Serious Question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Serious Question

    ...How did we swindle Chris Bourque for Zach Hamill?

    To date, Zach Hamill has not lived up to expectations; however, Bourque led his league (not team) in scoring.  (93 pts in 73 games).

    I understand that Bourque is quite undersized for a wing; however, considering his pedigree (son of Hall - of - famer) and his breakout year last year; the trade looks very lopsided to me.

    Am I missing something?  Noteworthy: Bourque has 28 pts in Providence this year compared to Caron's 9.  Caron has one of the worst +/- in prov.

    You may see Bourque on our third line on the opener!  I was never overly high on Caron.  I would personally prefer to see Spooner get the shot; however, Bourque may be more "NHL ready."

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    Bourque was set to be UFA last July, and was supposedly going to walk as he wasn't thrilled with the Capitals organization. I think part of that trade was the Caps at least trying to get something for Bourque before he walked away for nothing.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to Drewski5's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ...How did we swindle Chris Bourque for Zach Hamill?

    To date, Zach Hamill has not lived up to expectations; however, Bourque led his league (not team) in scoring.  (93 pts in 73 games).

    I understand that Bourque is quite undersized for a wing; however, considering his pedigree (son of Hall - of - famer) and his breakout year last year; the trade looks very lopsided to me.

    Am I missing something?  Noteworthy: Bourque has 28 pts in Providence this year compared to Caron's 9.  Caron has one of the worst +/- in prov.

    You may see Bourque on our third line on the opener!  I was never overly high on Caron.  I would personally prefer to see Spooner get the shot; however, Bourque may be more "NHL ready."

    [/QUOTE]

    Really Drew, this is your big question? Boston acquired a career minor leaguer for a guy who was a disappointment. Nobody got swindled on the deal. Hamill actually has more goals than Bourque so far this year while taking half the shots. He also had a better year than Bourque last year considering he dressed for 16 NHL games while Bourque was breaking out in the AHL. Hamill also has equalled Bourque's NHL points total in 13 fewer games. Let me guess, you're probably also amazed that PC would let studs like Colborne and St. Pierre get away?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    Bourque has never lasted a full year in the NHL and has bounced around.  He's just not that good to talk about.  His role with the bruins will be limited.   I would rather pay him league minimum over paying and more important playing ST. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    I like Chris Bourque, cause I like Ray Bourque.  Zach Hamill is like Jordan Caron, Joe Colbourne.  If the Bs don't steal picks from Toronto, the Bs su@k at drafting.  Chris Bourque then is a good trade pick up.  Where in the world is Jared Knight, Maxime Sauve, and Ryan Spooner.  Koko or Camara are the new hopes for us dopes! PC make another trade cause the draft choices you make are daft choices up to this point.  Thanks NAS for the clarity.... and in fewer sentences I might add.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]

    Perfectly worded using excellent examples. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]


    so can this arguement be made for Caron ?

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to BsLegion's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]


    so can this arguement be made for Caron ?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    No, he hasnt done anything of note at the AHL level yet.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    No, he hasnt done anything of note at the AHL level yet.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think Legion, ever the optimist, was looking at the Paille comparison.  Is it possible that Caron is, like Paille, an NHL guy who is less suited to playing a point-getter role in the AHL?

    There is some reason to think this can happen with certain kinds of player. Usually, they talk about it with D - some D are really good in a structured system, really smart on the breakout when the guys around them are doing what they're supposed to do etc.  In the AHL, where the game is a little looser and the players aren't quite as good, those D sometimes get exposed because they start chasing around to cover for other guys, or they don't but they look bad for it.  There's also a thin stratum of players who seem to have the skill level and hockey sense to play with top players even though they aren't top players themselves.  They can't be the top player, and they sort of reflect the talent around them no matter what level that talent is at.  Caron could be that kind of guy; let's hope so, because that sounds better than what I'm thinking he is right now.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to BsLegion's comment:[QUOTE] In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...[/QUOTE]


    so can this arguement be made for Caron ?  [/QUOTE]

    From what I've seen Caron could not do what Paille does for the Bruins PK. The Sabres couldn't see this, Jim Benning could and told Chiarelli to pick Daniel up. The Sabres kept putting Paille on the 2nd n 3rd lines with total failure.

