Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Just had a pretty funny thought about which player Seguin might most resemble in a year or so. You guys won't like the comparison. Speed and quick shot coming up the wing. An offensive game-changer. Would benefit from Savard feeding him passes all day. I have to go purge myself.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]

    ...but does he have the toe drag, selfish uncoachability, and lack of will on the defensive side to pull it off?

    purge yourself indeed!
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : ...but does he have the toe drag, selfish uncoachability, and lack of will on the defensive side to pull it off? purge yourself indeed!
    Posted by seobrien[/QUOTE]

    Oh yea. I had erased my mind of all that....
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanInPenTerritory. Show BruinsFanInPenTerritory's posts

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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : Oh yea. I had erased my mind of all that....
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE] If Seguin can ring up 30 goal seasons like he-who-shall-not-be-named, then statistically speaking I would be happy. Minus the childish attitude of course.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : Not to get too far off-topic, but want me to really make your head explode? Seguin can't create his own space yet, but just imagine if he had two linemates who were some of the best at it: Marchand-Krejci-Horton Lucic-Bergeron-Seguin Peverly-Kelly-Pouliot Thornton-Campbell-Paille That top line has some pluck to it as well, and perhaps might force Krejci to shoot the darn puck more often. We are also disregarding the 800lb gorilla....when does Seguin shift to his natural center position, or does that not happen?
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]
    The ability to create space seemed like Peverley's best attribute. That's one of the reasons I wouldn't be opposed to seeing Seguin reunited with Peverley.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Interesting post dez, not sure I have seen enough of his "grown-up" game to make an assessment yet.  The highlight reel stuff still reminds me a little of Pat LaFontaine, though. 

    Either way, I am very much looking forward to the next step in his evolution next year.
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]OK, as the Canucks fan on this board, I've got to take some issue with the Seguin-Bure comparison.  Pavel scored 34 goals in his rookie season; Seguin had 11.  I was there at his first game vs. the Jets in November of 91 (he didn't even have a training camp with the Canucks in his first year), and even though he didn't score, he blew through the entire Jets team on several end-to-end rushes, and had the crowd on their feet every time. Seguin's good, no doubt, and perhaps one can make the case that his "toolbox" of hockey skills makes him a candidate to one day be as good as Bure.  It's like watching the NHL draft, and when they describe each draftee, they compare him to a player "... he's like Patrick Marleau.." for example.  But they're only describing physical type, style of play, basic hockey skills.  Longevity is the true mark of greatness. Just for fun, I found TSN's Top 10 Bure goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5VlMjeLXbw
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
    As mentioned previously by Sandog, Bure was a 21 year old rookie that finished with 60 points. I think it's a safe bet that Seguin will have more than 34 goals and 60 points when he's 21 years old. Let's compare apples to apples before claiming Bure the clear winner in this debate.
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Interesting post dez, not sure I have seen enough of his "grown-up" game to make an assessment yet.  The highlight reel stuff still reminds me a little of Pat LaFontaine, though.  Either way, I am very much looking forward to the next step in his evolution next year.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]
    Crowls, it crossed my mind after seeing a Seguin highlight pack. Many of his goals were of the Bure variety in that he was able to explode into the open ice and,all the while, was able to maintain puck possession  in order to deke the goalies. When a player is able to control the puck on a breakaway at full speed, there isn't a goalie on the planet that can stop them. a quick move and the puck is in the open side. Seguin has that ability.
     
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    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]OK, as the Canucks fan on this board, I've got to take some issue with the Seguin-Bure comparison.  Pavel scored 34 goals in his rookie season; Seguin had 11.  I was there at his first game vs. the Jets in November of 91 (he didn't even have a training camp with the Canucks in his first year), and even though he didn't score, he blew through the entire Jets team on several end-to-end rushes, and had the crowd on their feet every time. Seguin's good, no doubt, and perhaps one can make the case that his "toolbox" of hockey skills makes him a candidate to one day be as good as Bure.  It's like watching the NHL draft, and when they describe each draftee, they compare him to a player "... he's like Patrick Marleau.." for example.  But they're only describing physical type, style of play, basic hockey skills.  Longevity is the true mark of greatness. Just for fun, I found TSN's Top 10 Bure goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5VlMjeLXbw
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    Some of those goals—like the ones against St. Louis and New Jersey—are just sick. Thanks for the link.

     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I said it early last season (when everyone here was saying it was too early to project for a player), and I am sticking with it, though I do feel better about the comparison player than I did previously... Tyler Seguin is....JASON SPEZZA! Point producing machine but will be a bit inconsistent. The Tampa series epitomized this. However, did you know that amongst players drafted since 1996, there have only been 11 point-per-game players AND Jason Spezza is one of them (so is Jumbo Joe). EDIT: It might only be 10 now since Kovalchuk struggled mightly last season.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    he still had 60 points...believe it or not he is EXACTLY a point a game player, 702 in 702
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : he still had 60 points...believe it or not he is EXACTLY a point a game player, 702 in 702
    Posted by thedauber1[/QUOTE]

    I absolutely believe it.

