"Seguin's Got To Become More Of A Professional" - Peter Chiarelli

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from jf19told_ya_so. Show jf19told_ya_so's posts

    Re:


    The Leafs fleeced the Bruins in the Kessell deal. One whimp forward, and one whimp defenseman for a bona fide superstar.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    I'm all for the idea of whatever it takes to get the most out of his skill set. He just needs to find some confidence again. I fully expect him to score 30+ with ease next year. He's also learned how to play in his own end so that should be seen as a positive also. He's still a kid trying to learn how to be a man. I have faith it can happen sooner than later. 

     


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     



    Good points all, dez.  Perhaps it's already started.  I can't remember his exact words but after Game 6 he looked pretty sincere in referencing the dedication and effort shown by Bergeron, Campbell and some other Bruins.  Sure, the team had just lost the Cup and he was emotional but his words seemed genuine.  He'll be fine and I look forward to him being the Bruins' leading goal scorer for years. 

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re:

    in some respects, Seguin is the replacement to Horton.  Or at least has got to become the 30-goal scorer and playoffs guy that  the B's need him to be. He can't afford to be a non-scorer, and he won't last in the NHL being a guy who doesn't at least show success on the scoresheet.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    fletch- do you attribute any of his struggles to position?  Kid excelled as a center, and "experts" have declared that to be his natural position.  Any chance we are seeing a natural center struggling to adapt to a less-familliar position? 

    Funny that the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons are being made in this thread as they were centers.  Shouldn't we be comparing him to Perry, Kane, Nash, Ryan or even Kessel?

     



    Similar to dez, I like use the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons more as a response to the people crowing about how Seguin needs to be tougher and physically win more battles.  I disagree and I think those two guys are exhibit A of how to use Seguins skill set the right way.  Sakic and Yzerman just avoided physical battles in playing to the advantages of their skill set.  Seguin will not become a better player by trying to be a power forward.

     

    Yzerman was always a comparison for Seguin, because Seguin always said that Yzerman was his hero growing up and the guy he tried to model his game after.  I like that.  A perfect role model for him, I think.

    But yeah, the position thing is tricky.  I don't know if he'd be better offensively at center or not (probably...?), but I do think he would not meet the all around expectations of a center in Julien's system too well.  At least not yet.  I don't know what to think about that really. 

    [/QUOTE]

    If he is supposed to have star potential CJ needs to let him have a FAIR shot at playing his natural  position. He has spent 3 years on the wing. It is time give him a legitimate shot at playing centre.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re:

    I think with Horton's decision it made PC do a quick turnaround in his thought process. Maybe he thought." Great now we really need to open up for top RW....Wait a minute...We have a potential top line RW in Tyler. He just needs a push, but what can we try different??...Something we haven't done already??? I know...I'll make it look like he's available on the market....Maybe that'll smarten him up...It may pee him off & get a burr under his saddle. I think I'll try this & see where it goes." 

    "Why is a puck called a puck? Because Dirty little bastar d was taken!"- Marty Brodeur

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re:

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

     

    I think with Horton's decision it made PC do a quick turnaround in his thought process. Maybe he thought." Great now we really need to open up for top RW....Wait a minute...We have a potential top line RW in Tyler. He just needs a push, but what can we try different??...Something we haven't done already??? I know...I'll make it look like he's available on the market....Maybe that'll smarten him up...It may pee him off & get a burr under his saddle. I think I'll try this & see where it goes." 

    "Why is a puck called a puck? Because Dirty little bastar d was taken!"- Marty Brodeur

     



    There you go, nite.  If this public declaration elicits the desired response both Seguin and the Bruins can only benefit much to the detriment of the rest of the league.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re:

    Sorry NeelyOrrBouque,  I have been dealing with login issues of BDC that are simply insane.  Most of the time I write long and no one reads, so I write short and I am exposed.  Ha.  Anyhoo, the Bs are in a tough position imo.  If Seguin responds next year with a great breakout superstar season, then I will think the same.  Did he mature or did he increase his trade value for PC to trade him (selfish retribution)?  The Bs will not get full value of his talent given those conditions as he has a history now once PC went public.  If he stays with the team then he will have to continue to produce, then why did he not do so in the SCF playoff year of 2013?  What motivation does a player need?  If he falls from grace (Pogues reference) then PC is blamed for ruining his career.  The Bs are in a bad place here.  If Seguin cannot get where he is and where he is going now at 21 not 19, then he will never get it.  Students in my classes were intelligent yet their maturity was certainly lacking at times.   At 21, well, you are a man.  

