Sam Gagner what a joke

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from G4ck5. Show G4ck5's posts

    Sam Gagner what a joke

    Apparently Sam Gagner is trying to get 5.5 mill a year in arbitration. What has he really done to ask for that much money? Thats a little south of Lucic cash not saying Lucic is paid correctly either but at least Lucic has had a 30 goal season and also a 20 goal season. I think this kid is crazy to think he should get that and the arbitration board is crazy to give it to him.

     

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=428062

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    Hes a good second line center.  Not great but sweet hands.  He will get 5m in my eyes

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    Can't blame a guy for asking for it but if someone pays him that they are a true fool. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to stan17's comment:

    Can't blame a guy for asking for it but if someone pays him that they are a true fool. 



    Ala rask.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

                                          "sweet hands. in my eyes"

     

    That's either Frazier muttering to Ali during one of there bouts, an Allman Brothers lyric or a name of a song from "AM Gold CD box set" LoL





     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    I wouldn't even say he's a good second line centre.  He's a streaky but average second line centre.  He's put up points the last couple of years when given the chance to play with Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky.  He has never topped the 49 points he had as a rookie who started right out of the draft.  He's also not a player like Bergeron or Lucic who is more than his point totals. His game is producing points; he's a 43% faceoff guy as a centre.  He doesn't hit or play physical hockey.  He's not fast.  He's a lot like his dad, but unlike his dad, he doesn't have 5 seasons of 30+ goals on his resume.

    On the other hand, if you look at this past year?  17th in scoring by centres.  Half a dozen points clear of Bergeron ($6.5M after next year) and ahead of Couture, Mikko Koivu, Jeff Carter, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, Jamie Benn, David Krejci and Jordan Staal.  He might just get that number by citing these guys as his comparables.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    Wouldn't common sense suggest that a player should over reach going into arbitration? The team is going to try lowballing too aren't they?


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    Wouldn't common sense suggest that a player should over reach going into arbitration? The team is going to try lowballing too aren't they?


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    Not in boston.  Start at the highest.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I wouldn't even say he's a good second line centre.  He's a streaky but average second line centre.  He's put up points the last couple of years when given the chance to play with Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky.  He has never topped the 49 points he had as a rookie who started right out of the draft.  He's also not a player like Bergeron or Lucic who is more than his point totals. His game is producing points; he's a 43% faceoff guy as a centre.  He doesn't hit or play physical hockey.  He's not fast.  He's a lot like his dad, but unlike his dad, he doesn't have 5 seasons of 30+ goals on his resume.

    On the other hand, if you look at this past year?  17th in scoring by centres.  Half a dozen points clear of Bergeron ($6.5M after next year) and ahead of Couture, Mikko Koivu, Jeff Carter, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, Jamie Benn, David Krejci and Jordan Staal.  He might just get that number by citing these guys as his comparables.

     

     

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    Id agree with all of this.   But i watch a lot of oiler games and he gives it his all every night.  And for a guy who has been traded a 1000 times id want some security as well. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In some ways, it's more damning that he seems to play his heart out and still can't crack the points production Ryder has averaged over his lazy-arsed career. 

    I agree re: he owes them nothing.  Not sure that he gets security through arbitration - one year on a $5.5 deal isn't great security, and if the Oil walk?  MacT is nuts, so it could happen if he thinks it saves him cash to acquire a better veteran centre.  Unlikely, sure.  But he should push for the top of his market value and see where the chips fall.  As dez points out, the abritrator can't give you more than you ask for.  If the arbitrator looks and says hey, this guy scored more than David Krejci last year, so he should be paid like Krejci, and Gagner goes in asking for $4.75M?  Screwged.

