Raise The Draft Age?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : The conversation is pretty easy to follow.  You don't even have to remember it.  You can re-read it right here on Boston.com. I'll help you.  PLEASE NOTE:  The following conversation has taken place on this very thread.  Some irrelevant sentences have been omitted for brevity, but have not been omitted in an attempt to put any spin on the conversation at hand. Isla:  So the sole purpose of the change is to protect junior teams from losing players? You:  The sole purpose of this idea is for development ( and not what you're inferring that junior teams are trying to protect their players from being moved ) of all players in all leagues ( college, Europe , high school, etc. ). This was emphatically stated by Bob Nicholson in the interview that I listened to. Me:  No one in those leagues is interested in development.  They are interested in keeping their better/best players longer to make more money.  You:  Bob Nicholson who has suggested this idea is President of Hockey Canada. He is not employed by the CHL. He has talked with other federations of hockey to see what they thought of this idea before bringing it forward to the NHL to see what they think. If we were talking about someone  ( like CHL President Dave Branch ) who has direct connections to the CHL then I could see your point. But Nicholson doesn't. Me:  What's more important to the President of this organization, Jared Knight's goal totals, or London's box office return?  Knight tearing it up will increase the box office.  Knight in Providence does nothing for Mr. Nicholson's organization.  You:  It is for development of hockey in Canada and everywhere as he suggests. You have no idea what Nicholson's obligations are to the game of hockey in Canada. Me:  How does Jared Knight playing in London as opposed to Providence enhance the overall Canadian hockey experience? How does Jared Knight playing in Providence as a 19 year old opposed to London hurt his development? You:  What does Jared Knight playing in Canada or Providence have anything to do with the topic ? Earth To NAS this is a topic on raising the age for drafting players and why. Not where they play afterwards. Trying to twist the topic again . Not this time ! Maybe shupe ( Canadian ) can step in and set you straight on this . I apparently can't. The barrier is too thick. -- I'm not exactly sure where you got lost, Chowda.  You seemed to follow along just fine until you realized that you were dead wrong.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Replace this

    You: It is for development of hockey in Canada and everywhere as he suggests. You have no idea what Nicholson's obligations are to the game of hockey in Canada


    With the full statement which had nothing to do with Knight which you tried to make it out to be by conveniently editing. Nas style of course.

    You obviously needed Wiki to understand who I was talking about. He is involved in all aspects of Canadian hockey right down to kids hockey. If you think his sole purpose for this suggestion is to cater to junior hockey and trying to line everyone's pockets including his own then we have a scoop and you should be writing for Eklund. It is for development of hockey in Canada and everywhere as he suggests. You have no idea what Nicholson's obligations are to the game of hockey in Canada.

    I am dead wrong ? Humour me , about what  ?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    No, I really didn't.  That's why I put the disclaimer there.  Plus, there would be no benefit seeing as others know how to read previous posts in a thread.

    More importantly, let's get back to the subject of our discussion.

    I used Knight as an example.  I understand now that it confused you.  I'll use a generic terms this time to help you along.

    Bob Nicholson (whom I have never heard of because his entire existance is 100% irrelevant to most hockey fans) is the President of Hockey Canada.  You've stated that he is interested in the "development of hockey in Canada". 

    How does PLAYER A playing in CANADIAN JUNIOR CITY as opposed to AHL CITY enhance the overall Canadian hockey experience?

    How does PLAYER A playing in AHL CITY as a 19 year old opposed to CANADIAN JUNIOR CITY hurt his development?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]No, I really didn't.  That's why I put the disclaimer there.  Plus, there would be no benefit seeing as others know how to read previous posts in a thread. More importantly, let's get back to the subject of our discussion. I used Knight as an example.  I understand now that it confused you.  I'll use a generic terms this time to help you along. Bob Nicholson (whom I have never heard of because his entire existance is 100% irrelevant to most hockey fans) is the President of Hockey Canada.  You've stated that he is interested in the "development of hockey in Canada".  How does PLAYER A playing in CANADIAN JUNIOR CITY as opposed to AHL CITY enhance the overall Canadian hockey experience? How does PLAYER A playing in AHL CITY as a 19 year old opposed to CANADIAN JUNIOR CITY hurt his development?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    No, the topic was not about Knight and what should happen after they are drafted at all . It was about raising the draft age . Stick to the topic. You brought up Knight, not me. 

    If you want to start a new thread about it go ahead. 

    And a lot of Canadian hockey fans know who Bob Nicholson is . Does this equate to 100% irrelevant ? 