    As a side note and query: Marchand said of Bergeron, "he is what a father would want to have as his daughter's first boyfriend" or something like that.  So what does Marchand and Seguin suggest on their behavior?  Marchand at least produces, Seguin needs private and now public indignation for poor professionalism.  That is damning.  

     

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    It does not sound good at all.  First if the above "fun times" are true, secondly that the trade value is about the same as Dion Phaneuf at this point  given the public spanking.  Lastly, PC obviously is not going to trade him.  This is not a good sign in any shape and form for the Boston Bruins.  

    Don't judge me monkey!

     



    Why? This isn't one of your students that have failed after being called out. I think for a 21yr old making that kind of dough should be called out if he's not taking his role seriously. I applaude PC & the organization! Maybe they've protected the "rich brat!" enough! 

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re:

    Tyler's twitter page had to pick him up from school.  Picture of a dog looked like a mix breed of a pit bull it was funny lol. Not sure i would have posted it if I was Seguin , with the stuff PC said about him. The problem was the picture was kind of funny, but yes he does need to grow up a little.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    "How does being a pro translate?"

     It's not the physical prep so much as the mental - hitting the film room to know the tendencies of the defensemen so if you're up against Oduya or Hjalmarsson, you know whether they're stronger against a speed rush or a stop up or whatever.  Who has a good stick and who has great balance.  That kind of thing.  When you see Seguin doing the same thing against every defenseman, you know he's not adjusting his approach based on who he's up against.

    Same thing applies to winning puck battles.  What's the D likely to do in a 50/50 battle?  Is he a Boychuck who will take a hit and eat the puck to keep it safe, or is he a Ference who will move it quickly?  A Seidenberg who will deliver the hit to get position or a Chara who will use his frame to shield you off?  That's where the professionalism comes in.  I think Seguin wants to be more of a force off the cycle, but he's not prepared enough.  Everyone else knows what he can/will do in those situations, so they negate his talent advantages.  I don't think it's that he's a wuss anymore - not after the playoffs.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    Book- I get that, but what was his preparation last year when he scored 29 goals?  Is it different than Marchand?
    I also agree with you that there was more jam and desperation in his game as the playoffs advanced. 

    The timing of PC's comments are also a little curious given that Seguin was given some high-marks for reaching out to CJ to see how he could best help the team heading into the SCF.

    http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/blogs/mobileghmne/x1629901482/Lacking-goals-Seguin-seeks-out-advice-on-doing-little-things?rssfeed=true#axzz2XoxEMkLm

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to compare year to year, and the oddity of this shortened season is one of the reasons I would have hated for the Bruins to make a rash move with him.  Compressed schedule, little practice time for coaches to correct bad habits or suggest things to bust slumps, and even more importance on maintaining top physical preparation game to game.  Plus the Swiss A factor where he was playing centre in a less physical league.  A regular year, even an olympic year, will be a different beast.  I do think he isn't as professional as Marchand; Marchand is clearly a thinker.  To Fletch's point, he does things as though by instinct, but some of the things he does he does as though he's plotted them in his head and envisioned the right moment for them.  Visioning is a huge part of prep for a lot of players.  That day to day prep is about more than the legs - it's getting the brain in the right space to play your best game.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re:

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    Sorry NeelyOrrBouque,  I have been dealing with login issues of BDC that are simply insane.  Most of the time I write long and no one reads, so I write short and I am exposed.  Ha.  Anyhoo, the Bs are in a tough position imo.  If Seguin responds next year with a great breakout superstar season, then I will think the same.  Did he mature or did he increase his trade value for PC to trade him (selfish retribution)?  The Bs will not get full value of his talent given those conditions as he has a history now once PC went public.  If he stays with the team then he will have to continue to produce, then why did he not do so in the SCF playoff year of 2013?  What motivation does a player need?  If he falls from grace (Pogues reference) then PC is blamed for ruining his career.  The Bs are in a bad place here.  If Seguin cannot get where he is and where he is going now at 21 not 19, then he will never get it.  Students in my classes were intelligent yet their maturity was certainly lacking at times.   At 21, well, you are a man.  

