Seguin disaster

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    "It was Chiarelli who determined that Phil Kessel, the fifth overall pick in the 2006 draft and a 36-goal scorer in just his third NHL season, didn’t fit with his vision for the team. And so he dealt the 21-year-old to Toronto for a handful of magic beans, one of which he turned into Tyler Seguin.

    Seguin came in and helped the Bruins win a Cup in 2011, but it wasn’t long before he also proved to be an ill-fitting piece. Whether it was immaturity off the ice, his style on it or simply an exploding contract that didn’t fit well under the contracting cap, he was deemed expendable and shipped to Dallas for veteran Loui Eriksson and another handful of prospects.

    Both Kessel and Seguin scored a career-high 37 goals this season, tied for fifth overall in the league. Kessel stands sixth in the overall scoring race with 80 points, tops on the Leafs and an new personal best. Seguin was arguably the breakthrough player of the year, his 84 points trailing just Sidney Crosby and Ryan Getzlaf. Both have established themselves as impact players whose absence would severely cripple their new teams…and yet the Bruins didn’t simply survive their loss. They actually got better. Focusing on the only points that matter — the two up for grabs every night — Chiarelli built a team that relies on depth and a shared identity rather than a predominant superstar. The wisdom of that approach is evident. That Stanley Cup in 2011. An appearance in the Final last year. And now, Boston’s first Presidents’ Trophy since the 1989-1990 season. That year, the Bruins lost to Mark Messier and the Edmonton Oilers in the Stanley Cup Final, and there’s a very good chance they’ll fall short of their ultimate goal again. There are no guarantees once you get into the tournament.

    But what is guaranteed is this: Thanks to the bold machinations of Chiarelli, the Bruins are as well situated as any team to capture the Cup. Not just this year, but next year and the year after and the year after that one, too. Plenty of teams talk about establishing a new culture. That’s exactly what Chiarelli did soon after being hired in 2006. He created a Culture of We. Everybody ropes, everybody rides and no one is bigger or more important than the spoked B on the front of the sweater.

    And that is why the Bruins are the best team in hockey."

     

    Winning!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    All that matter is the stats.

    Caron had more goals than Spooner or Bartkowski.

    Clearly he's more valuable.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    Caron had more goals than Spooner 

    Clearly he's more valuable.



    Also clearly the reason Caron is in the NHL ..........and Spooner wasn't. 

    Pfffttttttt !

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Canadianfan6. Show Canadianfan6's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    He did not score in last years finals!

    Was terrible in the first round ahainst the Leafs.

    Ya he pad his stats against weak teams, so what.

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to mitchco98's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Some of the greatest players have been traded and I get that. My problem is PC's judgement on the players coming back. Seguin deal we get Louie Eriksson and Smith, Wheeler and Stuart deal we get Pev's and Valabik. Yes we won the cup in 2011 with Pev's no reason to think with Wheeler and Stuart in the lineup the outcome would be different. Seguin 4th overall in the league and Wheeler in the top 20 in scoring. Bottom line PC got fleeced on both deals.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Marco?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    "Wheeler and Stuart deal we get Pev's and Valabik. Yes we won the cup in 2011 with Pev's no reason to think with Wheeler and Stuart in the lineup the outcome would be different."

     

    I'll let JWensink anwser this one.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to mitchco98's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Some of the greatest players have been traded and I get that. My problem is PC's judgement on the players coming back. Seguin deal we get Louie Eriksson and Smith, Wheeler and Stuart deal we get Pev's and Valabik. Yes we won the cup in 2011 with Pev's no reason to think with Wheeler and Stuart in the lineup the outcome would be different. Seguin 4th overall in the league and Wheeler in the top 20 in scoring. Bottom line PC got fleeced on both deals.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Marco?

    [/QUOTE]


    Gotta be.  I had this fool on ignroe before.  All you have to do is read that paragraph once to realize that the author is either just attempting to create controversy or don't have a logical fiber in his or her body.

    Either way, there is no reason to even get into all of the errors in the "thought" process.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    "It was Chiarelli who determined that Phil Kessel, the fifth overall pick in the 2006 draft and a 36-goal scorer in just his third NHL season, didn’t fit with his vision for the team. And so he dealt the 21-year-old to Toronto for a handful of magic beans, one of which he turned into Tyler Seguin.

