Seguin isn't a cap move

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Seguin isn't a cap move

    A lot of threads about Seguin, and I haven't read them all.  A lot of what I have read though, I'm not sure I agree with.

    Despite a desperate need for Bruin Country to beat their chest re the Kessel deal, this part didn't deliver.  To date, Seguin's been Samsonov Lite, and 6 years of big bucks is downright scary.  Can Tyler do a Rick Middleton ?  Possibly, but obviously, the Bruins don't think so.  I agree with them.

    I don't think there's a chance in Hell, this deal was put together because the B's are against the cap.  The trigger was pulled because Tyler Seguin is gonna be paid like a franchise player, and the Bruin brass doesn't think he'll deliver.  Plain and simple.  If they thought differently, they wouldn't make the deal.

    It's also fairly obvious PC and the whole management group(that's what's involved in player transactions of this magnitude) figured they were stuck with Seguin before they made public statements about his maturity.  Those never help the marketability, and PC's smart enough to realize that.  This deal probably sarted to come together after that, and obviously, the company is thrilled.

    Maybe now we can stop worrying about the Kessel thing, and go win another cup.

    I believe in the hockey IQ of this group, and I share their opinion that Seguin is not a player that you build your future on.

    If he was, that new found cap space wouldn't be an issue.

    Don't know much about the players we're getting, but the reviews from some of uour best posters is  encouraging.

    Now if we can just get Clarkson.................

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    The trigger was pulled because Tyler Seguin is gonna be paid like a franchise player, and the Bruin brass doesn't think he'll deliver.  Plain and simple.  If they thought differently, they wouldn't make the deal.



    Highlighting the meat.  This is the view I'm coming around to.  Looking at the numbers, I think Chiarelli could easily have kept Seguin.  He makes this trade because he likes the return and the options it opens up cap-wise more than he likes Seguin and his contract.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

     

    Plus the "baby in the basket" scenario that everyone is walking on eggshells here where Bergeron signs his extension and is the recipient of  "the hit."

    And who is the heir apparent?

    I always thought it was Seguin......Does Eriksson take draws as well?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    The whole showing up late for a playoff game in Toronto and wearing the same clothes three days in a row I'm sure didnt help his cause.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    I hope this deal works out for the Bruins and they win another Cup before Chara retires but I also hope Tyler proves that they were wrong.

    Again are Thornton, Kessel and Seguin the problem or do the Bruins not know how to handle young talented star players?  It is becoming a trend and thank God they won a Cup.  If they hadn't there would be way more outrage.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

    Plus the "baby in the basket" scenario that everyone is walking on eggshells here where Bergeron signs his extension and is the recipient of  "the hit."

    And who is the heir apparent?

    I always thought it was Seguin......Does Eriksson take draws as well?




    Most of the Bruins forwards seem to be centers anyways JM and  Spooner is eventually going to play hopefully as well. Fear not and if you'd like a pick me up, just go to the Stars official site and read the comments from Stars fans regarding how they feel about losing Eriksson. They all talk about him like we do of Bergeron. I saw the word untouchable being thrown around. Consistentcy was another word I kept reading.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to stevegm's comment:

     

    A lot of threads about Seguin, and I haven't read them all.  A lot of what I have read though, I'm not sure I agree with.

    Despite a desperate need for Bruin Country to beat their chest re the Kessel deal, this part didn't deliver.  To date, Seguin's been Samsonov Lite, and 6 years of big bucks is downright scary.  Can Tyler do a Rick Middleton ?  Possibly, but obviously, the Bruins don't think so.  I agree with them.

    I don't think there's a chance in Hell, this deal was put together because the B's are against the cap.  The trigger was pulled because Tyler Seguin is gonna be paid like a franchise player, and the Bruin brass doesn't think he'll deliver.  Plain and simple.  If they thought differently, they wouldn't make the deal.

    It's also fairly obvious PC and the whole management group(that's what's involved in player transactions of this magnitude) figured they were stuck with Seguin before they made public statements about his maturity.  Those never help the marketability, and PC's smart enough to realize that.  This deal probably sarted to come together after that, and obviously, the company is thrilled.

    Maybe now we can stop worrying about the Kessel thing, and go win another cup.

    I believe in the hockey IQ of this group, and I share their opinion that Seguin is not a player that you build your future on.

