Response To NAS's Marchand post..

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    I gotta agree with Bruce Boudreau on this one. If you don't like the hits don't come to the games. So Marchand elbowed a guy. It's a physical sport. Things get nasty. He has crossed the line a few times and hey, like Matt Cooke and Sean Avery maybe thats his game. Krejci cross checked a guy in the neck last night. Last time the B's played Tampa, Seidenberg cross checked a guy who was coming towards him full speed right in the face, to the point where the guy's feet came out from under him. Lucic cross checked one of them on the side of the head, blatantly.When Looch plays physical his whole game is better,  It's a rough sport, you do what you have to do.

    How many 90 plus mile fast balls did Pedro throw at peoples temples? Call him dirty, call him a headhunter, but also call him one of the best pitchers ever who did it during the steroid era who did what he felt was necesarry for him to get HIS edge.he HAD to strike fear into opponent hitters. If he didn't his numbers would have suffered. His teammates went up there all the time wondering if there was going to be one at their head in retaliation. Pedro said, If they don';t like it go play beer league softball. Its the major leagues.

    Do you realize what happens at the bottom of a football scrum in the NFL?  Eyes are poked,crotches are grabbed and legs are bitten.
    And for those who say, theres no place in the game for this, Yes there is. It's part of the game, always will be.
    Some people can't play unless they toe that line all the time.When you toe it all the time you WILL cross it.It makes them better players.Ronnie Lott wouldn't have it any other way. Seek and destroy, and his mates loved him for it. Matt Cooke is revered in his locker room, just made alternate captain. What was the Rangers record after Avery left the first time. They had to go get him back.  Claude Lemieux. Dirty as they come, how many rings does he have?
    If Marchand needs to get nasty, then so be it. You have a choice as to whether you want to watch.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    kelvanna,

    don't bring a baseball to a hockey fight.

    I hear what you are saying.  I am not a huge Marchand fan for his extra-curricular activity and cheap play.  If he calms that down he is valuable.  If he doesnt he will get labeled quickly.  He isn't Lapierre, but we saw how many teams want him.  When Lapierre plays his game he is useful.  When he hits guys like Nichol he is a rat.  In fact he is a rat.  But he has skill. 

    I don't want Marchand to develop into this and he is making a path in that direction. 

    Hockey is a violent sport and has always had its bad guys.  I like a good clean hit.  Problem is every single hit is under the mircoscope now.  10 yrs ago we never would have been talking about this.  Scott Stevens made a living outta head hunting. He did target the head.  As I said the term "BELL RUNG" was a part of hockey.  Keep your head up.  Know who's on the ice.  Brett Hull said it perfectly.  Is Matt Cooke my most hated athlete.  YES 100 times over.  But Savy should have known he was out there.   Not blaming Savy.  But if he could do it over he
    a. has an elbow sandwich waiting ala Messier-Howe
    b. doesnt admire his pass
    c. is in better position on the ice.
    d. all of the above
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Marchand as cooke and every dirty player needs to be rewarded for there garbabe hockey with suspensions.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Dumb post. Really dumb.
    The point isn't that hockey isn't a violent game-of course it is-it's that there is a distinct difference between playing the game in a hard, physical style, and playing dirty-players know it, as do knowledgeable fans.
    The problem is, the NHL has sat by while players such as Lemieux, Dale Hunter, Ulf Samuelsson, Bryan Marchment ( dating myself) Cooke, Avery, et al, took a toll some of the best players in the game by failing to properly punish thuggery.   ( And no, I didn't think Chara's hit warranted punishment)
    The point is well-taken that an aggressive player will sometimes cross the line. However, most of the players you mentioned habitually go out of their way to hurt other players.
    What's the real point of your post? That if Ray Bourque played dirtier he would have won more Cups like Lemieux?
    I will continue to watch, and hope that Brad Marchand wises up to the fact that playing hard, even chippy, doesn't have to mean playing dirty. It cheapens the team.  How much sympathy do you have when Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby whine about dirty hits when they do embrace a player like Matt Cooke? It nullifies their argument completely.