    As a side note and query: Marchand said of Bergeron, "he is what a father would want to have as his daughter's first boyfriend" or something like that.  So what does Marchand and Seguin suggest on their behavior?  Marchand at least produces, Seguin needs private and now public indignation for poor professionalism.  That is damning.  

     

     


    Why? This isn't one of your students that have failed after being called out. I think for a 21yr old making that kind of dough should be called out if he's not taking his role seriously. I applaude PC & the organization! Maybe they've protected the "rich brat!" enough! 

     

     


    I do see how this can backfire Is, but I'm hoping that PC & B's know him well enough that they know what buttons to be pushed. I don't think having your GM call you out is as bad as a coach. The coach & your teammates you see everyday. The GM you may see, but you don't always talk. I spoke to my buddy who works with the Av's. He said he heard that Seguin missed some charity events this season & the B's weren't too happy about it. Maybe that's the "Professional" part that PC is eluding to, moreso than his overall game. 

     




     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re:

    I do see how this can backfire Is, but I'm hoping that PC & B's know him well enough that they know what buttons to be pushed. I don't think having your GM call you out is as bad as a coach. The coach & your teammates you see everyday. The GM you may see, but you don't always talk. I spoke to my buddy who works with the Av's. He said he heard that Seguin missed some charity events this season & the B's weren't too happy about it. Maybe that's the "Professional" part that PC is eluding to, moreso than his overall game. 

     [/QUOTE]

    If it's true he missed some charity events nite, then yes, that could be a big part of the issue.  Also, when we see Jagr skating by himself after a playoff game, totally committing himself to being the best player he can be at age 41 - it makes you wonder if Tyler is doing all the little things that will help him reach the next level as well.

    All in all though, I think we are making too much out of this issue, and it's because he had a bad playoff.  If you look at the big picture though, he's had a pretty good 3 years.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:



    fletch- do you attribute any of his struggles to position?  Kid excelled as a center, and "experts" have declared that to be his natural position.  Any chance we are seeing a natural center struggling to adapt to a less-familliar position? 

     

    Funny that the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons are being made in this thread as they were centers.  Shouldn't we be comparing him to Perry, Kane, Nash, Ryan or even Kessel?



    He isn't struggling because he's on the wing instead of at center.  Centers can play wing all day. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    fletch- do you attribute any of his struggles to position?  Kid excelled as a center, and "experts" have declared that to be his natural position.  Any chance we are seeing a natural center struggling to adapt to a less-familliar position? 

     

     

    Funny that the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons are being made in this thread as they were centers.  Shouldn't we be comparing him to Perry, Kane, Nash, Ryan or even Kessel?

     



    He isn't struggling because he's on the wing instead of at center.  Centers can play wing all day. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can play? Agree.

    Excel? Not as sure.

    Do you think Krejci or Bergeron would be as successful at RW?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hangnail. Show hangnail's posts

    Re:

    Maybe CJ thinks Seguin is a liability on faceoffs and he's not putting in the required work to improve on it.  That's a big reason for keeping him on the wing.




     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    fletch- do you attribute any of his struggles to position?  Kid excelled as a center, and "experts" have declared that to be his natural position.  Any chance we are seeing a natural center struggling to adapt to a less-familliar position? 

     

     

     

    Funny that the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons are being made in this thread as they were centers.  Shouldn't we be comparing him to Perry, Kane, Nash, Ryan or even Kessel?

     

     



    He isn't struggling because he's on the wing instead of at center.  Centers can play wing all day. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can play? Agree.

     

    Excel? Not as sure.

    Do you think Krejci or Bergeron would be as successful at RW?

    [/QUOTE]

    Here's a better question.......... as a team would the Bruins excel with Seguin in one of the top 2 spots at centre instead of Bergeron or Krejci ? 

    I'm thinking not. RW is his position until he shows he's better then these two.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re:

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    fletch- do you attribute any of his struggles to position?  Kid excelled as a center, and "experts" have declared that to be his natural position.  Any chance we are seeing a natural center struggling to adapt to a less-familliar position? 

     

     

     

     

    Funny that the Sakic/Yzerman comparisons are being made in this thread as they were centers.  Shouldn't we be comparing him to Perry, Kane, Nash, Ryan or even Kessel?

     

     

     



    He isn't struggling because he's on the wing instead of at center.  Centers can play wing all day. 

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Can play? Agree.

