall after the last game of the regular season, there are no salary consequences for the Bruins.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    Duinne
    it's just a matter of icing the best team possible. To say that encouraging sturm to waive his NTC is going to scare off potential future free agents is a bit of a leap. Unfortunately he may just be the odd man out. Did you cry out during any of the 3oo posts that talked about demoting Ryder to the minors? that actually ( I believe) may be a pay cut to him, would it not? A demotion and a paycut are worse than a change of scenery at full price...right? Did you protest during any of the 300 talks about demoting Ryder? and...wasn't Ryder a free agent signing......?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    "the Club shall be required to once again reduce its Averaged Club Salary to a level at or below the Upper Limit prior to the Player being able to rejoin the Club."

    It doesn't say they have to activate him, just that they must become cap compliant in order to active him.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    Duinne it's just a matter of icing the best team possible. To say that encouraging sturm to waive his NTC is going to scare off potential future free agents is a bit of a leap. Unfortunately he may just be the odd man out. Did you cry out during any of the 3oo posts that talked about demoting Ryder to the minors? that actually ( I believe) may be a pay cut to him, would it not? A demotion and a paycut are worse than a change of scenery at full price...right? Did you protest during any of the 300 talks about demoting Ryder? and...wasn't Ryder a free agent signing......?
    Posted by macdogcharm


    Mac, he has a one way contract, so he'll be paid the same either way, but you're entirely correct.  Taking a guy like Ryder and making him ride the bus in Providence seems worse than trading a guy like Sturm to a different NHL team.

    Of course, this line of thinking doesn't really offer any sort of support to the GM suicide gang, so it'll go ignored.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    I haven't forced myself to dredge through all the CBA trying to figure out the LTIR removal process, but the LTIR exceotion part says "the team must bring its payroll back in line before the player can join the team."  There's no mention of penalties for failing to do so, or anything like that.

    I think this is one of those places where the CBA deliberately leaves some wiggle room.  Like with low-value ends to contracts, the ability to send expensive players to the minors, and the ability to field a roster under 20 players, it keeps teams from running into a brick wall with no options.  None are explicitly against the CBA, but a team taking it to an extreme would be rocking the boat.

    Most parts of the CBA which deal with exceptions that allow teams to go over the cap include parts that give the Commissioner the right to mete out any punishment he sees fit to teams that he thinks are abusing the mechanics.

    Chiarelli may be able to use this strategy, but it probably comes with risks, and I seriously doubt the league would let him get away with leaving Sturm in limbo all the way until the playoffs (which does seem possible, assuming a no-longer-injured player can be treated like that in the first place).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    unfortunately, there is no "right" answer to any of this. PC will have to make a move and it has to be somewhat "major" to clear space...can't be Caron/Thornton Marchand etc...it has to be some major player(s)....someone's not gonna like it. My main concern is sacrificing player(s)...and then sturm and/or savard get re-injured...and in both cases....a re-injury could be the end of the line for them
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    Duinne it's just a matter of icing the best team possible. To say that encouraging sturm to waive his NTC is going to scare off potential future free agents is a bit of a leap. Unfortunately he may just be the odd man out. Did you cry out during any of the 3oo posts that talked about demoting Ryder to the minors? that actually ( I believe) may be a pay cut to him, would it not? A demotion and a paycut are worse than a change of scenery at full price...right? Did you protest during any of the 300 talks about demoting Ryder? and...wasn't Ryder a free agent signing......?
    Posted by macdogcharm

    No doubt that's exactly why PC would rather make almost any move rather than send Ryder to the minors.It sends a bad message but,as Nas stated,it's also about icing the best possible squad.Unfortunately there are no easy answers.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    I just don't see it happening anyway.  Let's say it came down to Sturm or Ryder.  Everyone takes Sturm, every time. It's either pay Sturm to sit and do nothing while Ryder plays in Boston or try to send Ryder to Providence and activate Sturm.

    Best case (for the fans):  Ryder makes it to Providence and is called up in the playoffs while Sturm plays the rest of the season in Boston.