    Seguin came in and helped the Bruins win a Cup in 2011, but it wasn’t long before he also proved to be an ill-fitting piece. Whether it was immaturity off the ice, his style on it or simply an exploding contract that didn’t fit well under the contracting cap, he was deemed expendable and shipped to Dallas for veteran Loui Eriksson and another handful of prospects.

    Both Kessel and Seguin scored a career-high 37 goals this season, tied for fifth overall in the league. Kessel stands sixth in the overall scoring race with 80 points, tops on the Leafs and an new personal best. Seguin was arguably the breakthrough player of the year, his 84 points trailing just Sidney Crosby and Ryan Getzlaf. Both have established themselves as impact players whose absence would severely cripple their new teams…and yet the Bruins didn’t simply survive their loss. They actually got better. Focusing on the only points that matter — the two up for grabs every night — Chiarelli built a team that relies on depth and a shared identity rather than a predominant superstar. The wisdom of that approach is evident. That Stanley Cup in 2011. An appearance in the Final last year. And now, Boston’s first Presidents’ Trophy since the 1989-1990 season. That year, the Bruins lost to Mark Messier and the Edmonton Oilers in the Stanley Cup Final, and there’s a very good chance they’ll fall short of their ultimate goal again. There are no guarantees once you get into the tournament.

    But what is guaranteed is this: Thanks to the bold machinations of Chiarelli, the Bruins are as well situated as any team to capture the Cup. Not just this year, but next year and the year after and the year after that one, too. Plenty of teams talk about establishing a new culture. That’s exactly what Chiarelli did soon after being hired in 2006. He created a Culture of We. Everybody ropes, everybody rides and no one is bigger or more important than the spoked B on the front of the sweater.

    And that is why the Bruins are the best team in hockey."

     

    Winning!

    [/QUOTE]

    One small example of PC's legend that needs to be be put in context.  Yes Seguin didn't fit PC's  "vision", but that wasn't true at all with Kessel.  PC didn't trade 81, when he did, becasue he wanted to.  He pretty much had to.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    This season Kessel proved himself an underachiever once more in the Olympics and in failing to provide any goals to lift his team into the playoffs since March 19th.

    This coming playoff will show if Seguin has really turned it around - or not.  I'm not the least bit surprised by his regular season scoring, I don't think anyone should be.  Let's see what he does with the Stars in the playoffs.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One small example of PC's legend that needs to be be put in context.  Yes Seguin didn't fit PC's  "vision", but that wasn't true at all with Kessel.  PC didn't trade 81, when he did, becasue he wanted to.  He pretty much had to.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, but let's put the whole thing in context.  He had players he needed to sign.  Among them were Krejci and Kessel with almost identical numbers of games played.  He set a value to the team on each of them and prioritized.  As a result, he got Krejci under wraps before Kessel.  He was prepared to use the leverage he has under the CBA to bring Kessel in at what he felt was an accurate reflection of his value to the Bruins - not $5.5M/yr.  He took a chance that other GMs would not make an unmatchable play for a one-dimensional goal scorer as an RFA.  Burke used his RFA leverage to coax Chiarelli to the table, and Chiarelli used the threat of matching to coax Burke to the table - as he said at the press conference, if Burke had put in an RFA offer, the Bruins would have matched and found a way to manage the cap.

    I think it's fair to say that Chiarelli handled Kessel's departure with an eye to his overall vision and where Kessel fit into it.  He wouldn't have let Kessel go if he'd have signed a $3.75M deal, sure, but that's a reflection of his willingness to continue to work with a player who doesn't fit instinctively.  Seguin got one more year than Kessel before it was clear he didn't fit the vision.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to stevegm's comment:[QUOTE] One small example of PC's legend that needs to be be put in context.  Yes Seguin didn't fit PC's  "vision", but that wasn't true at all with Kessel.  PC didn't trade 81, when he did, becasue he wanted to.  He pretty much had to. [/QUOTE]


    True PC put himself against the cap and had to make the trade. However what PC did with the return can be seen as genius. PC knew Burke needed a lot more to get the Lerfs even sniffing at the playoffs for a few more years, he knew they would be high picks.