    There are very few PPG players in the NHL these days (pre and post lockout) and Kovalchuk has proven to be an elite talent. When I see Skinner put up Kovalchck-esque numbers as a rook, I really get excited for the future of the game.

    I've been hard on Seguin (and Spezza), but when you consider what the Ottawa pivot has done, how can you not be happy with that?
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I don't think Tyler will be in the top six next year.  Maybe by the end of the season he may start pushing for the open spot with Bergy/Marchy - maybe only on the power plays. What excited me watching Seguin during the playoffs was seeing him shed his on-ice fear.  Almost the entire season he looked afraid when he had the puck or it was coming his way.  But really against Tampa and the Nucks he didn't look that way - at least to my eyes. When I watch him play he doesn't really remind me of any other player - at least yet...
    Posted by BruinsIn4[/QUOTE]

    Exactly what I was going to say, Bruins...

    By the end of the year, he wasn't making the same mistakes he was in the beginning...

    He made the right plays instead of panicking and getting rid of the puck quickly, he interrupted passing lanes on the forecheck and even created turnovers sometimes, he started going with the flow of the game instead of forcing stuff, etc.

    All stuff that he wasn't doing early on and we should be excited for him to improve on...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]OK, as the Canucks fan on this board, I've got to take some issue with the Seguin-Bure comparison.  Pavel scored 34 goals in his rookie season; Seguin had 11.  I was there at his first game vs. the Jets in November of 91 (he didn't even have a training camp with the Canucks in his first year), and even though he didn't score, he blew through the entire Jets team on several end-to-end rushes, and had the crowd on their feet every time. Seguin's good, no doubt, and perhaps one can make the case that his "toolbox" of hockey skills makes him a candidate to one day be as good as Bure.  It's like watching the NHL draft, and when they describe each draftee, they compare him to a player "... he's like Patrick Marleau.." for example.  But they're only describing physical type, style of play, basic hockey skills.  Longevity is the true mark of greatness. Just for fun, I found TSN's Top 10 Bure goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5VlMjeLXbw
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    I agree with everything except your last line. Longevity has nothing to do with greatness.  In fact, longevity often results in career stats that cause lesser players to be incorrectly compared to great ones who had shorter careers.

    Why, the best player ever in the game had a career tragically shortened by knee injuries.  No longevity there.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Regarding Seguin, I can't make a comparison to anyone at his age, physical development and stage.  He's an undersized young kid with speed and talent and he could be great.  Or not.  Lets watch.

    And I was at the game he had his record-breaking period.  I have to say as fun as it was to watch, I'm getting a little tired of fans referring to that period as some sort of litmus proof that he's a one of a kind player.  Lots of players have had a few great shifts.

     
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    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I'm with you SoxFanInIL...can't think of who he reminds me of...hope he's great though....these threads at least leat Bruin fans talk hockey....can't wait for the hockey season to start and the march to Lord Stanley's cup again !!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Regarding Seguin, I can't make a comparison to anyone at his age, physical development and stage.  He's an undersized young kid with speed and talent and he could be great.  Or not.  Lets watch. And I was at the game he had his record-breaking period.  I have to say as fun as it was to watch, I'm getting a little tired of fans referring to that period as some sort of litmus proof that he's a one of a kind player.  Lots of players have had a few great shifts.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
    If lots of players have done it, why is he the one who holds the record? That game wasn't the litmus test. The game before when he scored 1 and added an assist and the way he finished the playoffs is the litmus test for me. In both game 7's I saw a much different player than I saw in the season's first half. That's the player I'm expecting to show up in camp.
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : If lots of players have done it, why is he the one who holds the record? That game wasn't the litmus test. The game before when he scored 1 and added an assist and the way he finished the playoffs is the litmus test for me. In both game 7's I saw a much different player than I saw in the season's first half. That's the player I'm expecting to show up in camp.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    I didnt say lots of players have done it.  I said, lots of players have had great handfuls of shifts, meaning a great period doesn't prove anything.  The 
    constant use of his record as somehow proving something doesnt work for me.

    I'd be more likely to point to a 34 goal rookie year as proof of future greatness.

