Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I hear much talk about Seguin's "flashes of brilliance". And they're certainly there, and I'm not diminishing his POTENTIAL to become a player with Bure-like stats. 

    But, Bure was amazing right out of the starting gate.  With no NHL training camp, his first game was one month into the season, the point where most players are consistently running in their top gear, and he looked faster than every other player on the ice by at least 10%.  His 34 goals in 65 games that season extrapolates into a 44 goal rookie season, and it would likely have been more, if he had a training camp to acclimatize to linemates. 

    I get the argument about Bure being 21, but remember also that his first NHL game was also his first introduction to "North American-style" hockey.  He didn't play in the CHL, and had only limited international exposure.  Everything prior to that was Central Red Army.

    When looking at immediate impact upon the game, there's no comparison.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Because he wasn't 19 when he entered the league but 21 after having again played with men in the KHL distinctive advantages.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I hear much talk about Seguin's "flashes of brilliance". And they're certainly there, and I'm not diminishing his POTENTIAL to become a player with Bure-like stats.  But, Bure was amazing right out of the starting gate.  With no NHL training camp, his first game was one month into the season, the point where most players are consistently running in their top gear, and he looked faster than every other player on the ice by at least 10%.  His 34 goals in 65 games that season extrapolates into a 44 goal rookie season, and it would likely have been more, if he had a training camp to acclimatize to linemates.  I get the argument about Bure being 21, but remember also that his first NHL game was also his first introduction to "North American-style" hockey.  He didn't play in the CHL, and had only limited international exposure.  Everything prior to that was Central Red Army. When looking at immediate impact upon the game, there's no comparison.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
    It doesn't seem like you do get it. If you did, you'd stop trying to compare the numbers of a 21 year old Bure to those of a 19 year old Seguin. Sergei Makarov had 86 points as a rookie in his 1st year of North American hockey. Does that mean he was better than Bure?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I hear much talk about Seguin's "flashes of brilliance". And they're certainly there, and I'm not diminishing his POTENTIAL to become a player with Bure-like stats.  But, Bure was amazing right out of the starting gate.  With no NHL training camp, his first game was one month into the season, the point where most players are consistently running in their top gear, and he looked faster than every other player on the ice by at least 10%.  His 34 goals in 65 games that season extrapolates into a 44 goal rookie season, and it would likely have been more, if he had a training camp to acclimatize to linemates.  I get the argument about Bure being 21, but remember also that his first NHL game was also his first introduction to "North American-style" hockey.  He didn't play in the CHL, and had only limited international exposure.  Everything prior to that was Central Red Army. When looking at immediate impact upon the game, there's no comparison.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    I'm not sure of the Red Army team that year, but historically the Red Army had one of the best hockey teams in the entire world. How does Bure playing with them until he's 21 not accelerate his development?  To make this a fair comparison, you need to check Seguin's #'s in 2012-13, when he will be 20 turning 21.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : How does Bure playing with them until he's 21 not accelerate his development?  To make this a fair comparison, you need to check Seguin's #'s in 2012-13, when he will be 20 turning 21.Posted by scooter244[/QUOTE]

    And Scooter you could say would Bure put up 50 in Julien's system even at 21 ? Hypothetical scenarios abound...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : And Scooter you could say would Bure put up 50 in Julien's system even at 21 ? Hypothetical scenarios abound...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    And in a different era...
    No, direct comparisons of numbers are silly.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I'm a huge Bure fan but I don't know why you keep bringing up stats.  You are comparing people of different ages and different times.  Bure debuted the season before the NHL had it's most offensively prolific season ever.  It was the height of all-out offence.  Bure did not have limited international experience, he played on a line with Fedorov and Mogilny on what was considered one of the greatest international lines of all time.  His World Juniors ( he played in 3 ) stats are off the charts. 

    The question is does Seguin play a style like Bure, and I think there is no question that he brings some similar elements to the game.  Bure was 10% faster than the other players?  Sounds alot like Seguin.  Expect him to be scoring 30 by the time he's 21. 