    Caron was drafted to break in as a 2nd or 3rd line player not a specialty PK player. Bourque has unmistakenly great hands but this isn't going to help the 3rd line. The Bruins need someone on the 3rd line that can take Kelly and Peverlys passes n put them in the back of the net not another passer which is what Bourque is "a passer".

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BsLegion's comment:[QUOTE] In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...[/QUOTE]


    so can this arguement be made for Caron ?  [/QUOTE]

    From what I've seen Caron could not do what Paille does for the Bruins PK. The Sabres couldn't see this, Jim Benning could and told Chiarelli to pick Daniel up. The Sabres kept putting Paille on the 2nd n 3rd lines with total failure.

    Caron was drafted to break in as a 2nd or 3rd line player not a specialty PK player. Bourque has unmistakenly great hands but this isn't going to help the 3rd line. The Bruins need someone on the 3rd line that can take Kelly and Peverlys passes n put them in the back of the net not another passer which is what Bourque is "a passer".

    [/QUOTE]

    And to add to this Paille is no different of a player now then he was when the Sabres drafted him out of junior. Speed with many scoring chances and below average finishing capabilities.

    He is suited for the role the Bruins now have him playing. Energy, speed, PKing with the odd short filled promotion due to injuries.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    I think i finally like Book's comments. I've ben a strong supporter for Caron as he continually improved last year. Don't understand his performance this year as reported. Could be he "thinks" he should be in the NHL and doesn't have to work hard. As demonstrated last year, when he was praised by his coach, he is big, strong and should be doing more then he has shown year to date. Do not think the younger Bourque has the size or speed for the NHL, but if he wants it bad enough, he might just fool us.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    No, he hasnt done anything of note at the AHL level yet.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think Legion, ever the optimist, was looking at the Paille comparison.  Is it possible that Caron is, like Paille, an NHL guy who is less suited to playing a point-getter role in the AHL?

    There is some reason to think this can happen with certain kinds of player. Usually, they talk about it with D - some D are really good in a structured system, really smart on the breakout when the guys around them are doing what they're supposed to do etc.  In the AHL, where the game is a little looser and the players aren't quite as good, those D sometimes get exposed because they start chasing around to cover for other guys, or they don't but they look bad for it.  There's also a thin stratum of players who seem to have the skill level and hockey sense to play with top players even though they aren't top players themselves.  They can't be the top player, and they sort of reflect the talent around them no matter what level that talent is at.  Caron could be that kind of guy; let's hope so, because that sounds better than what I'm thinking he is right now.

    [/QUOTE]


    Book, my scout pal has also been disappointed with Caron's play so far this year but did say he feels Caron is one of those players that might be better in the NHL than in the AHL. He went on to explain that that for many players, it's easier to play in the NHL because everyone else is doing what they're supposed to do and they're where they're supposed to be on the ice. Much of Caron's game is about positioning and getting to the dirty areas. That said, he still feels like Caron was just going through the motions this year and, like all of us, feels he should've put up much better numbers than he did. I'm still holding out hope that Caron will do just fine especially after seeing how well he played some nights last year.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from saultont. Show saultont's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to bogie6's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I think i finally like Book's comments. I've ben a strong supporter for Caron as he continually improved last year. Don't understand his performance this year as reported. Could be he "thinks" he should be in the NHL and doesn't have to work hard. As demonstrated last year, when he was praised by his coach, he is big, strong and should be doing more then he has shown year to date. Do not think the younger Bourque has the size or speed for the NHL, but if he wants it bad enough, he might just fool us.

