Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    Let's think about this one....
    Seguin +27
    Marchand +24
    Bergeron +20

    Goals (total/PP)
    Seguin - 15/3
    Marchand - 15/2
    Bergeron - 7/2
    Overall, these guys have scored 30 even-strength/shorthanded goals.
    The Bruins defensemen have scored a combined 11 even-strength goals.

    Realistically, I think we can say that none of these guys have been on the ice for more than 40 even strength goals.
    In perspective? Seguin has been on the ice for no more than 13 opponents even-strength goals.

    I guess +/- is still irrelevant?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    I'm not sure if you know about this or not but http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_statistics.php?ds=25&s=22&f1=2011_s&f2=5v5&f5=BOS&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+17+18+19+20+21+22+23+24+25+26+27+28#
    carries the EV goals against stat.  For Seguin/Bergeron/Marchand it is 10/10/9.  There's overlap there too, of course.  So at absolute max, they've seen a total of 29 goals against, but in all likelihood it's more like 15.  Even if they weren't scoring, that's mighty impressive.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    I wonder how line matchups play into this.  Are they seeing the opposition's shut down line?  If so, then most teams don't get a ton of offense from that group, but the goals scored are impressive.    If it is Julien matching and putting these guys out as the Bruin's shut down line then this is even more impressive.  Either way these guys are having a fantastic year.   
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    Cool stats there.  Good post.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoyalBlackNGold. Show LoyalBlackNGold's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]I wonder how line matchups play into this.  Are they seeing the opposition's shut down line?  If so, then most teams don't get a ton of offense from that group, but the goals scored are impressive.    If it is Julien matching and putting these guys out as the Bruin's shut down line then this is even more impressive.  Either way these guys are having a fantastic year.   
    Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]

    fletcher is right this is a great thread. the road games it tougher to match up the bergeron line against the home team top line because of last change. so u kind of beat me to the punch scooter with asking if the bergeron line is being used as the shutdown line against the visitors top line. i ask because i only get to see about 10 mins of home games because im working there and cant get out to arena until lines die down. if julian is using the bergeron line against the other teams top line then this stat is really off the charts. great thread king.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    The line matchup point is valid.  The Bruins have the second fewest road games played to date (SJ has one less).  When the schedule evens out, perhaps the +/- will do the same.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    I think Kelly has been drawing most of the defensive line duty lately, but I am not sure.  There are two comments I'd like to make on that, though:

    First, here's a list of league-leaders in 5-on-5 goals for while on ice:
    What stands out is that many of the league-leaders in points already have 20+ goals against, despite presumably drawing match-up lines most of the time.

    Second, there's some way (I don't understand it) to get a number for Quality of Competition on ice.
    Chara and Boychuk are out there against opponents' top lines, so it is no surprise they have the highest value.  What is peculiar is that the KHL line has the next highest value.  I'm not sure if this means that they are mostly getting the opponents' top D, or they are getting stuck against the opponents' top lines.  The MBS line is after that, so overall I guess they are getting something in between - not consistently the top line, and not consistently the top D.

    Line match-ups are a big part of why it is so difficult to do really good statistical analysis of hockey players.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]The line matchup point is valid.  The Bruins have the second fewest road games played to date (SJ has one less).  When the schedule evens out, perhaps the +/- will do the same.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    The Bruins have a better road record percentage then they do at home . When you say perhaps it will even out, do you mean it will get better ?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    My point is that the combination of tough road trips and the lack of the last change may have some effect.  Although the term "tough road trip" is relative, when speaking about teams in the East.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]My point is that the combination of tough road trips and the lack of the last change may have some effect.  Although the term "tough road trip" is relative, when speaking about teams in the East.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    They are all in the top 15 in the league in +/- in road games.
     
    Wouldn't this suggest this line plays well in other buildings regardless of road trips and line changes ? I really see no reasoning behind your point other then you're hoping this might happen. It hasn't so far.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]The line matchup point is valid.  The Bruins have the second fewest road games played to date (SJ has one less).  When the schedule evens out, perhaps the +/- will do the same.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    Generally speaking the more games that get played the higher the +/- stat gets. So I think your point isn't quite making the point you were attempting to make. Its not the same as GA where you would be 100% correct. Don't forget that line scores at home and away. And they also don't allow scoring home and away.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    Ahh yes the mighty west. The west is no better than the east this year, 49North. The East has 5 teams where I'd say people believe they have the talent to win the Cup. The West? Probably 4. And there is no team in the west where you fear going into their house....They all play soft hockey.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    The toughest part about this line is that they can play either role...they can beat most lines with their offense, and they can shut down top lines. I can't imagine with all of these guys' two-way play that they don't try to match up with top lines at least some of the time.