    I'm asking you again . How am I dead wrong on the thread topic ?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : How am I dead wrong on the thread topic ?
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    The topic we (you and I) were discussing was brought up by Isla.  You sure didn't mind discussing it when you felt you were right.  Now that you are fully exposed, again, you refuse to discuss it further.

    You're a joke.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : The topic we (you and I) were discussing was brought up by Isla.  You sure didn't mind discussing it when you felt you were right.  Now that you are fully exposed, again, you refuse to discuss it further. You're a joke.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Bring it up on another thread. I'll discuss it when we figure out why I'm dead wrong on this thread concerning the draft and Nicholson's comments which I read and listened to on a radio interview . First things first. I'll be waiting for your reply . I"ll discuss both, will you ? 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : Bring it up on another thread. I'll discuss it when we figure out why I'm dead wrong on this thread concerning the draft and Nicholson's comments which I read and listened to on a radio interview . First things first. I'll be waiting for your reply . I"ll discuss both, will you ? 
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Sure.

    From the article you posted, Tri-City Americans Bob Tory:

    "It's a tremendous blow to a junior team when you lose an underage (18-year-old) player because you can't replace them," Tory added. "Those guys are your best player and they sell tickets for you."

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : Absolutely wrong ! The sole purpose of this idea is for development ( and not what you're inferring that junior teams are trying to protect their players from being moved ) of all players in all leagues ( college, Europe , high school, etc. ). This was emphatically stated by Bob Nicholson in the interview that I listened to. If an 18 year is good enough he would be taken in the 1st round. If he isn't then he has another year to develop.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    "It's a tremendous blow to a junior team when you lose an underage (18-year-old) player because you can't replace them," Tory added. "Those guys are your best player and they sell tickets for you."
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    If development is the issue (i.e. letting kids who are late bloomers to develop) then why don't they let the AHL take care of that? I think the only consequence of letting teams draft younger prospects is just what happens in baseball. You simply will draft more kids that turn into coal rather than diamonds. Dont we already have a high enough failure rate for draft picks as a league? I think personally this is geared at making more money for the Junior leagues, "Look, we have 5, 6, 12 draft picks on the team, come watch them play."
    Seems like a silly topic to consider if "the kids" are at the core of the debate, which I dont believe they are.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : "It's a tremendous blow to a junior team when you lose an underage (18-year-old) player because you can't replace them," Tory added. "Those guys are your best player and they sell tickets for you."
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Wow ! I didn't realize this would be so difficult for you to comprehend . And you wrote/write for a living ?

    It's obvious that it would be a blow for junior teams to lose a player and it would hurt them financially and as a team. I never ever said it wouldn't. And you'd get the same opinion from every coach and GM in the CHL. Developing players EVERYWHERE is what he ( him , Bob,  Nicholson , Bob Nicholson , President of Hockey Canada ) was talking about when discussing upping the age to 19. 

    Bob Nicholson is the voice behind this idea. How many times do you have to be told he doesn't get a paycheck from junior hockey ? It's his idea. What he is saying has nothing to do with what CHL coaches, GM's or owners think about it. His thoughts are about developing players. You are getting Hockey Canada and the CHL confused. They are seperate.
     
    Tory also says this regarding the reasons behind Nicholsons idea . Didn't you read it ?
      
                                                          ------
    "I think there's merit to what Bob's talking about," said Bob Tory, general manager of the Tri-City Americans. "He's looking at the big picture on the process of development and making sure that maybe we can develop better players not only for world junior teams, but for the NHL as well."
                                       
                                                         -------

    Why is it so difficult for you to understand that he doesn't benefit from this and wants the game to be developed all across the world including Europe and U.S. players ? That's what his thoughts are regarding his proposal and if you don't believe it oh well. You must know a lot about the man after one morning of knowing him.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruWingFan. Show BruWingFan's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    No, don't raise the draft age. 

    It's in Hockey Canada and the CHL's best interest to keep these players in Junior for another season. You think that Hall and Seguin's junior teams would have loved to have them back for another season? They sell tickets and ticket sales = profits. Would another season of Junior helped them develop better? I highly doubt it. 

    I would like the NHL teams to have the opportunity to send an 18 year old player to the AHL for a stint to see how they adapt. Similar to the 10 game trial at the beginning of the NHL season. Give them the oportunity for another 10 games in the AHL, then make the decision to keep him or send him back to Junior. The pro game has a learning curve and the sooner these players get accustomed to the demands, on and off the ice, of professional hockey the better. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? :                                            ------- Why is it so difficult for you to understand that he doesn't benefit from this and wants the game to be developed all across the world including Europe and U.S. players ? That's what his thoughts are regarding his proposal and if you don't believe it oh well. You must know a lot about the man after one morning of knowing him.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    This brings me back to my point.  Why would PLAYER A develop better playing as an overager in the CHL as opposed to the AHL?