    Best case (for Jacobs):  Someone claims Ryder on his way down and Sturm plays in Boston for the rest of the season, saving the team whatever is remaining of the difference in contracts.

    Worst case (for the fans):  Is there one?

    Worse case (for Jacobs):  See best case for the fans.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    And for the rest of the guys on the team?  Should they be thrilled that the team is so player friendly that it would break up the current great chemistry to fit someone else in? How would the B's not be living up to their contract?  Sturm would be getting every penny he deserved.  Furthermore, can you offer an example from recent history of a team committing this level of GM suicide and a future players signing elsewhere because of it?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot

    We'll see how well the Oilers and NYR are received by free agents next off season.I can't imagine the Souray and Redden situations helped them.I guess we will find out.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : We'll see how well the Oilers and NYR are received by free agents next off season.I can't imagine the Souray and Redden situations helped them.I guess we will find out.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    San Jose did it to Kyle McLaren.  Plenty of free agents have signed and re-signed there.

    Look how Chicago treated Huet.  The guy not only isn't in the NHL, he's not even on the continent.  Probably won't be too many players turning down contracts in Chicago.  No, it's not exacty the same, but it sort of is.

    These are business decisions in the Salary Cap NHL.  That's how it goes.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from macdogcharm. Show macdogcharm's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    not sure if the following has actually been answered (if it has I apologize, I must have missed it)...but....IF Sturm did re-locate....would Savard be able to come back, and we're all set....or, are we stll over the cap?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : San Jose did it to Kyle McLaren.  Plenty of free agents have signed and re-signed there. Look how Chicago treated Huet.  The guy not only isn't in the NHL, he's not even on the continent.  Probably won't be too many players turning down contracts in Chicago.  No, it's not exacty the same, but it sort of is. These are business decisions in the Salary Cap NHL.  That's how it goes.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot
    .
    You're right it's buisiness  so as I said we'll see how it unfolds.I still don't  think it looks good on the oilers or Rangers although free agents usually avoided the Oilers anyway.Regardless of anything,if the Bruins can ice a championship team,I won't care how PC makes it happen.Most of us can agree on that.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    Duinne it's just a matter of icing the best team possible. To say that encouraging sturm to waive his NTC is going to scare off potential future free agents is a bit of a leap. Unfortunately he may just be the odd man out. Did you cry out during any of the 3oo posts that talked about demoting Ryder to the minors? that actually ( I believe) may be a pay cut to him, would it not? A demotion and a paycut are worse than a change of scenery at full price...right? Did you protest during any of the 300 talks about demoting Ryder? and...wasn't Ryder a free agent signing......?
    Posted by macdogcharm


    There is a huge difference between "encouraging" Sturm to waive his NTC and strong-arming him, as you suggested in your original post.

    And as NAS pointed out, Ryder has a one-way contract, so sending him to Providence wouldn't make a difference in his pay.

    Ryder doesn't have a NTC, and he has a large salary, so he's undoubtedly aware of the realities of the situation. I should emphasize that I'm not advocating for giving any players special treatment (and neither would a player). Being treated fairly is all that they (and I) would ask for.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    not sure if the following has actually been answered (if it has I apologize, I must have missed it)...but....IF Sturm did re-locate....would Savard be able to come back, and we're all set....or, are we stll over the cap?
    Posted by macdogcharm

    I believe we would still need to shed some cash to fit Savard regardless of what happens with Sturm(just less of it).
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    Yeah, playing hardball with a player who's salary and performance aren't in the best interests of the team would send a negative message to all future free agents who might reconsider Boston one as of their choices.

    That would be like... a player signing a new cap friendly contract to stay in Boston and retire a Bruin, only to be on the trading block before his new contract even began.