    As for your ... disquiet ... about the Bruins' contract strategies - this team got ripped at home and abroad for low-balling every player they ever had from Orr (blah blah blah the Eagleson fiasco blah blah blah - the Bruins still get ripped for letting that happen) to Bourque, to Neely, to Oates, to Allison, to Thornton....  Now they have a GM who has consistently given contracts that look high at the start and play out as very good in the long term.  Thomas's Conn Smythe and Vezina for a $5M cap hit was a good example.  Chara's deal is still a sweet deal if you look at Weber, Suter.  Lucic's deal is on par with Dustin Brown's, and they're comparable players over the course of their careers to date.  Market deal.  Chiarelli doesn't try to stick it to players to get a little more cap space.  And if I'm a player, I want to play for a franchise that a) will pay what the market will bear if you give them what you got; b) doesn't say "save me some money so I can replace you or another one of the guys you're supposed to be tight with".  There's a small element of this where you see a guy like Bergeron agree to take a little less so other guys who are part of the core can get paid too, but they took care of him, too.  I prefer this way.  I think it's smart.  I think it's how winners operate now.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In some ways, it's more damning that he seems to play his heart out and still can't crack the points production Ryder has averaged over his lazy-arsed career. 

    I agree re: he owes them nothing.  Not sure that he gets security through arbitration - one year on a $5.5 deal isn't great security, and if the Oil walk?  MacT is nuts, so it could happen if he thinks it saves him cash to acquire a better veteran centre.  Unlikely, sure.  But he should push for the top of his market value and see where the chips fall.  As dez points out, the abritrator can't give you more than you ask for.  If the arbitrator looks and says hey, this guy scored more than David Krejci last year, so he should be paid like Krejci, and Gagner goes in asking for $4.75M?  Screwged.

    As for your ... disquiet ... about the Bruins' contract strategies - this team got ripped at home and abroad for low-balling every player they ever had from Orr (blah blah blah the Eagleson fiasco blah blah blah - the Bruins still get ripped for letting that happen) to Bourque, to Neely, to Oates, to Allison, to Thornton....  Now they have a GM who has consistently given contracts that look high at the start and play out as very good in the long term.  Thomas's Conn Smythe and Vezina for a $5M cap hit was a good example.  Chara's deal is still a sweet deal if you look at Weber, Suter.  Lucic's deal is on par with Dustin Brown's, and they're comparable players over the course of their careers to date.  Market deal.  Chiarelli doesn't try to stick it to players to get a little more cap space.  And if I'm a player, I want to play for a franchise that a) will pay what the market will bear if you give them what you got; b) doesn't say "save me some money so I can replace you or another one of the guys you're supposed to be tight with".  There's a small element of this where you see a guy like Bergeron agree to take a little less so other guys who are part of the core can get paid too, but they took care of him, too.  I prefer this way.  I think it's smart.  I think it's how winners operate now.

     

     

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    Exactly what I was thinking but not as intelligent as you to translate it to words. Well said.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to shuperman's comment:


    Not in boston.  Start at the highest.  



    And starting in goal for the Bruins tonight:  Salary cap room!

    I'll take Rask at $7M instead.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    And starting in goal for the Bruins tonight:  Salary cap room!

     

    I'll take Rask at $7M instead.




    Not so fast... what kind of Save% and GAA does cap room have?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    I wouldn't even say he's a good second line centre.  He's a streaky but average second line centre.  He's put up points the last couple of years when given the chance to play with Hall, Eberle, Yakupov, Hemsky.  He has never topped the 49 points he had as a rookie who started right out of the draft.  He's also not a player like Bergeron or Lucic who is more than his point totals. His game is producing points; he's a 43% faceoff guy as a centre.  He doesn't hit or play physical hockey.  He's not fast.  He's a lot like his dad, but unlike his dad, he doesn't have 5 seasons of 30+ goals on his resume.

    On the other hand, if you look at this past year?  17th in scoring by centres.  Half a dozen points clear of Bergeron ($6.5M after next year) and ahead of Couture, Mikko Koivu, Jeff Carter, Brad Richards, Mike Richards, Jamie Benn, David Krejci and Jordan Staal.  He might just get that number by citing these guys as his comparables.

     

     

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    BB, do you see him comparable in ability to Bozak who got $21 million over 5 years from the Leafs? 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Can't blame a guy for asking for it but if someone pays him that they are a true fool. 

     



    Ala rask.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Goalies get payed and should not underachieving forwards, bad comparison.   