    And yes, he does benefit from it.  It's his job.  Or, maybe I'm wrong.  Does he volunteer there and not collect a paycheck?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    This brings me back to my point. Why would PLAYER A develop better playing as an overager in the CHL as opposed to the AHL?

                                                        -------
    Does this mean that I'm exposed and still dead wrong before we talk about your point ? Yes or no ? And if you still think so why ?

    And give me a break . He gets paid to do his job like anyone of us. Giving this idea has nothing to do with benefiting from it. He is doing his job. Really dumb comment Nas . Sheesh !
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    Man this is frustrating to read, mostly because it's not this black and white.

    Hockey Canada governs amateur hockey in Canada - so international competition, hockey in communities, coaching standards, officiating standards, sledge hockey etc.  That means Bob Nicholson is invested in junior players sticking around to the degree that they are available to the World Junior team and other amateur competitoins that make money for Hockey Canada and community hockey programs around the country.  It's not as clear what his mandate is to support the businesses that are Major Junior teams.  There are no links on their website to any of the major junior leagues.  You don't have to be Grapes, though, to see the value of kids having a place to play that fits their skill level, so you know Nicholson sees the value of healthy Jr. franchises.

    The question is around "development" really and not who cuts Bob's cheque.  The word was uttered in relation specifically to the NHL draft and the age at which kids are claimed.  So it means specifically developing toward a potential career in the NHL.  This is where it gets very gray as to how much this would help young players develop or develop more than if they could go to the AHL at 18.  The short answer is the one about the health of the Junior leagues making them the key player pipeline, but you could come back and say "isn't it better for more kids if the guys who are ready to play the pro game at 18 give up their key roles and ice time to other guys who might use that time to...develop?

    I think it's a complicated question.  Business necessities aren't easy to separate from the "good of the game" arguments.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    "This is where it gets very gray as to how much this would help young players develop or develop more than if they could go to the AHL at 18."

    I keep seeing going to AHL on this thread .  Man, very frustrating for me to keep reading this. That's another topic on changing the age limit for going there. No mention of doing that in this article.

    Also add university and professional to the list of what Hockey Canada governs.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]And give me a break . He gets paid to do his job like anyone of us. Giving this idea has nothing to do with benefiting from it. He is doing his job. Really dumb comment Nas . Sheesh !
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Okay, so he does benefit from this. 

    His job is to improve hockey in Canada, but is it also to improve Canadian hockey players?

    I think Jared Knight would benefit more from playing in the AHL this season against professional men than playing against little kids in the OHL.  This year will most likely do very little for him in terms of development, but will certainly sell more tickets in London.

    If they raise the draft year to 19, who stands to benefit the most?  CHL team owners.  By the way, I was searching but couldn't find the answer to this question:  Who hired Bob Nicholson?


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : Okay, so he does benefit from this.  His job is to improve hockey in Canada, but is it also to improve Canadian hockey players? I think Jared Knight would benefit more from playing in the AHL this season against professional men than playing against little kids in the OHL.  This year will most likely do very little for him in terms of development, but will certainly sell more tickets in London. If they raise the draft year to 19, who stands to benefit the most?  CHL team owners.  By the way, I was searching but couldn't find the answer to this question:  Who hired Bob Nicholson?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Nicholson trying to improve the development of hockey for all junior aged players in leagues around the world is a lot different then insinuating he will benefit financially by suggesting this. It helps the whole junior hockey world. 

    I would like to jump in on your Knight comments but this isn't cleared up yet.
    Am I still exposed as dead wrong ( and a joke too ) ? Yes or no ?

    And who hired Nicholson ? Not the CHL.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    There you go. A board of governors. You've learned a lot today about Nicholson and Hockey Canada . You're welcome !

    http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/10121/la_id/1.htm
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]There you go. A board of governors. You've learned a lot today about Nicholson and Hockey Canada . You're welcome ! http://www.hockeycanada.ca/index.php/ci_id/10121/la_id/1.htm
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    And on that list is a large amount of people who benefit from the success of the CHL.  Of course, the success of the CHL is zero if it isn't profitable.  Of course, it isn't profitable if ticket sales are low.  Of course, ticket sales will be higher if they have better players.

    It all comes back to money.  If Bob Nicholson puts the leagues into the red with his decisions, he won't be back.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : Nicholson trying to improve the development of hockey for all junior aged players in leagues around the world is a lot different then insinuating he will benefit financially by suggesting this. It helps the whole junior hockey world.  I would like to jump in on your Knight comments but this isn't cleared up yet. Am I still exposed as dead wrong ( and a joke too ) ? Yes or no ? And who hired Nicholson ? Not the CHL.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Who said he would benefit financially from it?

