Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--rankings--the-top-30-starting-goalies-in-the-nhl-154114642.html

    1. Jonathan Quick, Los Angeles

    2. Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers

    3. Pekka Rinne, Nashville

    4. Tuukka Rask, Boston

    5. Sergei Bobrovsky, Columbus Corey Crawford, Chicago

    6. Mike Smith, Phoenix Ryan Miller, Buffalo

    7. Carey Price, Montreal

    8. Roberto Luongo, Vancouver Jimmy Howard, Detroit

    9. Cam Ward, Carolina Craig Anderson, Ottawa

    10. Corey Crawford, Chicago Roberto Luongo, Vancouver

    11. Craig Anderson, Ottawa Cam Ward, Carolina

    12. Cory Schneider, New Jersey Mike Smith, Phoenix

    13. Ryan Miller, Buffalo James Reimer, Toronto

    14. Jimmy Howard, Detroit Antii Niemi, San Jose

    15. Jonas Hiller, Anaheim

    16. Kari Lehtonen, Dallas

    17. Niklas Backstrom, Minnesota

    18. Brian Elliott, St. Louis

    19. Braden Holtby, Washington

    20. James Reimer, Toronto Sergei Bobrovsky, Columbus

     

    Bobrovsky even in the top ten was hilarious. Big Cam Ward fan but he needs to stay healthier so he drops. Don't like Niemi, never have. Mike Smith in the top 10 was another joke.

    Two years ago Roberto Luongo was better than Jimmy Howard, not now. I don't care about any of the ones outside the top 20.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Bobrovsky just won the Vezina - how is having him in the top ten a joke? Explain that to me.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Luongo shouldn't be Top 10.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    Bobrovsky just won the Vezina - how is having him in the top ten a joke? Explain that to me.



    One season. A lockout shortened one where he wasnt even the starter. Going ot need more of a 38 game sample.

    I like your ranking San, except I would keep Miller over Reimer.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Bobrovsky just won the Vezina - how is having him in the top ten a joke? Explain that to me.



    One season. A lockout shortened one where he wasnt even the starter. Going ot need more of a 38 game sample. 

    I like your ranking San, except I would keep Miller over Reimer.[/QUOTE]


    Yah it looks like I switched them out but I put Miller in the top ten. Thank you for answering Reds question, did not like Bobrovsky's stats in Philly.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Has any goalie since Hextall had good stats in Philly? They could pick up Sawchuk or Roy in their primes and the moment they touched Philly ice they'd turn into Blaine Lacher.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Bob is 63-33   played over 50 games 3 seaosn ago, just played an unreal 38 games season this year.   How is his sample size any different.  The fact it was on a terrible BJ team and a so-so Philly team strengthens his stance.   He has 2 seasons that are better then any Rask year. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     

    Bobrovsky just won the Vezina - how is having him in the top ten a joke? Explain that to me.



    One season. A lockout shortened one where he wasnt even the starter. Going ot need more of a 38 game sample. 

     

    I like your ranking San, except I would keep Miller over Reimer.




    Yah it looks like I switched them out but I put Miller in the top ten. Thank you for answering Reds question, did not like Bobrovsky's stats in Philly.

    [/QUOTE]

    If this is true, then why does Crawford get bumped to the top 5?  Emery put up nearly identical stats in Chicago this year, and if you take away this one year of limited games, he's basically a goalie with a .910 S% and a 2.50 GAA.  He had a great playoff run.  That seems to be the only difference.  That and the fact the Bobrovsky was the Vezina winner for that shortened season and Crawford wasn't even nominated.

    Quick at the pinnacle also makes me think that the playoffs are being given a lot of weight - and fair enough.  Any list that doesn't emphasize the playoffs would have Fleury ahead of a few of those guys.  Either way though - Reimer is way too high.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 



    Stop it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Here's my list.