     

     

    Excel? Not as sure.

    Do you think Krejci or Bergeron would be as successful at RW?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Here's a better question.......... as a team would the Bruins excel with Seguin in one of the top 2 spots at centre instead of Bergeron or Krejci ? 

    I'm thinking not. RW is his position until he shows he's better then these two.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't disagree with that at all.

    We're also talking about two elite 2-way centermen, perfect for CJ's system. 

    By the way, how does Seguin show he's better than them when he is not given the chance?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

     

    "How does being a pro translate?"

     It's not the physical prep so much as the mental - hitting the film room to know the tendencies of the defensemen so if you're up against Oduya or Hjalmarsson, you know whether they're stronger against a speed rush or a stop up or whatever.  Who has a good stick and who has great balance.  That kind of thing.  When you see Seguin doing the same thing against every defenseman, you know he's not adjusting his approach based on who he's up against.

    Same thing applies to winning puck battles.  What's the D likely to do in a 50/50 battle?  Is he a Boychuck who will take a hit and eat the puck to keep it safe, or is he a Ference who will move it quickly?  A Seidenberg who will deliver the hit to get position or a Chara who will use his frame to shield you off?  That's where the professionalism comes in.  I think Seguin wants to be more of a force off the cycle, but he's not prepared enough.  Everyone else knows what he can/will do in those situations, so they negate his talent advantages.  I don't think it's that he's a wuss anymore - not after the playoffs.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

     



    Book- I get that, but what was his preparation last year when he scored 29 goals?  Is it different than Marchand?
    I also agree with you that there was more jam and desperation in his game as the playoffs advanced. 

     

    The timing of PC's comments are also a little curious given that Seguin was given some high-marks for reaching out to CJ to see how he could best help the team heading into the SCF.

    http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/blogs/mobileghmne/x1629901482/Lacking-goals-Seguin-seeks-out-advice-on-doing-little-things?rssfeed=true#axzz2XoxEMkLm

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to compare year to year, and the oddity of this shortened season is one of the reasons I would have hated for the Bruins to make a rash move with him.  Compressed schedule, little practice time for coaches to correct bad habits or suggest things to bust slumps, and even more importance on maintaining top physical preparation game to game.  Plus the Swiss A factor where he was playing centre in a less physical league.  A regular year, even an olympic year, will be a different beast.  I do think he isn't as professional as Marchand; Marchand is clearly a thinker.  To Fletch's point, he does things as though by instinct, but some of the things he does he does as though he's plotted them in his head and envisioned the right moment for them.  Visioning is a huge part of prep for a lot of players.  That day to day prep is about more than the legs - it's getting the brain in the right space to play your best game.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Maybe I'm just too out of touch, but film and visioning?  That's what's holding him back? Ok.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:


    Here's a better question.......... as a team would the Bruins excel with Seguin in one of the top 2 spots at centre instead of Bergeron or Krejci ? 

    I'm thinking not. RW is his position until he shows he's better then these two.



    I don't disagree with that at all.

     

    We're also talking about two elite 2-way centermen, perfect for CJ's system. 

    By the way, how does Seguin show he's better than them when he is not given the chance?




    He has to earn it.  You don't shift a top player out of a position where they excell to accommodate a guy who isn't performing to expectations.  That's a last resort and you use it when you're convinced he's exhausted all reasonable efforts to be an impact player at RW.  Otherwise, he could just sulk until they made him a centre again.  Right now, he hasn't consistently shwon the defensive ability or the faceoff prowess to displace either of them, and it's touch and go whether his offense would significantly grow at C.  If he wants that spot, make him take it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In response to Crowls2424's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Here's a better question.......... as a team would the Bruins excel with Seguin in one of the top 2 spots at centre instead of Bergeron or Krejci ? 

    I'm thinking not. RW is his position until he shows he's better then these two.



    I don't disagree with that at all.

     

    We're also talking about two elite 2-way centermen, perfect for CJ's system. 

    By the way, how does Seguin show he's better than them when he is not given the chance?

     




     

    He has to earn it.  You don't shift a top player out of a position where they excell to accommodate a guy who isn't performing to expectations.  That's a last resort and you use it when you're convinced he's exhausted all reasonable efforts to be an impact player at RW.  Otherwise, he could just sulk until they made him a centre again.  Right now, he hasn't consistently shwon the defensive ability or the faceoff prowess to displace either of them, and it's touch and go whether his offense would significantly grow at C.  If he wants that spot, make him take it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Agree with most this Book.  One could argue that he will never be better than those two guys in CJ's system, so RW it is. 

