Ryan Miller on the move ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    This is the best line in Jay Feaster's bio on Wikipedia: "Though he had no background in hockey, Feaster preferred working with the hockey team, and quickly joined the organization as the assistant to the team's president..."

    No.  Background.  In.  Hockey.

    Now, he was the GM of record for the Lightning's only cup win, but how much credit can you give the guy?  He was assistant to Demers and Dudley, but only took the reins in 2002.  Here's the guys who were already in place in 2002: Richards, Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal, Andreychuk, Kubina, Modin, Boyle, Khabibulin, Afanasenkov, Tim Taylor, Sarich, Dingman.  He added Sydor, Fedotenko and Stillman.  Stillman was their second-leading scorer in the regular season, but had only 7 points in the Cup run.  Sydor had less impact than Kaberle had for Boston.  Fedotenko was good that playoffs with 12 goals.  1 of 3.  Tortorella was already hired.  What exactly did Feaster do to get credit here?  And in his tenure, they drafted 4 guys who would pay 200+ NHL games.  Most are marginal at best - Tarnasky, Lundin, Paul Ranger.  The exception was when they had completely crapped out from Cup team to worst team in hockey.  Then they got Stamkos.  (If you give PC credit for Kessel, Marchand and Lucic, he also has 4 - Seguin's the other.  He might end up with more if any of the prospects develop.  Feaster's prospects are pretty much timed out by now.)

    Why did Calgary hire this guy?!?!?  As bad as they were after the Phaneuf deal, he has managed to find ways to make them worse.  How?  I...I...I just don't know.

    The way this guy scorches the earth for franchises, the Feaster Famine will be a known term soon.  Regier looks like Bowman next to him.  And like Trotz, the longer you're someplace, the more you can get out of "what have you done for me lately?" territory and into "bird in the hand."  That is, if you have a guy who built a Cup finalist and a few other teams that have gone deep, all on a budget, you might keep him rather than risk hiring the next Jay Feaster.

     

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    Two mistakes in the past year were alarming to me.  One was the Ryan O'Reilly offer sheet, which was later exposed for having overlooked a basic rule where O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers before joing the Flames, where he would have undoubtedly been picked up by another team.  This would happen afterthe Flames sent a bounty to the Avs for the offer sheet.  It would have been an unprecedented screwup for a GM in any sport.

     

    Then there's the Iginla trade, where Feaster didn't even seem capable of saving face, after admitting openly to the press that the best offer on the table was refused so that his player (who had already provided a list of accpetable teams!) could chose which location was preferable.  A perfect example of inept, even unethical, management when your loyalty is supposed to lie with your employer and any trade should be based solely on the best return for that employer.  Why would any GM ever grant a player final veto power over an organizational move, after waiving the NMC and providing a list of acceptable destinations?

    Both seem unforgivable to me.  Add that to the general track record you describe, and yeah, he's the worst GM in the league.

    I like the "Feaster famine".  Good stuff.  I'll also admit that I laughed at "Alberta's babbling brook" yesterday though...sorry.  I've never seen Sandog weave such a poetic limerick...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to seobrien's comment:

    I'm dead serious here...can anyone explain to me how Darcy Regier still has his job???


    ----proud member of the ZTT taskforce-----



    I'd take Regier over Gillis! 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to seobrien's comment:

     

     

    Another great example, Red (Wideman 4 years left at $5.25 mil???), but Regier is still at another level.  He sent Ruff out to slaughter (I don't dispute that Ruff had to go, though) even though he was the one who spent Pegula's cash in the worst way imaginable, and now is orchestrating the dismissal of the best player in team history and still getting to manage the rebuild is simply amazing to me.  I guess the question is...how did Regier convince Pegula that Ruff was the problem and that he should be allowed to continue overseeing the well being of this franchise when he decided it was a good idea to pay 9 mil a year for Erhoff and Myers through 2019!!??? It boggles the mind.

    I am so happy the Bruins have Chiarelli.

     



    Nothing against Miller, but when your team has had players like Hawerchuk, Housley, Andreychuk, Mogilny, Rick Martin, Rene Robert, Danny Gare and, most notably, Pat Lafontaine, Dominik Hasek, and Gilbert Perrault, you can't even come close to calling Miller the best player in  team history.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to seobrien's comment:

     

     

    Another great example, Red (Wideman 4 years left at $5.25 mil???), but Regier is still at another level.  He sent Ruff out to slaughter (I don't dispute that Ruff had to go, though) even though he was the one who spent Pegula's cash in the worst way imaginable, and now is orchestrating the dismissal of the best player in team history and still getting to manage the rebuild is simply amazing to me.  I guess the question is...how did Regier convince Pegula that Ruff was the problem and that he should be allowed to continue overseeing the well being of this franchise when he decided it was a good idea to pay 9 mil a year for Erhoff and Myers through 2019!!??? It boggles the mind.

    I am so happy the Bruins have Chiarelli.

     



    Nothing against Miller, but when your team has had players like Hawerchuk, Housley, Andreychuk, Mogilny, Rick Martin, Rene Robert, Danny Gare and, most notably, Pat Lafontaine, Dominik Hasek, and Gilbert Perrault, you can't even come close to calling Miller the best player in  team history.