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to stan17's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to stan17's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    Can't blame a guy for asking for it but if someone pays him that they are a true fool. 

     

     



    Ala rask.  

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Goalies get payed and should not underachieving forwards, bad comparison.   

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Yet a backup gets 7m and is highest paid goalie in the league.   Never played a full season.  

    Did you not just watch the ufa frenzy.   Bickell makes crazy cash for a good playoff run.  So i guess rask does as well.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


    Not in boston.  Start at the highest.  

     



    And starting in goal for the Bruins tonight:  Salary cap room!

     

    I'll take Rask at $7M instead.

    [/QUOTE]

    You would take semin as well.   

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In some ways, it's more damning that he seems to play his heart out and still can't crack the points production Ryder has averaged over his lazy-arsed career. 

    I agree re: he owes them nothing.  Not sure that he gets security through arbitration - one year on a $5.5 deal isn't great security, and if the Oil walk?  MacT is nuts, so it could happen if he thinks it saves him cash to acquire a better veteran centre.  Unlikely, sure.  But he should push for the top of his market value and see where the chips fall.  As dez points out, the abritrator can't give you more than you ask for.  If the arbitrator looks and says hey, this guy scored more than David Krejci last year, so he should be paid like Krejci, and Gagner goes in asking for $4.75M?  Screwged.

    As for your ... disquiet ... about the Bruins' contract strategies - this team got ripped at home and abroad for low-balling every player they ever had from Orr (blah blah blah the Eagleson fiasco blah blah blah - the Bruins still get ripped for letting that happen) to Bourque, to Neely, to Oates, to Allison, to Thornton....  Now they have a GM who has consistently given contracts that look high at the start and play out as very good in the long term.  Thomas's Conn Smythe and Vezina for a $5M cap hit was a good example.  Chara's deal is still a sweet deal if you look at Weber, Suter.  Lucic's deal is on par with Dustin Brown's, and they're comparable players over the course of their careers to date.  Market deal.  Chiarelli doesn't try to stick it to players to get a little more cap space.  And if I'm a player, I want to play for a franchise that a) will pay what the market will bear if you give them what you got; b) doesn't say "save me some money so I can replace you or another one of the guys you're supposed to be tight with".  There's a small element of this where you see a guy like Bergeron agree to take a little less so other guys who are part of the core can get paid too, but they took care of him, too.  I prefer this way.  I think it's smart.  I think it's how winners operate now.

     

     

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    I dont think rask or bergies deal or charas are going to look good in the end.  Its the risk you take to lock them up.  I think 5 yr deals should be the max.  8 yrs for a goalie is just dumb.  Chara will be 400 when his deal expires.  

    gagner should get 7m like semin.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     


      8 yrs for a goalie is just dumb.    

     

     



    I'm of the opinion that locking up a goalie when he's entering his prime years is a smart thing to do. He will not be .......as you suggest of his past ......... having backup goalie status during these years.

    The new NHL is signing players on potential . Rask's contract is no different then others regarding that thought.

    Nice move by PC.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     


      8 yrs for a goalie is just dumb.    

     

     



    I'm of the opinion that locking up a goalie when he's entering his prime years is a smart thing to do. He will not be .......as you suggest of his past ......... having backup goalie status during these years.

    The new NHL is signing players on potential . Rask's contract is no different then others regarding that thought.

    Nice move by PC.

     



    I will agree with your post.  But hate long term deals.  Its my opinion only.  I dont like long term deals.  I understand it from both sides but cant stand them.  And i really hate goalie contracts.  The first time he goes down with an injury im gonna have to deactivate my account.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     


    But hate long term deals.   

     

     

     



    That's a fair thought. Anything can happen in 8 years........injury, dropoff in performance level etc.

    Obviously PC didn't worry about these possible scenarios when he signed Rask. He is looking at it from a positive standpoint........injury free and a high level of play from Rask in coming years.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    The thing I don't understand, shupe?  You're so bent on this.  Just SO bent.  And I cannot figure out why - every argument someone presents to you, you come back to "it's just my opinion".  Cap Space is the most over rated player in the league.  That bill of good about having to have cap space so you can make that sweetheart move at the deadline that will be the key to a Cup is so bogus Keanu Reaves is suing it for copyright infringement.  For all Brian Burke's flaws, his point about teams that need to make big acquisitions at the deadline being flawed in October makes a lot of sense. 