    If he was, that new found cap space wouldn't be an issue.

    Don't know much about the players we're getting, but the reviews from some of uour best posters is  encouraging.

    Now if we can just get Clarkson.................

     

     

    Excellent post, steve.  It would seem Seguin didn't help his cause by performing in a manner that prompted mangement to project/gamble on him not developing his desire to compete more intensely commensurate to his skills and salary status. 

    If you were the GM and critically assessed his 3 years in the league, both on and off ice, would you also have made the same move or would you have held out hope for a resurgence?  Anyone else please feel free to weigh in.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to huntbri's comment:

    I hope this deal works out for the Bruins and they win another Cup before Chara retires but I also hope Tyler proves that they were wrong.

    Again are Thornton, Kessel and Seguin the problem or do the Bruins not know how to handle young talented star players?  It is becoming a trend and thank God they won a Cup.  If they hadn't there would be way more outrage.

     




    It's hardly a trend though really Hunt. For every Seguin and Kessel, there are still guys like Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic and Krejci. They're also very talented young players that were picked and developed by the Bruins from a very young age...........and quite successfully I might add.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

     

    Plus the "baby in the basket" scenario that everyone is walking on eggshells here where Bergeron signs his extension and is the recipient of  "the hit."

    And who is the heir apparent?

    I always thought it was Seguin......Does Eriksson take draws as well?

     




    Most of the Bruins forwards seem to be centers anyways JM and  Spooner is eventually going to play hopefully as well. Fear not and if you'd like a pick me up, just go to the Stars official site and read the comments from Stars fans regarding how they feel about losing Eriksson. They all talk about him like we do of Bergeron. I saw the word untouchable being thrown around. Consistentcy was another word I kept reading.

     



    It sounds like he would be more of a game-in, game-out certainty than Seguin is presently, dez.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

     

    Plus the "baby in the basket" scenario that everyone is walking on eggshells here where Bergeron signs his extension and is the recipient of  "the hit."

    And who is the heir apparent?

    I always thought it was Seguin......Does Eriksson take draws as well?

     




    Most of the Bruins forwards seem to be centers anyways JM and  Spooner is eventually going to play hopefully as well. Fear not and if you'd like a pick me up, just go to the Stars official site and read the comments from Stars fans regarding how they feel about losing Eriksson. They all talk about him like we do of Bergeron. I saw the word untouchable being thrown around. Consistentcy was another word I kept reading.

     

     



    It sounds like he would be more of a game-in, game-out certainty than Seguin is presently, dez.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    RHO, his 4 seasons before this short one he had 63-71-73-71 points. Pretty consistent I'd say. Add in the fact Loui's only missed 3 games in 5 years. I said it on another thread but it bears repeating-Seguin sleeps in more than that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     


    RHO, his 4 seasons before this short one he had 63-71-73-71 points. Pretty consistent I'd say. Add in the fact Loui's only missed 3 games in 5 years. I said it on another thread but it bears repeating-Seguin sleeps in more than that.

     

     



    If there is a New York Times best-selling "Book Of Dez," that classic line's gotta be in it, man.  More impressive is the above stats you provide were for non-playoff Stars teams.  They haven't qualified since 2008.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

    Plus the "baby in the basket" scenario that everyone is walking on eggshells here where Bergeron signs his extension and is the recipient of  "the hit."

    And who is the heir apparent?

    I always thought it was Seguin......Does Eriksson take draws as well?




    JMW, you've put this out there a couple of times so far.  Why spend a second thinking like this?  It's soooooooooo damn gloom and doom, almost trollish.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    In response to huntbri's comment:

     

     

     

    I hope this deal works out for the Bruins and they win another Cup before Chara retires but I also hope Tyler proves that they were wrong.

    Again are Thornton, Kessel and Seguin the problem or do the Bruins not know how to handle young talented star players?  It is becoming a trend and thank God they won a Cup.  If they hadn't there would be way more outrage.

     

     

     




    It's hardly a trend though really Hunt. For every Seguin and Kessel, there are still guys like Bergeron, Marchand, Lucic and Krejci. They're also very talented young players that were picked and developed by the Bruins from a very young age...........and quite successfully I might add.