    A big lesson was learned from the 2009 and 2010 cap days. Chiarelli had to a better job of evaluating his upcoming UFAs like Ward, Wideman, Sturm and Ryder during signings and re-signings. The amount "No" replys he must have gotten when trying to get rid of some salary to keep Kessel during the summer of 2009 must of crashed his Blackberry inbox.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    The Kessel trade could have turned out to be disastrous had they not gotten such good draft picks. Imagine if the Bruins had ended up having to take guys like Neiderreiter or Murphy? Yikes!

    The Seguin trade? I don't think either team missed out. The Stars hadn't been good for quite some time, and perhaps less pressure on Seguin while also getting more ice time with a guy like Benn was better for him. Eriksson and Smith have both been great additions to the Bruins. Even though they were both solid this year and the Bruins were better as a whole, I think those two will be even better next year (Eriksson in scoring, Smith in consistency). Also, don't forget about the cap space they saved. Without trading Seguin, they likely couldn't have signed Iginla either.

    You could argue that the Stars gained more, but I'd also argue that the Bruins gained some as well. This is how trades are supposed to work, if I'm not mistaken.

    I still can't defend the Thornton trade. No way.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One small example of PC's legend that needs to be be put in context.  Yes Seguin didn't fit PC's  "vision", but that wasn't true at all with Kessel.  PC didn't trade 81, when he did, becasue he wanted to.  He pretty much had to.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sure, but let's put the whole thing in context.  He had players he needed to sign.  Among them were Krejci and Kessel with almost identical numbers of games played.  He set a value to the team on each of them and prioritized.  As a result, he got Krejci under wraps before Kessel.  He was prepared to use the leverage he has under the CBA to bring Kessel in at what he felt was an accurate reflection of his value to the Bruins - not $5.5M/yr.  He took a chance that other GMs would not make an unmatchable play for a one-dimensional goal scorer as an RFA.  Burke used his RFA leverage to coax Chiarelli to the table, and Chiarelli used the threat of matching to coax Burke to the table - as he said at the press conference, if Burke had put in an RFA offer, the Bruins would have matched and found a way to manage the cap.

    I think it's fair to say that Chiarelli handled Kessel's departure with an eye to his overall vision and where Kessel fit into it.  He wouldn't have let Kessel go if he'd have signed a $3.75M deal, sure, but that's a reflection of his willingness to continue to work with a player who doesn't fit instinctively.  Seguin got one more year than Kessel before it was clear he didn't fit the vision.

    [/QUOTE]

    good points.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership.

    [/QUOTE]

    Sarcasm doesn't always come across on the internet

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:[QUOTE]

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership. [/QUOTE]

    LoL



     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sportsnutty. Show Sportsnutty's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership.

    [/QUOTE]

    If thats not a joke (and to Bruin's fans it definitely IS) that is so telling of the Dallas franchise.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership.

    [/QUOTE]


    What?? Who ARE you? His Mom?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to biggskye's comment:
    [QUOTE]

       When will some posters understand that there is a salary cap, and sometimes, tough choices have to be made?

    I have said before that I hated Seguin being traded, but I understand it.

    Instead of a RW consisting of Iginla, Eriksson, and Reilly Smith, the Bruins would be going into the playoffs with Seguin, a callup from the P-Bruins to replace Peverley who would have been the #2 RW all season, and Caron, or whomever they had signed for less than 1M, to be their #3 RW, this season.

    If people are going to keep complaining about certain trades, at least be willing to do some background work, to make sure there is some validity to the point you are trying to make.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Many quality responses to this thread but yours is easily my favourite. Personal feelings aside, Seguin's rarely mentioned big salary increase this year was likely a huge reason he was traded. It jumped from $900,000 to $4,500, 000 this year to $5,500,000 next year and $600,000 in 2015-2016. That's a lotta cash for someone who didn't score a goal in last year's play offs.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Hanrahan1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Many quality responses to this thread but yours is easily my favourite. Personal feelings aside, Seguin's rarely mentioned big salary increase this year was likely a huge reason he was traded. It jumped from $900,000 to $4,500, 000 this year to $5,500,000 next year and $600,000 in 2015-2016. That's a lotta cash for someone who didn't score a goal in last year's play offs.

    [/QUOTE]

    $34.5M for an immature dooosh who needs a babysitter while he chokes the playoffs away.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Either way, there is no reason to even get into all of the errors in the "thought" process.