    Somewhere between Habs' fans hysterics and retrograde thinking like this, there has to be a point where reasonable minds can accept that the game can be played hard (who honestly wants to see less hitting?) without accepting players who either can't or won't stop crossing the line.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Clearly not intelligent enough to get the meaning of my post...if you think the real point of my post was suggesting if Ray Bourque played dirty he would have won more cups, then please, don't read or comment on my posts.

    n Response to Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..:
    [QUOTE]Dumb post. Really dumb. The point isn't that hockey isn't a violent game-of course it is-it's that there is a distinct difference between playing the game in a hard, physical style, and playing dirty-players know it, as do knowledgeable fans. The problem is, the NHL has sat by while players such as Lemieux, Dale Hunter, Ulf Samuelsson, Bryan Marchment ( dating myself) Cooke, Avery, et al, took a toll some of the best players in the game by failing to properly punish thuggery.   ( And no, I didn't think Chara's hit warranted punishment) The point is well-taken that an aggressive player will sometimes cross the line. However, most of the players you mentioned habitually go out of their way to hurt other players . What's the real point of your post? That if Ray Bourque played dirtier he would have won more Cups like Lemieux? I will continue to watch, and hope that Brad Marchand wises up to the fact that playing hard, even chippy, doesn't have to mean playing dirty. It cheapens the team.  How much sympathy do you have when Mario Lemieux and Sidney Crosby whine about dirty hits when they do embrace a player like Matt Cooke? It nullifies their argument completely. Somewhere between Habs' fans hysterics and retrograde thinking like this, there has to be a point where reasonable minds can accept that the game can be played hard (who honestly wants to see less hitting?) without accepting players who either can't or won't stop crossing the line.
    Posted by er877[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Ohh, Ouch!!
    Sorry my use of a rhetorical question threw you off! Obviously, you're operating on far too high an intellectual plane to have time for such  pedestrian usage.

    Let me see if I can grasp the profoundly complex argument you've put forth:
    There will always be marginally talented players who take liberties in the game, there's nothing to be done about it, and I should just accept this irrefutable truth and move on.

    You're right,Kelvana,I just can't hang with such a brilliant outpouring of undeniable logic. I guess I will banish myself to the mental hinterlands by not reading or responding to your posts, all the while wishing I had your truly exceptional analytical skills.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Your still not getting it. Was Pedro marginally talented? Ronnie Lott?

    Keep watching, one day, maybe, you'll be at my level. One day.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Well, you've outdone me again, even if you can't spell.

    I was limiting my response to hockey, since I was having such a hard time pentrating the awsome depth of your genius. I'll have to echo shuperhuman and say I'm not even considering the apples/oranges ramifications of including baseball and football in a hockey discussion. Again, I'll have to bow to your superior intellect. I promise I won't read or respond anymore.

    BTW, I never considered Ronnie Lott dirty, just ridiculously tough-the dude finished a game after LOSING HIS PINKY!