    I think he will be wonderful and Im looking forward to watching his development, Im just saying the constant referral of 4 points in a period just goes so far.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : I didnt say lots of players have done it.  I said, lots of players have had great handfuls of shifts, meaning a great period doesn't prove anything.  The  constant use of his record as somehow proving something doesnt work for me. I'd be more likely to point to a 34 goal rookie year as proof of future greatness. I think he will be wonderful and Im looking forward to watching his development, Im just saying the constant referral of 4 points in a period just goes so far.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]
    Records are what they are.......something that no one else has ever done. He picked a huge time to have his breakout and Boston doesn't win that series(or the Cup) without his contribution. Regarding the 34 goal rookie season, if it's Bure you're referencing, it's already been established that he was a 21 year old. Let's see where Seguin is during his 3rd season if we're to compare their overall numbers. People so easily dismiss the fact that Seguin wasn't your average rookie trying to crack a non-playoff roster. He played short minutes on the Stanley Cup champions. I thought his game improved by leaps and bounds and that he deserved every minute of ice (and more) that he saw in the finals. I expect him to be 1 of Boston's top 5 scorers this year. He shows lots of reason to be excited about his future.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from pauly1. Show pauly1's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Let's all ignore bure's age when he came in, and where he had been playing, and then evaluate.
    Just to be mentioned in the same breathe is something special....don't you think?
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]OK, as the Canucks fan on this board, I've got to take some issue with the Seguin-Bure comparison.  Pavel scored 34 goals in his rookie season; Seguin had 11.  I was there at his first game vs. the Jets in November of 91 (he didn't even have a training camp with the Canucks in his first year), and even though he didn't score, he blew through the entire Jets team on several end-to-end rushes, and had the crowd on their feet every time. Seguin's good, no doubt, and perhaps one can make the case that his "toolbox" of hockey skills makes him a candidate to one day be as good as Bure.  It's like watching the NHL draft, and when they describe each draftee, they compare him to a player "... he's like Patrick Marleau.." for example.  But they're only describing physical type, style of play, basic hockey skills.  Longevity is the true mark of greatness. Just for fun, I found TSN's Top 10 Bure goals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5VlMjeLXbw
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
    Remember Seguin's first goal? Shutup.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Ok...I'm as much a fan as the next guy, but what's this massive "skill" that you guys are seeing that I'm not? Don't get me wrong, I think Seguin will be an excellent player only by virtue of the fact that he was not a major liability at the NHL level while just about anyone else his age would have been. He had flashes. His talent in practice settings reveals that he does have a great skill set for his age. But as far as game-condition skill goes, I didn't consistently see vision, amazing passes, quick release, ability to win puck battles, etc. Apart from 6 shifts in one Tampa series game, I never saw him elevate the game of his linemates. I didn't see him make amazing backchecking plays or impose his will on the opposing defence. There certainly were glimpses of all this, but in a vacuum if it weren't Seguin with all his pedigree, what would we honestly say about the player we saw on the ice last year? I hope more than anything else he finds a way to demand a top-6 position next year. I wouldn't be surprised if he does end up in the upper-echelon of NHL players one day. But to compare him with any of these guys so far doesn't hold true for me. If the discussion was Marchand reminds us of Linseman, then I see it. But Seguin reminds us of Bure or Yzerman? I don't see it. Not yet anyway.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]

    I do think that comparing him to Yzerman at this early stage in his career might be jumping the gun a little but I am not sure what you were watching last year.  His struggles came a little bit from not always knowing where to be on the ice in regards to CJ's systems and his lack of strength playing against men.  When he did have the puck however and was allowed to play more of an offensive game he was right up there in vision and passing with anyone except for Krejci and his quick release is 2nd to none on the team.  He could not impose his will due to the strength issue (as you indicated) and he was handcuffed by CJ so he did not get a lot of chances to show his offensive skills but the glimpses we saw were unbelievable.  Go back and look at his 14 goals (11 regular season and 3 play-off) and there were very few if any that were ugly goals.  I would say over half of them were highlight reel.  He proved that he could be on the ice and not be a defensive liability in the biggest games he could possibly play in. With increased strength and perhaps a bit of a longer leash from CJ, this kid should blossom into a great player.  How good, will be up to him and how much he wants it, but the skills are there.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Having just spent the weekend at my parents home in my childhood bedroom where my Pavel Bure "Russian Rocket" poster still hangs next to my Adam "Smasher" Oates one, I was pleased to see this thread.  I can see the comparison.  Unlike what one poster said Bure was not known so much for his end-to-end rushes (few are) but for finding a seam and breaking away from defenders in perfect time with a long lead pass. Seguin also has this knack and the natural tools to pull it off.  I'll take some heat for this but the guy he reminds me of is Mario Lemieux.  The way he moves, his subtle hand fakes to beat defenders and his great finish and hockey sense remind me of him.  That and again, the knack for finding a seem and using sudden speed to take defenders off-guard.  I can say I see some of Bure in him, but I think he may be a better overall player.  Bure is maybe my favorite to watch of all time, but he had his flaws.  For those that don't want to speculate on Seguin's future, I don't know why you post on this thread.  It's the whole point of Bruins discussion forums.  For those who don't see Tyler's very high-end talent level... I'll see if I can find you some hockey glasses.  Speed, hand-eye coordination, finish, hockey sense, one-on-one moves, timing, 95 mph shot with a lighting release... it's all there.
     