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I hear much talk about Seguin's "flashes of brilliance". And they're certainly there, and I'm not diminishing his POTENTIAL to become a player with Bure-like stats.  But, Bure was amazing right out of the starting gate.  With no NHL training camp, his first game was one month into the season, the point where most players are consistently running in their top gear, and he looked faster than every other player on the ice by at least 10%.  His 34 goals in 65 games that season extrapolates into a 44 goal rookie season, and it would likely have been more, if he had a training camp to acclimatize to linemates.  I get the argument about Bure being 21, but remember also that his first NHL game was also his first introduction to "North American-style" hockey.  He didn't play in the CHL, and had only limited international exposure.  Everything prior to that was Central Red Army. When looking at immediate impact upon the game, there's no comparison.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Style of play for Seguin ? I really couldn't think of anyone . Maybe Pat LaFontaine as Crowls suggested but I don't even think that was a good comparison.

    btw I watched a kid this year in the OHL whose style reminded me a little bit of Bure's. Another Russian Nail Yakupov.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I'm a huge Bure fan but I don't know why you keep bringing up stats.  You are comparing people of different ages and different times.  Bure debuted the season before the NHL had it's most offensively prolific season ever.  It was the height of all-out offence.  Bure did not have limited international experience, he played on a line with Fedorov and Mogilny on what was considered one of the greatest international lines of all time.  His World Juniors ( he played in 3 ) stats are off the charts.  The question is does Seguin play a style like Bure, and I think there is no question that he brings some similar elements to the game.  Bure was 10% faster than the other players?  Sounds alot like Seguin.  Expect him to be scoring 30 by the time he's 21.  In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    I hope you are right OC.  Maybe he even does it this upcoming season before he is 21. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure......... : I hope you are right OC.  Maybe he even does it this upcoming season before he is 21. 
    Posted by huntbri[/QUOTE]
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Seguin = Bure? Wow that is insane. 

    Seguin = Afinogenov . For now , its a comparison that makes sense. Seguin has been a breakaway scoring highlight reel player and not much more. 

    His passing is worse than i imagined. Defensive play is poor, and never wins any faceoff draws. 

    Until i can see more , i see his ceiling at 60 points a season.



     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chef09. Show Chef09's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE] The highlight reel stuff still reminds me a little of Pat LaFontaine, though. 
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]
    Nice.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chef09. Show Chef09's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I don't know if he reminds me of anyone but the kid held his own and contributed in the last 2 rounds of the playoffs. When he was called upon to deliver(Bergy concussed) he did. He had the right players around him to succeed. A couple of wicked passes up ice to a streaking Ryder (who scored) taking advantage of bad line changes etc. Bure was known for his scoring ability - I don't remember talking about a great play or pass that he made. Seguin surprised me in the playoffs. Let's hope the SC hangover is short and he continues to improve.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]I was trying to think of a past/current player that Seguin reminds me of and Pavel is the guy I settled on. Both guys have good shots and speed to burn. Some guys can be fancy and stickhandle around the D, some guys can chip it to the outside and outskate the D. Bure and Seguin are players that can beat a D in any way it takes. Most players need to slow down in order to stickhandle but Bure and Seguin are both capable of making moves at top speed. It's way easier said than done. Just ask Paille......Anyway, that's who I see when I watch Seguin. Who, if anyone, does Tyler remind you of?
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]
    Hey Dez. That's a fair comparison; but I can never ever see Seguin doing this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oYABjkWiJc&feature=related
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Seguin = Bure? Wow that is insane.  Seguin = Afinogenov . For now , its a comparison that makes sense. Seguin has been a breakaway scoring highlight reel player and not much more.  His passing is worse than i imagined. Defensive play is poor, and never wins any faceoff draws.  Until i can see more , i see his ceiling at 60 points a season.
    Posted by yaz16[/QUOTE]