    Challenging the bolded part.  Tell me more about where you have seen a sample large enough of him at center to draw this conclusion.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re:

    "Samsonov  66 goals   77 assists  143 pts    237 games      .603 pts/game avg

      Seguin       56 goals   65 assists  121 pts    203 games      .596 pts/game avg"

     

    That is very interesting

     

    "1. Seguin's play doesn't progress as much as hoped

    2. Bs acquire Jagr and bump Seguin to the 3rd line

    3. Horton indicated he's leaving and a Line 1 RW spot is open, so....

    4. PC hosts a meeting with Vinny

    5. Shops Seguin, but only for only a huge return so therefore likely smoke & mirrors

    6. Makes these comments

    All are simply steps to tell their young star that the top line RW isn't going to be handed to him. He needs to earn it through total commitment on and off the ice. Can't see why anyone would have a problem with that, especially knowing that they absolutely would have made overtures to him in private before anything went public."

     

    ^This^ goes with Dez's comment...PC is treating Seguin properly in this case.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re:


    I think the thought that playing center could fix anything is flawed.  It's not his natural position, cuz he's basically never played it in the pros.  Center is a more difficult position to play, there are components to it(faceoffs), that would be hopelessly weak, and that overall "cerebral" thing most of us agree on, is even more important when functioning at a high level playing center.  Add the fact that this team already has 2 of the best, puts things further out in left field.

    The toughness thing doesn't mean Lucic style either.  Sakic, Yzerman, Krejki are examples of the type of tough Seguin needs to find.  Despite his commitment to the gym, none of that translates at all to a willingness, and hunger to compete.  I agree he doesn't need to expend more energy....work harder.  It's not about effort, and I'm not sure it's about maturity either....unfortunately.

    I've been thinking for quite some time....that Seguin is a very unintelligent hockey player.  I don't think that can be taught.  It's one of those intangibles like skill.  That can't really be taught either.  It can be enhanced, and improved upon, but copious amounts have to exist from the get-go.

    Those that excell at the NHL level offensively over the long haul, are always highly intelligent.  Even with lessor skills, the smart players always rise to the top.  Danglers, have a very short shelf life, and danglers who don't score 30, but play well defensively don't earn upwards of 6 mil per for eternity.  At that pay scale, Seguin needs something to hang his hat on.  I don't think his fiercest supporters could come up with anything right now.  He needs to find that quick.

    Having said all that, I believe he can be a really good offensive player, but he's going to have to listen hard, make some fundamental changes, and play strictly by the playbook.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re:

    In response to stevegm's comment:


    I think the thought that playing center could fix anything is flawed.  It's not his natural position, cuz he's basically never played it in the pros.  Center is a more difficult position to play, there are components to it(faceoffs), that would be hopelessly weak, and that overall "cerebral" thing most of us agree on, is even more important when functioning at a high level playing center.  Add the fact that this team already has 2 of the best, puts things further out in left field.

    The toughness thing doesn't mean Lucic style either.  Sakic, Yzerman, Krejki are examples of the type of tough Seguin needs to find.  Despite his commitment to the gym, none of that translates at all to a willingness, and hunger to compete.  I agree he doesn't need to expend more energy....work harder.  It's not about effort, and I'm not sure it's about maturity either....unfortunately.

    I've been thinking for quite some time....that Seguin is a very unintelligent hockey player.  I don't think that can be taught.  It's one of those intangibles like skill.  That can't really be taught either.  It can be enhanced, and improved upon, but copious amounts have to exist from the get-go.

    Those that excell at the NHL level offensively over the long haul, are always highly intelligent.  Even with lessor skills, the smart players always rise to the top.  Danglers, have a very short shelf life, and danglers who don't score 30, but play well defensively don't earn upwards of 6 mil per for eternity.  At that pay scale, Seguin needs something to hang his hat on.  I don't think his fiercest supporters could come up with anything right now.  He needs to find that quick.

    Having said all that, I believe he can be a really good offensive player, but he's going to have to listen hard, make some fundamental changes, and play strictly by the playbook.


    "a willingness and hunger to compete"   -perfect!