    [/QUOTE]

    Not all, but the one that comes to mind?  Assume for a moment that it was even possible for the Bruins to have Kessel, Seguin, and Wheeler.  Three guys drafted 5th overall or higher.  Know who else has a plethora of young, offensively talented players who could be top ten scorers in the right circumstances?  The Edmonton Oilers.  You know, the team that will be cleaning out their lockers this week while the Bruins get ready for the playoffs as the top team in the league?

    Everyone knows what the Oilers need to do, but no one can bring themselves to really deal with what it means - least of all the Oilers.  The one deal you hear all sorts of people jumping around and flapping their junk about is trading for Weber.  Eberle and a bunch of stuff of Weber...except even then, no one wants to trade Hall or Eberle really, so you hear people say Yakupov or even Yakupov and Gagner.  There's such a fear of trading away high end young offensive players that people get the heebie jeebies about trading them for Shea freaking Weber.  Well, it ain't going to be that when it happens.  The Oilers will eventually have to bite the bullet and make a deal a lot like Wheeler and Stuart for Peverley and Valabik.  They'll move one of those guys - maybe RNH - for a couple of versatile, hard-working pros who didn't come up with a silver spoon in their mouths and the illusion that their hockey bags smell like lavender and bergamot.  They might have to do this more than once, especially if they draft another small to mid-size skill forward in the top three this year (they'll draft no lower than 4th).  The problem is, Peverleys are not easy to find - 27-28yr old players with 50+ point pedigrees who are fast, defensively solid, good on faceoffs....  In fact, there are fewer of them than there are young, offensively gifted players on the rise if you look at the league scoring.   

    What Chiarelli did was assess a need on his team - both with the Seguin deal and the Wheeler deal - then pay cash to get what he needed.  In this case, cash means a highly valuable asset that you're pretty sure you don't need.  Like paper money, it's only real value is in exchange.  He did it well enough with the Wheeler deal that Peverley was a key cog in a Cup win.  He did it well enough with Seguin that his team won the President's Trophy and has a very real shot at another Finals appearance and maybe another Cup.  That's not getting fleeced.  That's thinking differently.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    PS.  At the risk of making all that above pointless, you know who "got it" in the same way Chiarelli does?  Bobby Clarke.  I remember him saying in an interview once that he really didn't give a dam about the players he traded away - the only thing he cared abut when he made a trade was the contributions of the players he acquired.  If they gave him what he wanted, he was happy.

    Clarke always was a little loopy, but I think Chiarelli is more or less of the same mind - just not as trigger happy about making deals every time he's mildly annoyed with how someone is playing.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NBbruinsfan. Show NBbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    The Trade was done because of Circumstance. Big $’s had to be moved out for the better of the team. Seguin was the obvious choice for the Bruins and for trading partners. He being 21 and his potential only on the rise. Chia made the best of the situation and made a very good trade. It is becoming clearer we have two top 6 two way forwards that fit perfectly in our system. A good young D in Morrow that will serve us well regardless how we use him, Fraser too. Seguin is benefiting from the bruin experience and is slowly growing up. Good for him, I hope he becomes the player he can be. It was hard to let him go but it had to be done. Even if he becomes the next Yzerman, it was the right choice to make. Lets move on and stop looking back.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Seguin disaster

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:[QUOTE]

    Seguin wearing the 'A' tonight, not sure if that is new or just for ths game.  Kid just oozes leadership. [/QUOTE]

    LoL



    [/QUOTE]


    Actually, that's a pretty smart management position.  Sure it seems kind of funny, but it's merely symbolic.  You can bet the Stars management had a long chat with TS when he got there.  How they rescued him, gave him a new starting point, while strongly pointing out the fact that the leagues elite, threw him right out the door.  I'm sure he was told he'd be on a short leash.

    That's got to be pretty humbling, even to a cocky 21 year old millionaire.  With many troublesome young underachievers, the first step in their makeover is very authoritarian.  They have to be broken, before they start to catch on.  When they start buying in, it's all about encouragement, helping lift them to that next level, only after they've exhibited qualities that suggest they deserve that push.  This "A", is a corporate pat on the back, that can also be used to knock him over the head later....if need be.

    With Seguins skill set, and his history, things will only go 1 of 2 ways. 1. he'll be a big star, or a big disappointment.

      For his sake, it would be nice if the people in Dallas figure out a way to get through to him, like the people in Boston did with Rick Middleton.

    THIS IS NOT A POST AGAINST THE SEGUIN TRADE!

     
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