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    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I don't think Dez was/is alluding to Seguin having Bure type numbers so quickly but more to what style of play he reminds you of. 
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : I do think that comparing him to Yzerman at this early stage in his career might be jumping the gun a little but I am not sure what you were watching last year.  His struggles came a little bit from not always knowing where to be on the ice in regards to CJ's systems and his lack of strength playing against men.  When he did have the puck however and was allowed to play more of an offensive game he was right up there in vision and passing with anyone except for Krejci and his quick release is 2nd to none on the team.  He could not impose his will due to the strength issue (as you indicated) and he was handcuffed by CJ so he did not get a lot of chances to show his offensive skills but the glimpses we saw were unbelievable.  Go back and look at his 14 goals (11 regular season and 3 play-off) and there were very few if any that were ugly goals.  I would say over half of them were highlight reel.  He proved that he could be on the ice and not be a defensive liability in the biggest games he could possibly play in. With increased strength and perhaps a bit of a longer leash from CJ, this kid should blossom into a great player.  How good, will be up to him and how much he wants it, but the skills are there.
    Posted by huntbri[/QUOTE]

    You are spot-on and I don't think we disagree. I keep saying over and over the guy's going to be great based on his age and rate of growth. We all agree on this.

    Yes, he had some great moments, but can we realistically say there were more flashes of brilliance than any other average 3rd line winger in the league? Peverly blows me away at times the same way Seguin does....but over the average, he's Peverly and not Lemieux. Bergeron no doubt has greatness in him....and what makes him a star is the rate at which he is able to make a difference on the play. It's almost every shift.

    So to answer your question as to what I was watching: it was 903:32 minutes in ice time for Seguin during the regular season, plus another 137:35 mins in the playoffs. For over a thousand minutes of NHL time, I ballpark roughly 50-75 or so beautiful plays. One beautiful move, burst of speed to open ice, excellent read, great shot or other type of stand-out decision per game. It's nothing to be ashamed about for a kid his age, but a top-6 forward in the NHL needs to make 1-2 stand-out plays a period. Of course, a lot of this is the "sight test" and not really academic. Some of you may have seen more out of him than I did, some less.

    I think of the times we all thought Horton was floating during the mid-season, yet he would still be out there banging bodies, hitting posts, making great plays in transition and shutting down guys in his own zone. For me, the times that Seguin wasn't jumping off the tv screen, he also wasn't doing those things that Horton was doing during his slump.

    I'm talking in circles, though. Peace and love. He'll get there, that's all I'm saying. That, and I'm enjoying this thread and everyone's opinion immensely during an otherwise slow summer.
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I don't think Dez was/is alluding to Seguin having Bure type numbers so quickly but more to what style of play he reminds you of. 
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]
    Exactly right Sandog.
     
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    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : You are spot-on and I don't think we disagree. I keep saying over and over the guy's going to be great based on his age and rate of growth. We all agree on this. Yes, he had some great moments, but can we realistically say there were more flashes of brilliance than any other average 3rd line winger in the league? Peverly blows me away at times the same way Seguin does....but over the average, he's Peverly and not Lemieux. Bergeron no doubt has greatness in him....and what makes him a star is the rate at which he is able to make a difference on the play. It's almost every shift. So to answer your question as to what I was watching: it was 903:32 minutes in ice time for Seguin during the regular season, plus another 137:35 mins in the playoffs. For over a thousand minutes of NHL time, I ballpark roughly 50-75 or so beautiful plays. One beautiful move, burst of speed to open ice, excellent read, great shot or other type of stand-out decision per game. It's nothing to be ashamed about for a kid his age, but a top-6 forward in the NHL needs to make 1-2 stand-out plays a period. Of course, a lot of this is the "sight test" and not really academic. Some of you may have seen more out of him than I did, some less. I think of the times we all thought Horton was floating during the mid-season, yet he would still be out there banging bodies, hitting posts, making great plays in transition and shutting down guys in his own zone. For me, the times that Seguin wasn't jumping off the tv screen, he also wasn't doing those things that Horton was doing during his slump. I'm talking in circles, though. Peace and love. He'll get there, that's all I'm saying. That, and I'm enjoying this thread and everyone's opinion immensely during an otherwise slow summer.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]

    I think we pretty much agree.  Seguin does need to be more consistent and prove he is not just a sporadic big time player.  I think some added size and experience will make it very likely that this will happen but it is not a guarantee.  I too am enjoying this thread and the one on former Bruin Jumbo Joe.  Good chatting with you man.
     

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