    Confession: Due to lack of broadcasting where I am, last night was the first full game that I've seen this year (I've checked highlights, stats, and just about every recap of each game). It's pretty clear how much better Seguin and Marchand are than they were at this point last season. They are just so much more comfortable with the puck, and aren't afraid to turn it over.

    And as for those not taking notice: Seguin is a hustler on his backchecking...his two way game has come a long way as well.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    Bergeron is the key defensively and is such a smart player in the D-zone and takes such great angles defensively. Add that to his strenght on the puck and grinding along the wall and you have a very special player.

    I think Marchand is easily the Bs best winger offensively at this point and has a ton a of skill for such an agitator type. I dislike some of the shenanigans but the kid is a very good young winger with a lot of offensive upside and energy. He is great when he plays on the edge but I hate when he crosses the line because he is to good of a player and don't have to be cheap to be effective.

    Seguin had a great month and obviously has the tools and shows flashes of brillance. I will probably take heat for this but I am concerned with some of his decision making with the puck. He plays careless at times with the puck and those mistakes are usually covered up by Bergeron but the kid still has holes in his game. He is also not that strong on the one on one battles but he will get stronger as he gets older.

    Together they have been the Bs most consistent line all year even though Seguin has been in a bit of a lull lately at both ends. A ton of talent though with youth on his side I think he will get it together going forward.

    Also, in Seguins defence he has been playing out of position in the NHL compared to his Jr days and that can be a very tough learning a new position at the NHL level.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mb30. Show mb30's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]Bergeron is the key defensively and is such a smart player in the D-zone and takes such great angles defensively. Add that to his strenght on the puck and grinding along the wall and you have a very special player. I think Marchand is easily the Bs best winger offensively at this point and has a ton a of skill for such an agitator type. I dislike some of the shenanigans but the kid is a very good young winger with a lot of offensive upside and energy. He is great when he plays on the edge but I hate when he crosses the line because he is to good of a player and don't have to be cheap to be effective. Seguin had a great month and obviously has the tools and shows flashes of brillance. I will probably take heat for this but I am concerned with some of his decision making with the puck. He plays careless at times with the puck and those mistakes are usually covered up by Bergeron but the kid still has holes in his game. He is also not that strong on the one on one battles but he will get stronger as he gets older. Together they have been the Bs most consistent line all year even though Seguin has been in a bit of a lull lately at both ends. A ton of talent though with youth on his side I think he will get it together going forward. Also, in Seguins defence he has been playing out of position in the NHL compared to his Jr days and that can be a very tough learning a new position at the NHL level.
    Posted by Newfiebullet[/QUOTE]

    On Seguin, it's all part of the development.. but I have to disagree with you about a lull in both ends.  I think the lull has been in the offensive end for him.  IMO he's been doing a great job in the defensive zone getting in passing lanes as well as backchecking.  Last night I thought he played his best defensive game in a B's uniform.  He didn't have a lot of hits, but I saw at least a half a dozen times where he disrupted passes or just straight up stole the puck from an opposing player by keeping his feet moving and being in the right spots.  I think that might be part of the reason he's been in more of an offensive lull is because he's been putting more focus on his defensive positioning and backchecking.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective

    In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin/Marchand/Bergeron's +/- in perspective : On Seguin, it's all part of the development.. but I have to disagree with you about a lull in both ends.  I think the lull has been in the offensive end for him.  IMO he's been doing a great job in the defensive zone getting in passing lanes as well as backchecking.  Last night I thought he played his best defensive game in a B's uniform.  He didn't have a lot of hits, but I saw at least a half a dozen times where he disrupted passes or just straight up stole the puck from an opposing player by keeping his feet moving and being in the right spots.  I think that might be part of the reason he's been in more of an offensive lull is because he's been putting more focus on his defensive positioning and backchecking.
    Posted by mb30[/QUOTE]

    If that's the case then I'm glad he's a Bruin because its showing he wants to be more of a team player than a one man Thrill.

    Eh eh? See what I did there? haha
     
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