    And as far as Pedro goes....... I think it was the three plus pitches he commanded rather than the hit batsmen that made him truly great. I think half the guys he hit were actually in the strikezone, though he certainly wasn't above a message pitch- just not at the temples so much. ( Karim Garcia is the only one I really recall in that neighborhood.) Can't blame him really, with roided up hitters in body armor hanging/diving over the plate.  It was the stuff, not the HBP's, that did the job, and it still has nothing to do with dirty play in hockey. But I'm pretty dumb.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Putting arguing aside, Jonsey brings up a good point. Marchand didn't even get a penalty, but he will be called because it was caught on camera.
    My point is, it's always been a part of the game and always will be. Gordie Howe is celebrated and regerded as one of the greatest players to ever play. yet he was the probably the dirtiest player of all-time. What if Gordie had cameras on him back then. He wouldnt have any records vause he would have been suspeneded half the time. How many points did he score because so many people were afraid of him?? My father has seen him play so many times says he makes Sean Avery look like a church goer.
    Take Dany Heatley. You see that elbow to Ott last night? Is he dirty? Do you realize how much abuse and cheap shots Steve ott has taken on him that go unseen? He aint gonna fight Ott. he'd get whooped. He took a stand, and I bet Ott is a little hesitant should they meet come playoff time.
    About 10 years ago the B's were playing the Kings and Sean Avery was all over Joe Thornton. Every trick in the book was being used. Finally Avery gets a penalty (dating myself) and Marty Lapointe skates over to the box and tells Avery knock it off or he is leaving in a stretcher. His exact words. Marty also said he'll take the suspension, he doesn't care. My point is, and i may have strayed from the hockey side is, dirty play is part of some peoples games. Without it they can't preform at their desired level. Go see Crosby. best player on the planet, and he whines the whole game. it helps him, or atleast he thinks it does. To him, that buys him space..he says it so the refs hear it and the opposing players hear it. Funny to see it too.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from er877. Show er877's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    I guess all I'm really getting at is, do the crime, do the time. Marchand deserves a couple games off. More to the point, I realize some guys feel the need to resort  to dirty play to survive....I just don't like them on my team.

    And if Gordie Howe wore today's elbow pads, he would have KILLED people.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    If Marchand does get his two game suspension, perhaps the Montreal fans will have their pound of flesh and this 'Chara hit' saga will fade away...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    Hockey is a tough sport but it also has honor.  Marchand took a shot at a vulnerable player's head, that shouldn't be OK.  The Paccioretty-Chara play was vastly different in that Max was not vulnerable... he could have slowed down if he chose.  It's tough game but classless plays should always be punnished.  Comparing to Baseball is rediculous.  I've always thought it was pathetic when pitchers tried to bean players.  Very cowardly.  You stand there while I throw a ball at you.  Baseball is nothing like hockey.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    I don't think there was any intent on the play. Umberger is a big guy and was lower to the ice because he put himself in that position. Still, it was a hit to the head and players need to take responsibility. I think Marchand has needed to sit a game or two anyway... too many dumb penalties. I bet he gets 2.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from huscroft28. Show huscroft28's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    In Response to Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..:
    [QUOTE]don't bring a baseball to a hockey fight.  As I said the term "BELL RUNG" was a part of hockey.  Keep your head up.  Know who's on the ice.  Brett Hull said it perfectly.  Is Matt Cooke my most hated athlete.  YES 100 times over.  But Savy should have known he was out there.   Not blaming Savy.  But if he could do it over he a. has an elbow sandwich waiting ala Messier-Howe b. doesnt admire his pass c. is in better position on the ice. d. all of the above
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Don't bring made up facts to a hockey argument.

    Savard was not making a pass, therefore not admiring it.  How could he have been in a better position on the ice - to score - isn't that the objective in a 2-1 game in the 3rd.  Watch the play again  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z1vJrIAg-0  before assuming you know all.  Savard had released a shot and was in his follow through when he was obliterated (and that may be very true, depending on whether he plays again) from the side and behind.  Cooke makes zero attempt at body-to-body, it's shoulder to head, nothing else.  Don't compare Cooke to Stevens - Stevens looked for the green light hit, face-to-face, at the top of the defensive zone, and would stand up to any challenger afterwards.  I'm sure many loved to hear Mark Stuart, as our top draft pick, say he modeled his game after Stevens'.  Cooke looks for the red light hit to the back of the head and won't stand up.  He's a dirty coward and he's the player, along with Avery and Ott, that the NHL needs the least, if the NHL is truly about getting rid of headshots.  Marchand should probably get a game suspension, but he's a young, impulsive pest.  A ridiculous argument.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    What's the point of this thread?  Did you think your reponse was so good/important that it would have been a disservice to all of us if you had responded to the actual thread?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Response To NAS's Marchand post..

    wasn't calling you out NAS, just saying no matter what you do to deter it, it will always be there. I don't like it, but it's laways been there. I'd say less of it happens now, just more of a focus on it.
     
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