Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    Oh this one magical run this year.  

     




    P.S. How can you harp endlessly on the small sample size with Rask, and then say "Oh, that ONE magical playoff run..."??  

    You can't rip him for having such a small sample size and then rip him for not having accomplished things multiple times over in the same argument.

    This is sounding more and more like you're married to a certain agenda with Rask and will grasp at any argument that you think gets you there. 

    Between the "small sample size" argument and the "Rask hasn't repeated his accomplishments enough" argument, you'll have to pick one or the other.  To try to argue both, at the same time, is utterly illogical.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    There's not a single GM in the league who would take Bobo over Rask if given the choice. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    There's not a single GM in the league who would take Bobo over Rask if given the choice. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    Yeah, that too.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

     

    Oh this one magical run this year.  

     

     




     

    P.S. How can you harp endlessly on the small sample size with Rask, and then say "Oh, that ONE magical playoff run..."??  

    You can't rip him for having such a small sample size and then rip him for not having accomplished things multiple times over in the same argument.

    This is sounding more and more like you're married to a certain agenda with Rask and will grasp at any argument that you think gets you there. 

    Between the "small sample size" argument and the "Rask hasn't repeated his accomplishments enough" argument, you'll have to pick one or the other.  To try to argue both, at the same time, is utterly illogical.

     



    I concur with your last post.   The magical run is based on two samples I am left to feed off. One was a flub job of epic smellery.   The other was a fantastic job.  So no bob doesnt have the one great playoff run.  He also hasnt blown a 3-0 lead.  and he plays for columbus not the bruins.  Hes on a lottery team. Rask has 10% in save percent, rasks winning percentage isnt as good and remember the teams involved bruins or cbj     So the fact you view one playoff success and cant consider the other factors in the argument means?   

    Zero agenda against rask or bob.  I think rasks the better goalie.  But on sample size alone im not sure how you can rank one in top 5.  The other out of the top 10.  I dont think enough is known about either.  The only agenda is well known In terms of the contract.  But this wasnt about that.  I saw people writing that bobs sample size is too small.  ive stated that rasks sample size s too small in past weeks and was told the numbers dont lie.  Yet the vezina winner with a 500 w/l record who just had a lottery team in the running for the playoffs doesnt have enough on the resume.  Does rask get the cbj in the playoffs?  Does bob get us to the cup considering his play this year?   who knows.  

    i realize when i wrote this it may get viewed this way.  But i was seriously curious how people could give that logic after lecturing me about rasks consistancy and numbers.  Then say bob hasnt done enough.   I think thats a fair question to ask.  

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    There's not a single GM in the league who would take Bobo over Rask if given the choice. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    dez you are probably right.  But when you consider contracts i think you may have more gms lean bobs way.  His play this year was mvp worthy.  His numbers absolutely disgusting.  His previous full season also posted a fantastic w/l record.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    There's not a single GM in the league who would take Bobo over Rask if given the choice. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     



    dez you are probably right.  But when you consider contracts i think you may have more gms lean bobs way.  His play this year was mvp worthy.  His numbers absolutely disgusting.  His previous full season also posted a fantastic w/l record.  

     



    More gms meaning a few.  I still think more would lean rasks way.  I wouldnt say all 30 teams though.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 




    Whats Bobrovsky like in the playoffs?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    How is Rask in top 10 if Bob isnt?  The same arguments I give against Rask you are using against Bob. 

     




    Whats Bobrovsky like in the playoffs?

     



    I answered that.  Whats rask like?   awful one great the next?  Whats rask like in front of an ahl team?  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    I would not call Rask awful in 2010 playoffs. Yes the Philly thing but to put it all on him would be incorrect. Rask led the league in save percentage and g.a.a that year as well. If Bobrovsky has a very good season next year, I'd have no problem putting him higher.

    As for Crawford, and I think he's a very good goalie, not as good as Rask but a very good one. But for me what hurts him the most is his back up went 17-1. Weird, but I hold it against him.




     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Rask beat a 103 point Buffalo team in 2010 with no puck possession in front of him.


    http://flyers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475683&season=20102011&view=gamelog

    May 06 '11   PHI @ BOS  L  3  25 22 .880

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Rask beat a 103 point Buffalo team in 2010 with no puck possession in front of him.


    http://flyers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475683&season=20102011&view=gamelog

    May 06 '11   PHI @ BOS  L  3  25 22 .880

     

     

     



    And lost a 3-0 series lead to a team with 88 pts, an ahl goalie and good players missing.  In that same year halak beat the caps and pitt who were mega powers.  Hows he doing now?   