    Or, being the victim of a severe head injury with intent to injure...while your team mates refuse to respond because your head coach was telling them not to.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    not sure if the following has actually been answered (if it has I apologize, I must have missed it)...but....IF Sturm did re-locate....would Savard be able to come back, and we're all set....or, are we stll over the cap?
    Posted by macdogcharm

    By my math, there's another ~ $1.1M that would need to be moved from the current roster.  That's another reason why finding something to do with Ryder is more appealing than moving Sturm - if Ryder is gone demoting Caron or trading Paille become enough to make up the difference.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : San Jose did it to Kyle McLaren.  Plenty of free agents have signed and re-signed there. Look how Chicago treated Huet.  The guy not only isn't in the NHL, he's not even on the continent.  Probably won't be too many players turning down contracts in Chicago.  No, it's not exacty the same, but it sort of is. These are business decisions in the Salary Cap NHL.  That's how it goes.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    The Blackhawks didn't treat Huet badly; they were just up against the realities of the cap. They could have sent him to the minors, but instead they sent him to a team that's near his hometown, and he's still getting his NHL salary.


    Huet, on loan from the Hawks, is making about 20 times more money than he did in the Swiss league the last time, yet Fribourg is paying only $200,000 of the $5.6 million annual salary owed the goalie this year and next. The Blackhawks are picking up the rest to keep Huet from counting against their salary cap.


    It amounts to a windfall for Fribourg, whose entire annual budget is $12 million. The deal is far sweeter for the Swiss team than it is for Huet, who has become the hockey equivalent of an offshore bank account after seven seasons in the NHL, even if he expresses gratitude to Hawks management for giving him the chance to play in an area he knows well.


    Huet grew up three hours away in Grenoble, France, and his wife, Corine, is from Leysin, a Swiss town less than an hour from Fribourg. The Hawks could have sent him to the minor leagues. So he is hardly in Elba, but it still feels like exile.


    "His talent level has never been the issue," Hawks general manager Stan Bowman said. "It was a circumstantial thing for us, and that's unfortunate. It's an odd phenomenon and certainly an unusual situation for Cristo."


    That Chicago is willing to eat $5.4 million to save money in the NHL's accounting system is an irony not lost on Huet. "I felt it since day one," he said, that day being the end of the 48-hour September waiver period when no other NHL team claimed him. Huet said he would consider playing in the NHL for less money, but contracts cannot be renegotiated down.


    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-11-20/sports/chi-101120-cristobal-huet-blackhawks-hersh_1_cristobal-huet-goalie-equipment-stan-bowman
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    Yeah, playing hardball with a player who's salary and performance aren't in the best interests of the team would send a negative message to all future free agents who might reconsider Boston one as of their choices. That would be like... a player signing a new cap friendly contract to stay in Boston and retire a Bruin, only to be on the trading block before his new contract even began. Or, being the victim of a severe head injury with intent to injure...while your team mates refuse to respond because your head coach was telling them not to.
    Posted by JWensink

    Yeah,CJ yelled to everyone on the ice"don't retaliate"after the Cooke hit.And savard said himself that PC cleared up the confusion with the trade rumours,assuring him they were just that,rumours.Savard has no hard feelings so why do you?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : The Blackhawks didn't treat Huet badly; they were just up against the realities of the cap. They could have sent him to the minors, but instead they sent him to a team that's near his hometown, and he's still getting his NHL salary. Huet, on loan from the Hawks, is making about 20 times more money than he did in the Swiss league the last time, yet Fribourg is paying only $200,000 of the $5.6 million annual salary owed the goalie this year and next. The Blackhawks are picking up the rest to keep Huet from counting against their salary cap. It amounts to a windfall for Fribourg, whose entire annual budget is $12 million. The deal is far sweeter for the Swiss team than it is for Huet, who has become the hockey equivalent of an offshore bank account after seven seasons in the NHL, even if he expresses gratitude to Hawks management for giving him the chance to play in an area he knows well. Huet grew up three hours away in Grenoble, France, and his wife, Corine, is from Leysin, a Swiss town less than an hour from Fribourg. The Hawks could have sent him to the minor leagues. So he is hardly in Elba, but it still feels like exile. "His talent level has never been the issue," Hawks general manager Stan Bowman said. "It was a circumstantial thing for us, and that's unfortunate. It's an odd phenomenon and certainly an unusual situation for Cristo." That Chicago is willing to eat $5.4 million to save money in the NHL's accounting system is an irony not lost on Huet. "I felt it since day one," he said, that day being the end of the 48-hour September waiver period when no other NHL team claimed him. Huet said he would consider playing in the NHL for less money, but contracts cannot be renegotiated down. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-11-20/sports/chi-101120-cristobal-huet-blackhawks-hersh_1_cristobal-huet-goalie-equipment-stan-bowman
    Posted by duinne