    1. Jonathan Quick, Los Angeles

    2. Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers

    3. Bobrovsky- Columbus

    4. Rinne- Nashville

    5. Rask- Boston

    6. Anderson- Ottawa

    7. Niemi- San Jose

    8. Howard- Detroit

    9. Miller- Buffalo

    10. Ward- Carolina

    11.  Luongo- Canucks

    12. Price- Montreal

    13. Niklas Backstrom, Minnesota

    14.  Jonas Hiller, Anaheim

    15. Kari Lehtonen, Dallas

    16. Reimer- Toronto

    17. Brodeur- New Jersey

    18. Crawford- Chicago

    19. Emery- Philly

    20. Schiender- New Jersey

     I got these in an order of their overall body of work. Bob won a Vezina on what was supposed to be a very weak team. That body of work counts for something in my book. Price has done NOTHING but regressed imo. I can't place a goalie with one series win in 6 seasons a top 10 ranking. Especially after being drafted 5th overall. He's not shown me to be a difference maker at all. 

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 

     



    Stop it.

     



    Only 8 more years to put up with though Fletch.........

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 

     



    Stop it.

     



    Serious question.  If you put bobs best 2 yrs against rasks what are the numbers.  And Bob didnt play for the best defensive team in hockey.  Bob also just won the vezina.   he played 54 gms in 10-11 season going 28-13.  Similar to Rask in his season.  And 21-11 in 38 gms this year in columbus.  He also went 14-10 in his worst year.  Similar to Rask.  

    If you are putting rask ahead of him what is it based on And why?   People are saying his body of work or sample size.  Someone needs to explain to me how a 66-33 record a vezina is worst then 66-45 While playing for an avg team and a below avg team.  

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Bobrovsky just won the Vezina - how is having him in the top ten a joke? Explain that to me.

    One season. A lockout shortened one where he wasnt even the starter. Going ot need more of a 38 game sample. 

    I like your ranking San, except I would keep Miller over Reimer.

    Yah it looks like I switched them out but I put Miller in the top ten. Thank you for answering Reds question, did not like Bobrovsky's stats in Philly.[/QUOTE]

    If this is true, then why does Crawford get bumped to the top 5?  Emery put up nearly identical stats in Chicago this year, and if you take away this one year of limited games, he's basically a goalie with a .910 S% and a 2.50 GAA.  He had a great playoff run.  That seems to be the only difference.  That and the fact the Bobrovsky was the Vezina winner for that shortened season and Crawford wasn't even nominated. [/QUOTE]


    Why didn't Emery start then ?

    Nothing or no one says you can't use playoff stats. How was Bob against the Blackhawks in 2010 SCF ? I am using my own judement as well on Bob, Niemi, Smith and Luongo.

    And I wouldn't have Fluery in the top 40 of my list, based on regular season or playoff stats plus my own eyes.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Is there a goalie assembly line in factory somewhere in Finland?  Rask, Rinne, Backstrom, Rammo, Lethtonen and Niemi might say yes.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    Is there a factory with a goalie assembly line in it over in Finland?  Rask, Rinne, Backstrom, Rammo, Lethtonen and Niemi might say yes.



    Kipper wasn't bad either. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Remember when it was Quebec?  There have always been goalies from Quebec like Plante, Vachon, Lemelin, but after Roy hit big in '86 and the whole cult of Allaire kicked off, you had a generation of goalies who were supposed to be the King.  Some, like Brodeur and, to a lesser or thickly padded extent, Giguere, have been what they were hyped to be.  Others, like Denis, Fichaud, Fiset, Potvin, Berthiaume, and others I've forgotten will be asterisks (well, Leaf fans will remember Felix).  The last gasp seems to be Fleury and Luongo, who rode the highest crest of that Quebec goalie hype to the very top of the draft.  One has a Cup and a highly paid psychologist; the other is highly paid and needs a good psychologist.

    Quick - last French Canadian goalie to go in the first round....

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

     

     



    Stop it.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Serious question.  If you put bobs best 2 yrs against rasks what are the numbers.  And Bob didnt play for the best defensive team in hockey.  Bob also just won the vezina.   he played 54 gms in 10-11 season going 28-13.  Similar to Rask in his season.  And 21-11 in 38 gms this year in columbus.  He also went 14-10 in his worst year.  Similar to Rask.  