    [/QUOTE] I suspect because of what Raymond gave the Bruins in his great career that Chris will at the very least get to show his stuff with the big club.....if he gets his chance no matter what the outcome all involved will have no complaint and maybe theres none anyway....Hamill certainly got his moments.


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    After years of hating my comments?

    Bourque's about three years older than Caron, but otherwise, yeah, Chris Bourque might not have the physical tools to play the same game he plays in the A at the next level.  His last two full years in the A were pretty impressive, though - 1.4+ points per game in 09-10, then a year in Europe (mostly Lugano where he was close to a point/game), and then led the A in scoring.

    Maybe that's the way to assess Bourque's real potential if he's given a shot at something other than short minutes (his best years in Washington and Pittsburgh, he averaged about 9:30/game).  Bergeron and Seguin put up about 1.4 point/game in a Swiss A bolstered by numerous NHL players.  Bourque put up 0.85 points/game playing in a regular Swiss A year.  Just guessing how that might translate to Bourque in the NHL, I'm guessing it means he might put up about 50% of PB or TS numbers if given the same offensive minutes and linemates.  And no one wants a 35 point first liner, so start adjusting down for minutes and role, and pretty soon you're looking at maybe a guy with 15-20 point potential on the third line, or scrub numbers on the fourth.

    Not exactly highway robbery.  Incidentally, head to head in the AHL this year, Bourque is 8-20-28 and Hamill 10-10-20 after 32 games.  Neither will win the scoring title barring a crazy run.  But it's interesting that Hamill continues his push to score more goals.  His first two years in Providence, he scored into the teens in goals, but he hadn't cracked double digits the last two years despite a hot start last year.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    What I take from that, dez, is that I'm pretty much just as good as an NHL scout.  Now I know what I can do when I retire!

    The only thing I'll say other than I hope we're right and Caron builds on the best we saw of him last year is that I really don't like guys whose motor is dependent on whether they're having a disappointing day or not.  If Caron has been phoning it in because he thinks he's an NHLer, I hope he doesn't stick out of camp - I hope Spooner or Bourque do instead - and then they give him the first call-up.  Smack, kid, wake the F up.

    Funny how Eberle took the time to dominate the AHL.... [not to imply a quality comparison between Caron and Eberle].

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    After years of hating my comments?

    Bourque's about three years older than Caron, but otherwise, yeah, Chris Bourque might not have the physical tools to play the same game he plays in the A at the next level.  His last two full years in the A were pretty impressive, though - 1.4+ points per game in 09-10, then a year in Europe (mostly Lugano where he was close to a point/game), and then led the A in scoring.

    Maybe that's the way to assess Bourque's real potential if he's given a shot at something other than short minutes (his best years in Washington and Pittsburgh, he averaged about 9:30/game).  Bergeron and Seguin put up about 1.4 point/game in a Swiss A bolstered by numerous NHL players.  Bourque put up 0.85 points/game playing in a regular Swiss A year.  Just guessing how that might translate to Bourque in the NHL, I'm guessing it means he might put up about 50% of PB or TS numbers if given the same offensive minutes and linemates.  And no one wants a 35 point first liner, so start adjusting down for minutes and role, and pretty soon you're looking at maybe a guy with 15-20 point potential on the third line, or scrub numbers on the fourth.

    Not exactly highway robbery.  Incidentally, head to head in the AHL this year, Bourque is 8-20-28 and Hamill 10-10-20 after 32 games.  Neither will win the scoring title barring a crazy run.  But it's interesting that Hamill continues his push to score more goals.  His first two years in Providence, he scored into the teens in goals, but he hadn't cracked double digits the last two years despite a hot start last year.

    [/QUOTE]

    LOL

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    What I take from that, dez, is that I'm pretty much just as good as an NHL scout.  Now I know what I can do when I retire!