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    Rask beat a 103 point Buffalo team in 2010 with no puck possession in front of him.


    http://flyers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475683&season=20102011&view=gamelog

    May 06 '11   PHI @ BOS  L  3  25 22 .880



    And lost a 3-0 series lead to a team with 88 pts, an ahl goalie and good players missing.  In that same year halak beat the caps and pitt who were mega powers.  Hows he doing now? [/QUOTE]

    You are right about that, the Bruins had some good players missing against Bob's team. And the too many men on the ice was also Tuukkas fault as well.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    Rask beat a 103 point Buffalo team in 2010 with no puck possession in front of him.


    http://flyers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8475683&season=20102011&view=gamelog

    May 06 '11   PHI @ BOS  L  3  25 22 .880



    And lost a 3-0 series lead to a team with 88 pts, an ahl goalie and good players missing.  In that same year halak beat the caps and pitt who were mega powers.  Hows he doing now?


    You are right about that, the Bruins had some good players missing against Bob's team. And the too many men on the ice was also Tuukkas fault as well.

     



    He had a 3-0 lead in the series and in gm 7.  Philly played 4 def the entire playoffs in front of ahl goalies and were missing carter.  

    I wouldnt blame it completely on him, but after gm 5 i would have gone to TT.   TT beat the Philly team the next year and won conn and cup.  

     

 
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    I would not call Rask awful in 2010 playoffs. Yes the Philly thing but to put it all on him would be incorrect. Rask led the league in save percentage and g.a.a that year as well. If Bobrovsky has a very good season next year, I'd have no problem putting him higher.

    As for Crawford, and I think he's a very good goalie, not as good as Rask but a very good one. But for me what hurts him the most is his back up went 17-1. Weird, but I hold it against him.





    kelv, i dont think he will be remembed for beating buffalo that year.   Im sure he would lower that save percentage for one more win.   stats wise his year was very sound, it ended with a thud.   Ive explained my goalie stance on the zack thread i hi jacked.  I need a bdc vacation.  

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

     

    Here's my list.

    1. Jonathan Quick, Los Angeles

    2. Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers

    3. Bobrovsky- Columbus

     I got these in an order of their overall body of work. Bob won a Vezina on what was supposed to be a very weak team. That body of work counts for something in my book. Price has done NOTHING but regressed imo. I can't place a goalie with one series win in 6 seasons a top 10 ranking. Especially after being drafted 5th overall. He's not shown me to be a difference maker at all.




     

    You think Bob stays consistent and keeps last seasons stats or close to it ?



    Doesn't matter if he does or not. He's the reigning Vezina winner that means he was voted as the best goaltender in the league. If he played for Detroit & put up those #'s I wouldn't be as impressed & probably wouldn't put him that high for a rank. However, considering who he was playing for & what his #'s say he deserves accolades for it. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    another thought.  5 of those top 10 are canadian yet we wont win the 2014 gold bc our goalies stink.   

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Hi, I'm Chris Pronger.  You might remember me from such roles as "Stanley Cup Finalist in Edmonton!" and "Crown Them Ducks!" and most recently "Unlikely Finals Appearance in Philly!"

    Bobrovsky's best year was this year: 38gp, 2.00 .932

    Rask's best year was 2010: 45gp, 1.97 .931.  This year, he was 36gp, 2.00GAA and .929% or two fewer games and .002% behind the eventual Vezina winner.

    Bobrovsky's worst year was last year: They tried to start him, but he couldn't hold the job racking up a 3.02 and .898 in 29 games.  Much of that before Pronger was concussed.  And Bryzgalov, behind the same lineup, shaved half a goal and was .010 better.

    Rask's worst year was the year he had hip issues.  He was 2.67 and .918 in 29 games.

    In terms of sample size, Bobrovsky had played two years before this year: one was respectable (2.59, .915) the next baaad.  Then he had this year out of the blue - a full half goal and .015 better than anything he'd shown previously.  Three of the last four years, Rask has been between 1.97 and 2.05 GAA and .929 and .931.  I don't really care what the win numbers are because it's a team stat.  That's consistent performance and completely different than Bobrovsky's erratic line.  It illustrates a point I've tried to make before - a goalie can get hot for a season and then go loopy the next, so if he plays 70 games in his hot season and is sent to the AHL by December in the second, I don't care if he played 70 games or 40: he's a guy who got luck.  I guy who consistently turns in the same calibre of performance across multiple seasons is, to my mind, more likely a legit talent than a guy who got lucky. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    the whole "i don't like what he did a few years ago" argument is crap when it comes to goaltending. Goaltending is a world of "what have you done for me lately?" A few years ago a lot of the goalies taht are far down would have been top 3. Bobs could have won the MVP this year (and should have). Having him outside the top 5 would be an error. Outside the top 8 would be horrible. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "Hi, I'm Chris Pronger.  You might remember me from such roles as "Stanley Cup Finalist in Edmonton!" and "Crown Them Ducks!" and most recently "Unlikely Finals Appearance in Philly!"

    Bobrovsky's best year was this year: 38gp, 2.00 .932

    Rask's best year was 2010: 45gp, 1.97 .931.  This year, he was 36gp, 2.00GAA and .929% or two fewer games and .002% behind the eventual Vezina winner.