    If you are putting rask ahead of him what is it based on And why?   People are saying his body of work or sample size.  Someone needs to explain to me how a 66-33 record a vezina is worst then 66-45 While playing for an avg team and a below avg team.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm not getting sucked back into this but the difference is plainly clear to see.  Let's start with consistency.  You want to cherry pick out two years, because that's the only way your argument works.  That's just the problem with Bobo - you gotta pick the good years. 

    Bobo is up and down, with good and bad years (.899 save% in 11-12).  Rask isn't.  He's always been very good.  As a backup, as a starter, short season, long season.  It doesn't matter.  Always consistent.  Historic stats over his first 100 NHL games.  That's the difference.

    Or maybe you need playoff performance to get in the top ten with some judges.  Boborovsky has been awful in the playoffs.  Awful.  Rask is still top notch in the playoffs, whether you look at the stats, or you look at getting a team to a Stanley Cup finals.

    And sure, you can come up with a bunch of qualifiers like small sample size or Toronto game 7 or whatever, but if you're asking why one guy would be in the top ten and the other guy wouldn't -- the answer is plain to see for anyone who is looking.

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    From SanDog

    Why didn't Emery start then ?

    Nothing or no one says you can't use playoff stats. How was Bob against the Blackhawks in 2010 SCF ? I am using my own judement as well on Bob, Niemi, Smith and Luongo.

    And I wouldn't have Fluery in the top 40 of my list, based on regular season or playoff stats plus my own eyes.

    'Cause Crawford is a better long-term solution and Emery wasn't better - just comparable.  Emery has injury and head-case history.

    My point was that you said you dropped Bobrovski because you didn't like his stats from his time in Philly - and his second year was just awful. But that same year, Crawford just barely kept his S% over .900 in the regular season, and was sub .900 in the playoffs.  His GAA was in the 2.72 range.  So that explanation for why you'd drop Bobrovski and elevate Crawford didn't make sense, especially when Bobrovsky won the Vezina this year and Crawford wasn't even nominated.  But, if you base it on his great playoff run - something you can't compare for Bobrovski 'cause, well, Columbus... - then maybe I could see it. 

    That was also my point about Fleury.  He's had respectable regular season numbers on an offense oriented team, but keep him away from the playoffs.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    Quick - last French Canadian goalie to go in the first round....

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!




    Off the top of my head, Fleury?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

     

    Is there a factory with a goalie assembly line in it over in Finland?  Rask, Rinne, Backstrom, Rammo, Lethtonen and Niemi might say yes.

     



    Kipper wasn't bad either. 

     

     



    You're right, nite.  Who knows where the Flames would be as a franchise if not for him over the years.  I was thinking only of those listed in the article.  And whatever became of Vesa Toskala?  http://youtu.be/AW1NsnolUT0

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

     

    Quick - last French Canadian goalie to go in the first round....

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     




     

    Off the top of my head, Fleury?




    And before him, Luongo.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

     

     



    Stop it.

     

     



    Serious question.  If you put bobs best 2 yrs against rasks what are the numbers.  And Bob didnt play for the best defensive team in hockey.  Bob also just won the vezina.   he played 54 gms in 10-11 season going 28-13.  Similar to Rask in his season.  And 21-11 in 38 gms this year in columbus.  He also went 14-10 in his worst year.  Similar to Rask.  

    If you are putting rask ahead of him what is it based on And why?   People are saying his body of work or sample size.  Someone needs to explain to me how a 66-33 record a vezina is worst then 66-45 While playing for an avg team and a below avg team.  

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm not getting sucked back into this but the difference is plainly clear to see.  Let's start with consistency.  You want to cherry pick out two years, because that's the only way your argument works.  That's just the problem with Bobo - you gotta pick the good years. 

    Bobo is up and down, with good and bad years (.899 save% in 11-12).  Rask isn't.  He's always been very good.  As a backup, as a starter, short season, long season.  It doesn't matter.  Always consistent.  Historic stats over his first 100 NHL games.  That's the difference.