     

     

     



    Yes Dez these guys are great young players and Bergeron is a better all round player than Joe, Phil or Tyler.  It seems like any guy who is more of a star offensive guy has found himself in the doghouse. It is almost like the idea of having a star player doesn't sit well so they knock them down a peg and then when they struggle they trade them.  I wonder if a guy like Patrick Kane would have made the grade in Boston?  Toews would be fine because he has no hot dog in him.  Look with Chara and Bergy and Looch in the room the Bruins have great character and are in good hands.  I just wonder if there is ever room for a talented offensive player that is not a prototypical Bruin? Joe plays a much more sandpaper type game now but would that have happened if he didn't have the change of scenery? Who knows. Phil actually had some success against Chara in the playoffs. Would he have developed some b@lls if he stayed in Boston? Will Tyler mature and play a dirtier game in Dallas?  Maybe but perhaps they all needed the shake up and a rude awakening for it to happen.  The Bruins won a Cup and got within 2 wins of another so PC has done a great job. Still it is sad that the last 3 guys with big offensive upside have been shipped out of town at a very young age.  It may in all cases be the right move but it is still frustrating when things don't pan out the way you hope for players you like that you hoped would be Bruins for a long time - for me  Joe and Tyler.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    i like the trade in that not only do the B'S get a skilled player who fits in well in CJ'S scheme of things but the B'S also get some much-needed cap space....

    that said, there's no need to crap all over Tyler to justify this trade....

     

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to huntbri's comment:

     

    Yes Dez these guys are great young players and Bergeron is a better all round player than Joe, Phil or Tyler.  It seems like any guy who is more of a star offensive guy has found himself in the doghouse. It is almost like the idea of having a star player doesn't sit well so they knock them down a peg and then when they struggle they trade them.  I wonder if a guy like Patrick Kane would have made the grade in Boston?  Toews would be fine because he had no hot dog in him.  Look with Chara and Bergy and Looch in the room the Bruins have great character and are in good hands.  I just wonder if there is ever room for a talented offensive player that is not a prototypical Bruin? Joe plays a much more sandpaper type game now but would that have happened if he didn't have the change of scenery? Who knows. Phil actually had some success against Chara in the playoffs. Would he have developed some b@lls if he stayed in Boston? Will Tyler mature and play a dirtier game in Dallas?  Maybe but perhaps they all needed the shake up and a rude awakening for it to happen.  The Bruins won a Cup and got within 2 wins of another so PC has done a great job. Still it is sad that the last 3 guys with big offensive upside have been shipped out of town at a very young age.  It may in all cases be the right move but it is still frustrating when things don't pan out the way you hope for players you like that you hoped would be Bruins for a long time - for me  Joe and Tyler.

     

     



    huntbri, you mention a lot of hypotheticals in your post.  It's hard to say what the outcomes would have been if Thornton and Kessel remained Bruins.  Somehow I think they would have become the players they are right now; Thornton a playmaking center and Kessel a goal-scoring winger. 

     

    It's tough to say if this move will serve as a wake-up call to Seguin regarding his devotion to competing and the justification of his contract.  Let's not forget he's no longer a rookie and by some accounts wasn't acquitting himself well both on and off-ice as the Bruins expected.  Eriksson sounds like a solid addition to the team.  I think we should be curious about Morrow and Fraser who is generally compared to the highly-sought after David Clarkson.  That's not bad.

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:




    JMW, you've put this out there a couple of times so far.  Why spend a second thinking like this?  It's soooooooooo damn gloom and doom, almost trollish.

     

     



    lol...good catch. I thought I would suggest it just because I personally feel it may be something to consider, that is all.

    Believe me, I do not wish to think of it but if I were PC the thought must enter my mind ......unpleasant as it may be.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    "Fear not and if you'd like a pick me up, just go to the Stars official site and read the comments from Stars fans regarding how they feel about losing Eriksson. They all talk about him like we do of Bergeron. I saw the word untouchable being thrown around. Consistentcy was another word I kept reading." - dezaruchi

     

    Nice one.