    Carpe the schist out of the diem, shupe.  The long term deals make the Bruins a contender next year and anywhere from the next 2 years to the next six or seven.  If Chara declines rapidly, Rask loses his focus, and Bergeron gets injured, well, we'll see how they manage.  But they'll manage.

     

     

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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    The thing I don't understand, shupe?  You're so bent on this.  Just SO bent.  And I cannot figure out why - every argument someone presents to you, you come back to "it's just my opinion".  Cap Space is the most over rated player in the league.  That bill of good about having to have cap space so you can make that sweetheart move at the deadline that will be the key to a Cup is so bogus Keanu Reaves is suing it for copyright infringement.  For all Brian Burke's flaws, his point about teams that need to make big acquisitions at the deadline being flawed in October makes a lot of sense. 

    Carpe the schist out of the diem, shupe.  The long term deals make the Bruins a contender next year and anywhere from the next 2 years to the next six or seven.  If Chara declines rapidly, Rask loses his focus, and Bergeron gets injured, well, we'll see how they manage.  But they'll manage.

     

     

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    Cap space has nothing to do with my opinion on rask.  Ive stated it numerous times that he has never played one full season in the nhl.  yet as a rfa they give him the hishest contract for a goalie.  name one goalie that this has happened to?   I hate the rask deal and believe its gonna hurt this team.  You can line up all the goalie contracts out there and not one of them were paid before they showed consistancy.   82 gms in a season.  He has a very good save % and gaa never playing in a full year.  Its based on a very small sample size.   And while be bolstered by the best defensive team in the league and an extremely solid backend.  

    you and i have debated this to death.  You are ok with it.  I absolutely hate it.  Howards deal in detroit is what i was hoping for.  he just had a 42 gm season in a lockout year.  Thats 3 gms off rasks best which was in 2010.  

    The only issue with cap space is i believe the seguin deal was based on freeing money to sign him.   

    And for the record.  My opinion on this matter has been backed up.   Find me one goalie that was given this kinda deal after a sample size scattered over 4 yrs.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    Sorry, shupe, but a lack of precedent doesn't mean you've backed it up.  And all the points about never having been the starter for a full season are nice if you're going to go to arbitration, but they're pretty useless when negotiating with a guy who has a choice - sign with you long term on a deal where you're using the fact he's an RFA to gain leverage, or go to arbitration, play out a one or two year deal (and ask for Rinne money anyway), and then take what the market will bear.  Those are really the only options.  You're not going to force him to take a Howard-like deal just because Howard did.  If you're the team, you're options are basically plan to move on without him when the market dictates he's worth $7M+ or, if you believe Rask's record is indicative of how he'll play as a starter over the next 8 years, sign him at market now.  Those are really your only options.

    I don't think the short seasons as a starter are an issue.  I think Rask has shown over four years that he's pretty much the same goalie night after night after night.  That's why I understand the deal - those chose to lock down a known quantity at market or slightly above (to buy 7 UFA years) rather than gamble on the most important issue on the ice.  That's two things the Bruins did repeatedly during the nearly 40 years without a Cup.  They changed that with Chiarelli and have now won a Cup and come within a hair's breadth of another.  Can something bad happen and then they're stuck with Rask?  Sure.  But if you're willing to accept a 6 year deal at a $5.3 cap hit, I don't see how two more years and less than $2M more cause you to cringe.

    Again, not trying to change your mind, but still having trouble understanding your thinking beyond not liking the commitment because things could go sour.

     

     

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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Sam Gagner what a joke

    In response to Bruinfaninnewjersey's comment:

    And starting in goal for the Bruins tonight:  Salary cap room!

    I'll take Rask at $7M instead.

    Not so fast... what kind of Save% and GAA does cap room have? [/QUOTE]


    And does he watch "doomday preppers" ?

     

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