    Bobrovsky's worst year was last year: They tried to start him, but he couldn't hold the job racking up a 3.02 and .898 in 29 games.  Much of that before Pronger was concussed.  And Bryzgalov, behind the same lineup, shaved half a goal and was .010 better.

    Rask's worst year was the year he had hip issues.  He was 2.67 and .918 in 29 games.

    In terms of sample size, Bobrovsky had played two years before this year: one was respectable (2.59, .915) the next baaad.  Then he had this year out of the blue - a full half goal and .015 better than anything he'd shown previously.  Three of the last four years, Rask has been between 1.97 and 2.05 GAA and .929 and .931.  I don't really care what the win numbers are because it's a team stat.  That's consistent performance and completely different than Bobrovsky's erratic line.  It illustrates a point I've tried to make before - a goalie can get hot for a season and then go loopy the next, so if he plays 70 games in his hot season and is sent to the AHL by December in the second, I don't care if he played 70 games or 40: he's a guy who got luck.  I guy who consistently turns in the same calibre of performance across multiple seasons is, to my mind, more likely a legit talent than a guy who got lucky. 




    I guess you forgot Rask has Chara and the best defensive team of the last 5 yrs.   Something Bob did not have.   Rask had a losing record of 8-11.  and followed it with a 14-10   Far from a stellar win loss.  Can you name the CBJ top 6 def without looking?  I can't name their top 4. 

    My pt is you can take Bob's top two yrs and compare them to Rask.  They are similar.   Bob never had a losing season either(although very bad in a 14-10 season).   Bob also played 38 games this year to Rasks 29.   Zero rest and a packed shortened season.   I look at w/l the same way you guys look at save %.  I also look at the teams we are talking about.  

     

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL


    Again, shupe - you remember that Chris Pronger guy, right?  Has as many Norris trophies as Chara, same number of Cups and same number of Cup Finals appearances as the Horse?  That's the team Bob played in front of for his first two years, or at least his first year and then the first 12 games of the second, which was enough for him to soil himself and lose the job to Bryzgalov.

    I can name Jack Johnson, whose been excellent for them since he got there; Tyutin,  who I remember because he was a Ranger just like half their roster after the Nash and Gaborik deals, and "Wiz" for obvious reasons.  I can also point out that the 'Jackets improved their defensive hockey significantly by changing the character of their lineup between when they were a top 5 pick contender and when they were edged out of the playoffs by the Red Wings. 

    You're really reaching with the W-L record thing (and I don't get why you're comparing Rask's 29 game season to Bobrovsky's 38 game season when Rask played 36 games this year and had nearly identical stats).  You can hang your argument on that as much as you want, but you'll never convince me that a goalie with a 1.9 GAA and a .930% isn't a better goalie than the guy with the .905% and the 2.40 GAA just because the second guy has a better record.  You know why?  Here's a goalie who also had his best year in a lockout shortened year and came out of almost nowhere to do it.  Guy played 35 games, went 19-11-2 (almost identical to Bobrovsky), but his GAA was 2.41 and his s% .902.  Sound good?  See, that's ol' Let'emin Lacher.  And that's why most people don't judge goalie performance based on W/L. 

    Your premise is just flawed. The two had almost identical stats this year, but this is actually Rask's second best year after 2010 when he had an even better GAA on the worst scoring Bruins team in the history of the franchise.  You never want to mention that when you're going on about Rask playing for the vaunted Bruins and their defensive scheme.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    Great points by both sides here.  (Team Shupe vs. Team The Rest Of the World)  Shupe's tireless efforts to shed light on his points come to fruition in this thread, while others hold their ground well.

    This is one of the best discussions in a while.

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    another thought.  5 of those top 10 are canadian yet we wont win the 2014 gold bc our goalies stink.  


    I tried to move as many Canadians out of the top 10 for Americans as possible but started to run into backups.

    Good catch

    You and your goalies still stink Wink

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Great points by both sides here.  (Team Shupe vs. Team The Rest Of the World)  Shupe's tireless efforts to shed light on his points come to fruition in this thread, while others hold their ground well.

    This is one of the best discussions in a while.




    Shupe vs World.   haha. 

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    another thought.  5 of those top 10 are canadian yet we wont win the 2014 gold bc our goalies stink.  



    I tried to move as many Canadians out of the top 10 for Americans as possible but started to run into backups.

     

    Good catch

    You and your goalies still stink Wink




    I actually chuckled when I saw who u were crossing out.  You are a Yankee Doodle Dandy

     
  • You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Rankings: The top 30 starting goalies in the NHL

    There isn't a goalie in the world I'd take over Rask right now.  I'm not just saying that as a Bruins fan, I'm usually harder on Boston goaltending.  I just don't think anyone is playing better.

     
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