     

    Eriksson and bring on...'the UFA'

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

    In response to huntbri's comment:

     

    Yes Dez these guys are great young players and Bergeron is a better all round player than Joe, Phil or Tyler.  It seems like any guy who is more of a star offensive guy has found himself in the doghouse. It is almost like the idea of having a star player doesn't sit well so they knock them down a peg and then when they struggle they trade them.  I wonder if a guy like Patrick Kane would have made the grade in Boston?  Toews would be fine because he had no hot dog in him.  Look with Chara and Bergy and Looch in the room the Bruins have great character and are in good hands.  I just wonder if there is ever room for a talented offensive player that is not a prototypical Bruin? Joe plays a much more sandpaper type game now but would that have happened if he didn't have the change of scenery? Who knows. Phil actually had some success against Chara in the playoffs. Would he have developed some b@lls if he stayed in Boston? Will Tyler mature and play a dirtier game in Dallas?  Maybe but perhaps they all needed the shake up and a rude awakening for it to happen.  The Bruins won a Cup and got within 2 wins of another so PC has done a great job. Still it is sad that the last 3 guys with big offensive upside have been shipped out of town at a very young age.  It may in all cases be the right move but it is still frustrating when things don't pan out the way you hope for players you like that you hoped would be Bruins for a long time - for me  Joe and Tyler.

     

     



    huntbri, you mention a lot of hypotheticals in your post.  It's hard to say what the outcomes would have been if Thornton and Kessel remained Bruins.  Somehow I think they would have become the players they are right now; Thornton a playmaking center and Kessel a goal-scoring winger. 

     

    It's tough to say if this move will serve as a wake-up call to Seguin regarding his devotion to competing and the justification of his contract.  Let's not forget he's no longer a rookie and by some accounts wasn't acquitting himself well both on and off-ice as the Bruins expected.  Eriksson sounds like a solid addition to the team.  I think we should be curious about Morrow and Fraser who is generally compared to the highly-sought after David Clarkson.  That's not bad.

     



    Joe has always been a playmaking centre but in the last 3 or 4 years he has become a good two way centre, a great face off guy and much grittier come playoff time.  Even after he left Boston it took him awhile to "get it".

     Rich I do agree that the Bruins are probably a better team today with Erickson over Seguin.  I just hope I can say that in 2 or 3 years. The prospects they also received in the deal might be the differentiator 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to huntbri's comment:

    Joe has always been a playmaking centre but in the last 3 or 4 years he has become a good two way centre, a great face off guy and much grittier come playoff time.  Even after he left Boston it took him awhile to "get it".

     

    Rich I do agree that the Bruins are probably a better team today with Erickson over Seguin. I just hope I can say that in 2 or 3 years. The prospects they also received in the deal might be the differentiator 



    Exactly.  They possess some intangibles Chiarelli covets for the Bruins.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    Hunt, I feel your pain regarding the idea of watching other franchises developing offensive stars that were selected by the Bruins. I don't like it and can honestly say I'm still a fan of all 3 of the players you mentioned. Heck, I still even give Kessel his due. It is what it is.  I learned to deal with it the first time when I was a kid and Esposito got dealt. I was heartbroken but eventually came to really appreciate Park and Ratelle just as much. I was also less than thrilled when they traded an awesome Barry Pederson for some kid named Neely and a pick.


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    I remember how shocked I was about the Espo trade but I too learned to love Ratelle and Park.

    Even though I liked Pederson that trade never bothered me.  I think he was coming off surgery for a tumour in his bicep and they weren't sure how much it would affect him. Meanwhile the talk about Neely was about his upside, however  I don't even think the Boston brass imagined him turning into one of the greatest Bruins ever.  I think the Bruins will be fine but as you mentioned I will still cheer for guys I like who they trade away.  I would still feel better about the deal if they find a way to sign Clarkson.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CubanPete. Show CubanPete's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late."

    -Branch Rickey

     

    ...the King of the Rumba Beat...

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    I love Loui Eriksson, but I hate this trade. Maybe Joe Morrow can make this hurt less someday, but this really sucks, right now.

    Seguin at the age of 21, has played, including playoffs, 245 games, scored 62 goals and 77 assists, led his team in scoring, been to the Finals twice, and won a Stanley Cup. All while playing out of his natural position.

    Eriksson at 21, was still in the AHL.

    I think Seguin is a very special talent that does not come around very often, and I hate that he is no longer a Bruin. At least now, I have a team to cheer for in the West.

    Go Stars!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin isn't a cap move

    In response to CubanPete's comment:

    "Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late."

    -Branch Rickey




    Coming from the man that invented the baseball farm system. That is a great quote!

     
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