    Keep digging.

    And yes, if you think Nicholson is acting for the benefit of hockey and not money, you're a fool.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    Book, nice analysis.  My point is solely if the NHL and the Canadian Junior Leagues want juniors to be a developmental league then let 18 year olds sign NHL contracts, get paid ( no cap restrictions ), and go where they wish... NHL, AHL, or juniors.  Libertarian point of view, also mindful that individuals can make money as well.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]Yeah, you might be right but I think there are all kinds of players that would improve by leaps and bounds between the ages of 15-19 and there would also be many others that flop. Imagine you're the GM that thought drafting a 15 year old Kabanov would be a good idea?
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Kabanov's actually been the opposite of what you assert.  He's been great in Lewiston and very active in their community.  The Islanders love him too.

    HP has him ranked above Niederreitter, and 14th among all the top NHL prospects.

    Islander prospects

    Top 100 NHL prospects.

    Honestly Deza, idk where you come up with some of your analogies.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age? : Kabanov's actually been the opposite of what you assert.  He's been great in Lewiston and very active in their community.  The Islanders love him too. HP has him ranked above Niederreitter, and 14th among all the top NHL prospects. Islander prospects Top 100 NHL prospects. Honestly Deza, idk where you come up with some of your analogies.
    Posted by bim09[/QUOTE]
    So you're implying that someone would've been pleased had they used a "special pick" in order to secure the rights to Kabanov? His stock fell by leaps and bounds. People in Boston would be upset had PC wasted a pick on that clown. I honestly don't know why you want to keep trying this Bim. Kabanov is widely considered to be a bust considering where he was ranked as a teen. Believe me, it's no surprise that you have trouble grasping where I was going with the analogy but you failing to get it doesn't mean it's wrong. As a matter of fact, it probably gives it more credibilty.
    BTW, where do you get your "info"? Hockey's Future has him listed as 8th best NYI prospect(Nino is #1). Fail! Fail! Fail!
    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/kirill_kabanov

    He's not even in the NHL's top 50 prospects.....
    http://www.hockeysfuture.com/hockey_top_50_prospects/

    Honestly Bim, does being wrong ever get old for you?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    Why don't you try supporting your assertions with some concrete facts instead of conjecture.  But you're entitled to your opinion, i guess.

    The fact that you don't think he's an NHL talent doesn't mean he's a bust.  And making claims that he's "been widely considered to be a bust" doesn't make it credible either.

    And when is a 3rd round pick ever considered a high value, special pick?  As a matter of fact, i remember seeing many here supporting a late round chance on him if PC had the pick.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE] And when is a 3rd round pick ever considered a high value, special pick?  As a matter of fact, i remember seeing many here supporting a late round chance on him if PC had the pick.
    Posted by bim09[/QUOTE]

    When they are supposed to go in the first round, drop to the third round and Newsday writes this about you:

    "Perceived as a top-end talent with a shaky reputation, Kabanov's stock dropped on several draft boards once teams became aware of some key details. He was cut from the Russian Under-18 team this spring, dropped by his agent, J.P. Barry, before the draft, and had a strained relationship with his junior team, the Moncton Wildcats of the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League."
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Raise The Draft Age?

    In Response to Re: Raise The Draft Age?:
    [QUOTE]Why don't you try supporting your assertions with some concrete facts instead of conjecture.  But you're entitled to your opinion, i guess. The fact that you don't think he's an NHL talent doesn't mean he's a bust.  And making claims that he's "been widely considered to be a bust" doesn't make it credible either. And when is a 3rd round pick ever considered a high value, special pick?  As a matter of fact, i remember seeing many here supporting a late round chance on him if PC had the pick.
    Posted by bim09[/QUOTE]
    A concrete fact is that Kabanov was rated to be a high 1st rounder whose stock plummeted in the months leading up to the draft. That's neither theory nor conjecture. My opinion doesn't change this in any way shape or form. On the one hand, you don't understand the analogy of a GM being upset to waste a "special pick" on Kabanov and then on the other hand, you call him just a 3rd rounder. Typical of you to try to set me straight and when that fails, try to turn the debate into something else. If you don't know what I mean when referencing a "special pick" then I suggest reading the entire thread before commenting as no one else seemed confused by the(hypothetical)concept. Yeah,we get it. You tried to tell everyone how awesome Kabanov would eventually be and so far it hasn't panned out. Nothing you can say or write today can change that. Thanks again for "correcting" me.
     

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