    Or maybe you need playoff performance to get in the top ten with some judges.  Boborovsky has been awful in the playoffs.  Awful.  Rask is still top notch in the playoffs, whether you look at the stats, or you look at getting a team to a Stanley Cup finals.

    And sure, you can come up with a bunch of qualifiers like small sample size or Toronto game 7 or whatever, but if you're asking why one guy would be in the top ten and the other guy wouldn't -- the answer is plain to see for anyone who is looking.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Fletch seriously.  Are 11-14 after rasks so called full season of 40 games stellar?   How about 11-8?  Are these the numbers you are talking about.  And in front of the best defensive team in hockey.  

    Bob has over 50 games and played 38 this year.  

    Oh this one magical run this year.  Was he amazing against the leafs?  Not really. I thought he played a few great games.  How about the rangers?  Didnt need to be.  Team was rolling.  i give him full marks for the pitt series.  How about the final.  One win in three gms at home.  Crawford was chewed apart for winning 6-5.  So one magical run and one epic collapse.  But the loss against philly is on the team but the 4-0 sweep against the pens was rasks brilliance.  So for this one run to the cup is validation and the failure is not on rask.  

    point is this.  Rask sample size is no different then bobs.  Bob has a better win loss record.  head to head in best yrs go to bob.  And in bobs worse year he still was 14-10 not a losing record.  

    columbus blue jackets.  always in the mix for the lottery pick.  Bob has them fighting for playoffs in the last week.  He easily deserved the vezina.  

    All i am trying to point out is that a few people are pointing out small sample size for bob.  Isnt it the same for rask.  Their numbers are pretty darn close if you ask me.  

    How you can see a difference that clearily is staggering.  I see mirror images   Minus the one playoff success.  But i also see bob as missing the best shutdown dman maybe ever to play and the best defensive team in the league to pad stats.  

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    Here's my list.

    1. Jonathan Quick, Los Angeles

    2. Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers

    3. Bobrovsky- Columbus

     I got these in an order of their overall body of work. Bob won a Vezina on what was supposed to be a very weak team. That body of work counts for something in my book. Price has done NOTHING but regressed imo. I can't place a goalie with one series win in 6 seasons a top 10 ranking. Especially after being drafted 5th overall. He's not shown me to be a difference maker at all.




    You think Bob stays consistent and keeps last seasons stats or close to it ?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     


    Fletch seriously.  Are 11-14 after rasks so called full season of 40 games stellar?   How about 11-8?  Are these the numbers you are talking about.  And in front of the best defensive team in hockey.  

    Bob has over 50 games and played 38 this year.  

    Oh this one magical run this year.  Was he amazing against the leafs?  Not really. I thought he played a few great games.  How about the rangers?  Didnt need to be.  Team was rolling.  i give him full marks for the pitt series.  How about the final.  One win in three gms at home.  Crawford was chewed apart for winning 6-5.  So one magical run and one epic collapse.  But the loss against philly is on the team but the 4-0 sweep against the pens was rasks brilliance.  So for this one run to the cup is validation and the failure is not on rask.  

    point is this.  Rask sample size is no different then bobs.  Bob has a better win loss record.  head to head in best yrs go to bob.  And in bobs worse year he still was 14-10 not a losing record.  

    columbus blue jackets.  always in the mix for the lottery pick.  Bob has them fighting for playoffs in the last week.  He easily deserved the vezina.  

    All i am trying to point out is that a few people are pointing out small sample size for bob.  Isnt it the same for rask.  Their numbers are pretty darn close if you ask me.  

    How you can see a difference that clearily is staggering.  I see mirror images   Minus the one playoff success.  But i also see bob as missing the best shutdown dman maybe ever to play and the best defensive team in the league to pad stats.  

     



    Never said Bobo didn't deserve the Vezina.  Agreed on a small sample size for both.  Agreed that both are good.

    Differences: Consistency.  Playoffs.  (don't know how else to say it -- that is the difference. Nitpick at it all you want; it's there.)

    Rask's career save % is 10 points higher too.

    I'd put Rask at #3-5; Bobo at #10-12

     
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