     



    AGREE 1000,000%. Miller's been great for that team, but seo certainly had a major brainfart making that statement! 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

    [QUOTE]


    AGREE 1000,000%. Miller's been great for that team, but seo certainly had a major brainfart making that statement! 

     




    Yeah, you could make an argument that both Hawerchuk and Housley had their best seasons with the Jets (though Housley played longer for the Sabres, 3 of his 5 best seasons were in the Peg) or that Mogilny wasn't there long enough, but you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Miller deserves to be noted above any of the others on that list, even LaFontaine with all his injuries during his Sabres years. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    This is the best line in Jay Feaster's bio on Wikipedia: "Though he had no background in hockey, Feaster preferred working with the hockey team, and quickly joined the organization as the assistant to the team's president..."

    No.  Background.  In.  Hockey.

    Now, he was the GM of record for the Lightning's only cup win, but how much credit can you give the guy?  He was assistant to Demers and Dudley, but only took the reins in 2002.  Here's the guys who were already in place in 2002: Richards, Lecavalier, St.Louis, Prospal, Andreychuk, Kubina, Modin, Boyle, Khabibulin, Afanasenkov, Tim Taylor, Sarich, Dingman.  He added Sydor, Fedotenko and Stillman.  Stillman was their second-leading scorer in the regular season, but had only 7 points in the Cup run.  Sydor had less impact than Kaberle had for Boston.  Fedotenko was good that playoffs with 12 goals.  1 of 3.  Tortorella was already hired.  What exactly did Feaster do to get credit here?  And in his tenure, they drafted 4 guys who would pay 200+ NHL games.  Most are marginal at best - Tarnasky, Lundin, Paul Ranger.  The exception was when they had completely crapped out from Cup team to worst team in hockey.  Then they got Stamkos.  (If you give PC credit for Kessel, Marchand and Lucic, he also has 4 - Seguin's the other.  He might end up with more if any of the prospects develop.  Feaster's prospects are pretty much timed out by now.)

    Why did Calgary hire this guy?!?!?  As bad as they were after the Phaneuf deal, he has managed to find ways to make them worse.  How?  I...I...I just don't know.

    The way this guy scorches the earth for franchises, the Feaster Famine will be a known term soon.  Regier looks like Bowman next to him.  And like Trotz, the longer you're someplace, the more you can get out of "what have you done for me lately?" territory and into "bird in the hand."  That is, if you have a guy who built a Cup finalist and a few other teams that have gone deep, all on a budget, you might keep him rather than risk hiring the next Jay Feaster.

     

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    OMG that is the best line I have read in these spaces in years.   "Feast"er or famine!!  (Bold Italics) great post book!

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I think the Avs would be happy to get out from under Stastny's contract; in fact, I though that was your logic until you said "overpay".

    You do have to look a little beyond the obvious on this, though.  Is there a team out there that has a #1, but not an Olympic Invitee?  A clever GM might look at his goaltending situation and think that Miller is too much of an upgrade to pass up even if it's a hassle to move/placate his existing guy. I could have seen the same with Rask if there was a team with the cap space to carry two #1s for a while.  If Rask was a) seen as an upgrade and b) a long term solution where the incumbent might be a UFA soon? 

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    I dont think that scenario works anywhere book.  2 number 1 goalies didnt work in van.  the leafs will find out soon enough.  So a team lands miller.  Has 2 number one guys for a while and then?   The value on high money goalies via trade simply is not there.   Id be more interested in TT or Bryz.   Costs about 1/5 of what miller would cost.  

    You realize i put very little value into goalies.   I think millers prime is expired.  Still a fantastic goalie.  But not many contending teams can afford him or need him.  Calgary doesnt need miller. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    I think the Avs would be happy to get out from under Stastny's contract; in fact, I though that was your logic until you said "overpay".

    You do have to look a little beyond the obvious on this, though.  Is there a team out there that has a #1, but not an Olympic Invitee?  A clever GM might look at his goaltending situation and think that Miller is too much of an upgrade to pass up even if it's a hassle to move/placate his existing guy. I could have seen the same with Rask if there was a team with the cap space to carry two #1s for a while.  If Rask was a) seen as an upgrade and b) a long term solution where the incumbent might be a UFA soon? 

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    I dont think that scenario works anywhere book.  2 number 1 goalies didnt work in van.  the leafs will find out soon enough.  So a team lands miller.  Has 2 number one guys for a while and then?   The value on high money goalies via trade simply is not there.   Id be more interested in TT or Bryz.   Costs about 1/5 of what miller would cost.  

     

    You realize i put very little value into goalies.   I think millers prime is expired.  Still a fantastic goalie.  But not many contending teams can afford him or need him.  Calgary doesnt need miller. 