    Really?  You're that negative about him?  That's nuts.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Seguin = Bure? Wow that is insane.  Seguin = Afinogenov . For now , its a comparison that makes sense. Seguin has been a breakaway scoring highlight reel player and not much more.  His passing is worse than i imagined. Defensive play is poor, and never wins any faceoff draws.  Until i can see more , i see his ceiling at 60 points a season.
    Posted by yaz16[/QUOTE]

    Maybe the Bruins should have drafted Jeff Skinner instead of Seguin ? Wait a minute , I forgot his skating isn't up to NHL standards. You are blessed with the gift of knowing how these teenage kids will turn out. I say trade Seguin now. Why ? Just from reading your post.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    First, Seguin will miss Ryder as they had a good understanding and complimentary skills. So, yeah, next year he'll quite likely score 15-20 goals on 5-5 play on the third line; good not great in terms of results. I think he will shine on the power play, however, and by the time he's 21 (in two seasons) really come into his own as one of the fastest and most talented players in the NHL. So including the power play I think he'll end up with 30+ goals and about the same in assists next year. For what it's worth his finishing skills remind me of Rick Middleton, but I think Seguin skates better.  youtube of "Nifty",
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHquB8KYU8k
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Afinogenov?? he wouldnt know his own goalie if he tripped over him. While some could argue it's unfair to compare Seguin to Bure,Lafontaine etc.. comparing him to Afinogenov is totally the other way.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Seguin = Bure? Wow that is insane.  Seguin = Afinogenov . For now , its a comparison that makes sense. Seguin has been a breakaway scoring highlight reel player and not much more.  His passing is worse than i imagined. Defensive play is poor, and never wins any faceoff draws.  Until i can see more , i see his ceiling at 60 points a season.
    Posted by yaz16[/QUOTE]

    Face-off% was 49.5% as a rookie.  He was credited with 150 wins and 153 losses, so probably more accurate to say that he wins about as many as he looses.

    Krejci was 48.7%.  Looking forward to your "Krejci stinks because he is worse than Seguin on draws" thread.

    A couple more guys that Seguin was better on draws:
    Eric Staal: 48.0%
    Stamkos: 46.5%
    Getzlaf: 45.8%

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Be careful around Crowls he's got his Excel spreadsheets ready for quick draw. Jeesh I hate it when stats are so easily accessible to squash such nonsense LoL!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Funny SanDog, a little research wouldn't kill anyone would it?  Thinking before posting should always be encouraged.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    I'll add I thought Seguin made some terrific passes this year. I remember saying wow to myself on more than one ocassion. For me it's as simple as this, the kid has the tools, all of them, but he was drafted by a contending team that couldnt afford to just let him learn on the job like Taylor Hall. They couldnt justify him on the top 2 lines like Skinner because they have depth up fron with experienced players. I have no doubt Hall and Skinner will be terrific NHLers, they benefited from the amount of ice time they got, but Seguin did get to be part of a Stanley Cup run, I'm sure he learned stuff from that that Hall and Skinner didnt get to witness.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    If you actually watch a Bruins hockey game you wouldn't need a spreadsheet to avoid making that ridiculous comment about TS.  Seguin and Afinogenov share little in common.  The post was meant to agitate.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    Well so much for the faceoff comments. Maybe the passing comments have some validity to them. And we all know that under Julien, he will turn a blind eye towards Seguin's defensive responsibilities.

    To heck with 60 points, I say a ceiling of 50 with no passing abilities and never crossing his own blueline to help out.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........

    In Response to Re: Seguin=Pavel Bure.........:
    [QUOTE]Well so much for the faceoff comments. Maybe the passing comments have some validity to them. And we all know that under Julien, he will turn a blind eye towards Seguin's defensive responsibilities. To heck with 60 points, I say a ceiling of 50 with no passing abilities and never crossing his own blueline to help out.
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Good point Chowdah, sounds like yaz expects Seguin to lead the team in points (60 points).  I like his enthusiasm.
     

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