    The only thing I'll say other than I hope we're right and Caron builds on the best we saw of him last year is that I really don't like guys whose motor is dependent on whether they're having a disappointing day or not.  If Caron has been phoning it in because he thinks he's an NHLer, I hope he doesn't stick out of camp - I hope Spooner or Bourque do instead - and then they give him the first call-up.  Smack, kid, wake the F up.

    Funny how Eberle took the time to dominate the AHL.... [not to imply a quality comparison between Caron and Eberle].

    [/QUOTE]

    Book, I sincerely believe your statement to be true and my buddy wouldn't dispute the concept either. He knows how lucky he is to have the job he does because his life has changed very little. He still just watches hockey games nightly. The only difference for him is the Stars now pay for his NHL package and cell phone bills and he drives to see at least 3 live AHL games per week (the one positive of the lockout was the increased skill level for AHL. At least fans in those towns saw a benefit). I should add that he has to fill out a year end scouting report on every player in the Eastern conference(minors included).

    Regarding Caron, my buddy speculated that he may have been less than 100% all year because little else could explain such a significant drop in both effort and results from one year to the next. He really liked the Caron he watched in Prov last year and had trouble believing it was the same player from game to game this year. Cheers! Go Bruins!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]

    People said the same things about both Martin St. Louis & P.A. Parenteau.  Someone decided to give these guys a chance and it worked out pretty well. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]

    People said the same things about both Martin St. Louis & P.A. Parenteau.  Someone decided to give these guys a chance and it worked out pretty well. 

    [/QUOTE]

    For every one of those success stories there are hundreds of big time AHLers that never pan out when given the opportunity. I'm not saying Bourque has no shot at doing it. In fact, I hope he does excel. I'm just saying it wasn't the lopsided deal that Drewski feels it was. Cheers.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For some reason i just see Bourque as a guy who has terrific AHL numbers but will never translate into NHL success..Could be one of those players who can thrive on the 1st line in the AHL but cant cut it on the fourth line of an NHL team..A guy like Paille could play on the first line in Providence and not put up half the points Bourque does, but is a better NHL player...

    [/QUOTE]

    People said the same things about both Martin St. Louis & P.A. Parenteau.  Someone decided to give these guys a chance and it worked out pretty well. 

    [/QUOTE]

    For every one of those success stories there are hundreds of big time AHLers that never pan out when given the opportunity. I'm not saying Bourque has no shot at doing. In fact, I hope he does excel. I'm just saying it wasn't the lopsided deal that Drewski feels it was. Cheers.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thought i would ask you this question dez, as you seem to be a fan, how many years is a player left on a HOF ballot before their elegibility expires? I see Jack Morris has 1 year left . I have checked a few sites but can't seem to find an answer.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question


    Thought i would ask you this question dez, as you seem to be a fan, how many years is a player left on a HOF ballot before their elegibility expires? I see Jack Morris has 1 year left . I have checked a few sites but can't seem to find an answer.

    [/QUOTE]

    The answer is 20 years from his retirement sir. Cheers!

    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/rules-election/rules-history

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Thought i would ask you this question dez, as you seem to be a fan, how many years is a player left on a HOF ballot before their elegibility expires? I see Jack Morris has 1 year left . I have checked a few sites but can't seem to find an answer.

    [/QUOTE]

    The answer is 20 years from his retirement sir. Cheers!

    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/rules-election/rules-history

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanx Dez, knew you'd have it.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Serious Question

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Thought i would ask you this question dez, as you seem to be a fan, how many years is a player left on a HOF ballot before their elegibility expires? I see Jack Morris has 1 year left . I have checked a few sites but can't seem to find an answer.

    [/QUOTE]

    The answer is 20 years from his retirement sir. Cheers!

    http://baseballhall.org/hall-famers/rules-election/rules-history

    [/QUOTE]

    Thanx Dez, knew you'd have it.

    [/QUOTE]

    Anytime 50. Glad I could help.

     
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