    Oh, yeah - you'd go into it knowing that you're unloading your other guy, and you're not going to get a lot for him.  That's the hassle.  But you'd be upgrading the #1 position the way Detroit did by bringing in Hasek right after they'd acquired Joseph.  They ended up sending Joseph to the minors and winning a Cup with Hasek.  That's the precedent I'm thinking of.  You wouldn't want to carry two #1s unless the guy you already had was completely happy to be second fiddle and cash first string cheques.  That's why the TT or Bryz scenario doesn't really work with what I'm suggesting - both are huge question marks, not a guaranteed upgrade.  But yes, if you dodn't think a world class goalie is a prerequisite for winning, then you probably don't go this route.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:



    Two mistakes in the past year were alarming to me.  One was the Ryan O'Reilly offer sheet, which was later exposed for having overlooked a basic rule where O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers before joing the Flames, where he would have undoubtedly been picked up by another team.  This would happen afterthe Flames sent a bounty to the Avs for the offer sheet.  It would have been an unprecedented screwup for a GM in any sport.

     Then there's the Iginla trade, where Feaster didn't even seem capable of saving face, after admitting openly to the press that the best offer on the table was refused so that his player (who had already provided a list of accpetable teams!) could chose which location was preferable.  A perfect example of inept, even unethical, management when your loyalty is supposed to lie with your employer and any trade should be based solely on the best return for that employer.  Why would any GM ever grant a player final veto power over an organizational move, after waiving the NMC and providing a list of acceptable destinations?

    Both seem unforgivable to me.  Add that to the general track record you describe, and yeah, he's the worst GM in the league.

    I like the "Feaster famine".  Good stuff.  I'll also admit that I laughed at "Alberta's babbling brook" yesterday though...sorry.  I've never seen Sandog weave such a poetic limerick...



    Okay, first, that was a stupid line - I don't even live in Alberta anymore! [SanDog on his game - always fun even if you're the target]

    The worst part of these two faults is that the go right to the heart of what, I would imagine, are Feaster's "strengths".  If you think of a GM as someone who has to have an eye for both management / scouting talent and for hockey talent, and then as a guy who makes good strategic decisions on the business and contracts side, you might say a GM without a background in hockey can work if he has the right scouting staff and personnel advisors. You might hire him even if you know he can't judge talent because he's creative and strategic in managing the team.  But this is two instances that have nothing to do with talent evaluation.  Everyone agreed that Boston offered better prospects for Iginla, but because Feaster didn't get a binding list of teams from Iginla, the player still had the contract right to make his own decision.  And everyone would want Ryan O'Reilly, but you would expect a lawyer to know the rules and deadlines affecting an offer sheet and adding a player to your roster.  He didn't.  He blew lawyerly, manager-y decisions.  Moron.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:



    Two mistakes in the past year were alarming to me.  One was the Ryan O'Reilly offer sheet, which was later exposed for having overlooked a basic rule where O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers before joing the Flames, where he would have undoubtedly been picked up by another team.  This would happen afterthe Flames sent a bounty to the Avs for the offer sheet.  It would have been an unprecedented screwup for a GM in any sport.




    Does this not mean the Avalanche could have let him accept the offer sheet and then claimed him first given they were one of the worst teams in the NHL?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to lambda13's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Two mistakes in the past year were alarming to me.  One was the Ryan O'Reilly offer sheet, which was later exposed for having overlooked a basic rule where O'Reilly would have had to clear waivers before joing the Flames, where he would have undoubtedly been picked up by another team.  This would happen afterthe Flames sent a bounty to the Avs for the offer sheet.  It would have been an unprecedented screwup for a GM in any sport.

     

     




    Does this not mean the Avalanche could have let him accept the offer sheet and then claimed him first given they were one of the worst teams in the NHL?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yes, theoretically.  But I doubt he would have gotten past anyone on waivers.  Any team would take him even if they didn't want him, as his trade value was high.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Ryan Miller on the move ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:


    Okay, first, that was a stupid line - I don't even live in Alberta anymore! [SanDog on his game - always fun even if you're the target]

     

    The worst part of these two faults is that the go right to the heart of what, I would imagine, are Feaster's "strengths".  If you think of a GM as someone who has to have an eye for both management / scouting talent and for hockey talent, and then as a guy who makes good strategic decisions on the business and contracts side, you might say a GM without a background in hockey can work if he has the right scouting staff and personnel advisors. You might hire him even if you know he can't judge talent because he's creative and strategic in managing the team.  But this is two instances that have nothing to do with talent evaluation.  Everyone agreed that Boston offered better prospects for Iginla, but because Feaster didn't get a binding list of teams from Iginla, the player still had the contract right to make his own decision.  And everyone would want Ryan O'Reilly, but you would expect a lawyer to know the rules and deadlines affecting an offer sheet and adding a player to your roster.  He didn't.  He blew lawyerly, manager-y decisions.  Moron.



    Exactly.  If we exclude the hockey side of the business, because he has no hockey background (which still seems problematic to me), than he'd better be an incredibly shrewd lawyer, manager, delegator, cap geek, marketeer...etc.  But he isn't.  

    I'm left to wonder, exactly what part of being a GM is he good at?  And he still seems pretty smug and entitled about his position.  He should be more like the fat girl at the prom -- grateful just to be there.  It's fleeting, Jay.

     

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