    Thank God somebody gets it - Nobody ever said he needs to fight ,run someone over, or throw bone crushing hits all over the ice. Just go get the puck without fear.

    I also believe that the "hockey sense" thing is about the same issue - it 99.9% of the time results in him taking the path of least resistance which makes it seem like a low IQ play...unless an underlying and well disguised issue is how do I do this without risking making contact. It actually takes an immense amount of talent to do that.

    Time to jump in the deep end - without holding your nose

    It isn't any more complex than that -  

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    I think that if I had to choose between Seguin playing harder or playing smarter, I would take the latter.

    I think the effort is there, but its also quite apparent that he isn't a power forward.  Players like Sakic and Yzerman did not excel by physically winning battles in the corners, and they frequently avoided those battles with a blend of skill and smarts.

    To me Seguin has the skill, and he has the hustle.  What seems to be missing are the quick instincts to make the best play and adjust on the fly.  He seemed very slow to comprehend that he would not be able to skate around guys like Keith and Seabrook and almost looked unsure of how to adjust to plan B.

    The calls for him to somehow learn to bowl people over and play like a power forward seem woefully misguided.  Play to your strengths Tyler. 

     



    This seems to be a major problem with him so far and not being able to figure it out yet seems to lend credence to the idea that he can't figure it out. I mean he watches game tape, talks to coaches and teammates yet we see the same moves and reactions time after time. Lots of speed, lots of skill but not being able to adjust is a problem. 

     

     



    Yeah, I don't think it matters how smart or informed you are if it doesn't become part of your instincts in a game as fast as hockey.  Keith almost seem to bait Seguin -- show him the outside lane when he had some speed going and then take it away.  Seguin simply couldn't react and adjust fast enough.  That's where I appreciate Marchand.  He seems to have that split second instinct to make the right play, whether it be to dash forward, sneak a shot, delay, curl back, etc.  It's hard to defend a guy that can do 4 different things in a split second.

     

    Seguin sometimes seems stuck in neutral when plan A is suddenly taken away.  I'm not seeing the ability to make quick, decisive adjustments on the fly.  Maybe that comes with more confidence or more focus and training.  My fear is that good instincts seem pretty hard to learn and if they don't show up by the 4th or 5th year, they may not be there.

    For the record, I think Seguin is going to keep getting better and be a point per game guy, but I worry about his big game performance and I disagree with the assessment that he necessarily needs to work harder or be more physical.  I think his problems are cerebral at this point.

    [/QUOTE]
    Agree with your assessment Fletch...the game never slows down for Seguin.  He seems to have 1 gear both physically and mentally and that gear is high speed.  This works nicely when it is a bang-bang play like the passes to Kelly and Paille in the playoffs as he did not have too think too much and let his skill takeover; however, he is not the type of player that will slow it up to hit the trailing Dman or late forward coming in...and this is the cerebral part that DK, Marchand, bergeron, Sakic, and yzerman all possessed.   you need this cerebral part come playoff time to make the big plays...you especially need this cerebral part as to be a top center in the NHL.  I'm not sure this is something you can work on.  The best hope is that he become more like a Pavel Bure type player..  not sure if this can be done in CJs system but it is way more realistic comp. than Sakic et al given his skill set.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re:

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     


    "a willingness and hunger to compete"   -perfect!

    Thank God somebody gets it - Nobody ever said he needs to fight ,run someone over, or throw bone crushing hits all over the ice. Just go get the puck without fear.

    I also believe that the "hockey sense" thing is about the same issue - it 99.9% of the time results in him taking the path of least resistance which makes it seem like a low IQ play...unless an underlying and well disguised issue is how do I do this without risking making contact. It actually takes an immense amount of talent to do that.

    Time to jump in the deep end - without holding your nose

    It isn't any more complex than that -  

     

     



    Excellent post, JW.  In fact, we'd be shocked if he tried to play like David Backes.  This kid has elite-player skill and despite his lack of goal-scoring in the playoffs I thought he did sometimes get in the mix in front of the net.  Datsyuk and Zetterberg don't knock people around but they dog the puck against anyone and all the while put up points. 

     

    I thought your take on the mindset involving the clever aspects of attempting to accomplish something on ice without involving the dangers of physicality was brilliant.  Immediately made me think of Phil Kessel who, following this perspective has made a successful and lucrative career performing in pretty much exactly the manner you suggest.  Cheers!

     

Share