    "So he is hardly in Elba, but it still feels like exile."

    Thank you.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In the end, I'm going back to my favorite well on the question of how players will respond to the Rangers and Oilers decisions.  Neither Souray or Redden played up to their contracts.  The teams offered those contracts with the expectation of a certain level of play.  The Rangers somehow believed Redden would return to, say, 2007 in Manhattan.  In the current system, contracts are not just about business - they're about on ice performance and job description.  Redden and Souray were paid like top 2 defensemen.  They played like bottom two defensemen and occasionally like players who deserved to be in the AHL without reference to their contracts.  (Souray actually put up decent point totals when he wasn't injured or beaking off.)  When that happens, well, the team needs to acquire a top two D.  How else should they free up the money?  Who else should bear the brunt of a player not performing?

    Both guys will still rake it in.  The only hit is to their egos and zip codes while they serve out their time in the A.  I would hope that an FA the Bruins attract understands the realities of professional competition - particularly what happens to those who lost the ability to compete.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : "So he is hardly in Elba, but it still feels like exile." Thank you.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    You obviously didn't read the story. (unsurprisingly) It was a difficult situation, but Huet was treated with respect and has responded in kind.

    As I said, there is a huge difference between treating a player as an object and treating him as a human being. Huet was informed of the Blackhawks' decisions and situation every step of the way, and not coerced, deceived or sent somewhere he didn't want to go.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In the end, I'm going back to my favorite well on the question of how players will respond to the Rangers and Oilers decisions.  Neither Souray or Redden played up to their contracts.  The teams offered those contracts with the expectation of a certain level of play.  The Rangers somehow believed Redden would return to, say, 2007 in Manhattan.  In the current system, contracts are not just about business - they're about on ice performance and job description.  Redden and Souray were paid like top 2 defensemen.  They played like bottom two defensemen and occasionally like players who deserved to be in the AHL without reference to their contracts.  (Souray actually put up decent point totals when he wasn't injured or beaking off.)  When that happens, well, the team needs to acquire a top two D.  How else should they free up the money?  Who else should bear the brunt of a player not performing? Both guys will still rake it in.  The only hit is to their egos and zip codes while they serve out their time in the A.  I would hope that an FA the Bruins attract understands the realities of professional competition - particularly what happens to those who lost the ability to compete.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    Sending a player to the AHL because of cap concerns is one thing - not a good situation but at times unavoidable - but the animosity between Souray and the Oilers is pretty striking. They wouldn't even let him come to training camp, for heaven's sake.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm...:
    In Response to Re: radical idea for Sturm... : You obviously didn't read the story. (unsurprisingly) It was a difficult situation, but Huet was treated with respect and has responded in kind. As I said, there is a huge difference between treating a player as an object and treating him as a human being. Huet was informed of the Blackhawks' decisions and situation every step of the way, and not coerced, deceived or sent somewhere he didn't want to go.
    Posted by duinne


    Where does it say I didn't read the entire article?

    Wow, you are presumptious when you're wrong.

    At the end of the day, the players are employees and it's Chiarelli's job to do what is best for the company.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: radical idea for Sturm...

    The doc "Oil Change" was pretty clear about the need to purge certain attitudinal elements from the Oilers.  Renney was very clear in the first day speech he gave when he said the guys who should be here are in this room and the guys who are not should not.  I believe Souray was at a Starbucks at the time.

     
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