Sestito Suspension?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Sestito Suspension?

    If Thornton got 15 games for continuing to punch an unwilling opponent, what does Sestito get?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/tom-sestito-picks-27-penalty-minutes-one-second-154115406--nhl.html

    Or is an injury the only thing that matters?  Seems a lot more dangerous than Thornton's gloves-on punches...

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Thornton got 15 games for continuing to punch an unwilling opponent, what does Sestito get?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/tom-sestito-picks-27-penalty-minutes-one-second-154115406--nhl.html

    Or is an injury the only thing that matters?  Seems a lot more dangerous than Thornton's gloves-on punches...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This seems to be Sherriff Shanny's modus operandi, if Nolan passed out, Sestito would get 15 games by definition and precedence. Sestito's sole intent was to throttle Nolan for his hit on Thelma, which is what Thornton was trying to do to an unwilling Orprick.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If Thornton got 15 games for continuing to punch an unwilling opponent, what does Sestito get?

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/tom-sestito-picks-27-penalty-minutes-one-second-154115406--nhl.html

    Or is an injury the only thing that matters?  Seems a lot more dangerous than Thornton's gloves-on punches...

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This seems to be Sherriff Shanny's modus operandi, if Nolan passed out, Sestito would get 15 games by definition and precedence. Sestito's sole intent was to throttle Nolan for his hit on Thelma, which is what Thornton was trying to do to an unwilling Orprick.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, the events leading up to it were almost identical, except the hit on Sedin seemed even more benign than Orpik's and didn't cause any injury.  Thornton knocked Orpik down but punched him with a glove on after he wasn't fighting back.  Sestito dropped the gloves and continued to throw bare-knuckled haymakers at Nolan, long after it was obvious he wasn't fighting back.

    You're right, if Nolan lays down and closes his eyes, it's 15 games.  I guess Shanny needs to decide if he's punishing based on the action or the injury.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kitchener. Show kitchener's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    Come on now no comparison  Orpick was lying defenceless on the ice and Thornton brutally attacked him with viscious brutal pulverizing punches .Than poor Orpik was taken off on a stretcher,so come on how can we compare the too.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    I think it's the injury that matters. In fact if Thornton did was Sestito did to Orpik the ifrst time he would have gotten 5 for fighting, maybe a 10 minute misconduct. He got suspended becuase Orpik was out and carried off on a stretcher.

    Thats said, if the Thotnron incident doesnt happen, Sestito doesnt get kicked out of the game and were not talking about him today.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    The exact same thing happened in an earlier game between the Flyers & Stars, Rinaldo jumped Roussel and started pummelling him,Roussel didn't fight back and was not seriously injured, he got the same punishment, 2mins 5 mins 10mins game misconduct. I don't believe Rinaldo got a suspension. Getting knocked out seems to be the key to 15 games, it had to look like shanny is getting serious in the publics eye, but if you pummell a guy and he doesn't pass out...no problem.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?


    Not the same.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Not the same.

    [/QUOTE]

    Explain.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Not the same.

    [/QUOTE]

    Why,because Rinaldo didn't throw a check at one of the Stars top players?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to stan17's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Not the same.



    Explain.

    [/QUOTE]

    Nolan was standing in front of him, wasnt slew footed off his feet into a "vulnerable defenseless position"(love the term vulnerable position), he knew it was coming, he protected himself.  I think this is what ST should have done with Orpik.  

    Not sure a suspension is warranted, getting the clown outta the game would be good for all

    ever get hit with a glove on?  Not fun.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    PS, ST had his chance to do this in the first instance.   He then went back in and grabbed onto orpik in a scrum.  I dont think they are the same at all.  

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    PS, ST had his chance to do this in the first instance.   He then went back in and grabbed onto orpik in a scrum.  I dont think they are the same at all.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Hypothetically Shupe, what if Nolan was knocked out?Its not Thorntons problem that Orprick didn't want to defend himself.I guess in the end it was ST's problem.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    PS, ST had his chance to do this in the first instance.   He then went back in and grabbed onto orpik in a scrum.  I dont think they are the same at all.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Hypothetically Shupe, what if Nolan was knocked out?Its not Thorntons problem that Orprick didn't want to defend himself.I guess in the end it was ST's problem.

    [/QUOTE]

    We can play what ifs for everything.  The two plays are very different.  I saw andrew ference a couple times this year force a guy into fighting by dropping the mitts and giving the guy no option.  

    Had ST done what this clown did orpik likely turtles or covers up and isnt knocked out.  ST made it 2 seperate events.  He didnt get him the first time, likely felt he didnt do his job(as per norm bc of "the code"), so he goes after him again, snaps, slew foots buddy to the ice and knocks him out.  I'm not sure how these are similar at all.  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hypothetically Shupe, what if Nolan was knocked out?Its not Thorntons problem that Orprick didn't want to defend himself.I guess in the end it was ST's problem.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's the key point.  I agree there is a difference but the difference is the injury.  Both guys are persuing someone for the exact same reason.  Both Nolan and Orpik chose not to engage or fight back.  Both agressors carry on anyhow, throwing punches at a player not defending himself.  If Sestito lands one of those bare knuckled haymakers, it is likely to do more damage than Thronton's short gloved punch.

    I'm not defending Thornton.  You should never punch someone who's down and not definding themselves.  

    And maybe you think that suspensions based on the injury, not the action, makes sense.  That's fine.  But it's not what Shanahan has stated.

    Watch the Thornton suspension tape.  Shanahan notes Orpik's injury as a side note.  His description for why Thornton gets the 15 games consists primarily of this:

    "Not a hockey play"

    "Not spontaneus"

    "An act of retibution"

    Tell me how that logic doesn't apply to Sestito?

    The primary difference is the injury.  If injury is the main criteria for suspension, Shanahan should say so. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hypothetically Shupe, what if Nolan was knocked out?Its not Thorntons problem that Orprick didn't want to defend himself.I guess in the end it was ST's problem.

    [/QUOTE]


    That's the key point.  I agree there is a difference but the difference is the injury.  Both guys are persuing someone for the exact same reason.  Both Nolan and Orpik chose not to engage or fight back.  Both agressors carry on anyhow, throwing punches at a player not defending himself.  If Sestito lands one of those bare knuckled haymakers, it is likely to do more damage than Thronton's short gloved punch.

    I'm not defending Thornton.  You should never punch someone who's down and not definding themselves.  

    And maybe you think that suspensions based on the injury, not the action, makes sense.  That's fine.  But it's not what Shanahan has stated.

    Watch the Thornton suspension tape.  Shanahan notes Orpik's injury as a side note.  His description for why Thornton gets the 15 games consists primarily of this:

    "Not a hockey play"

    "Not spontaneus"

    "An act of retibution"

    Tell me how that logic doesn't apply to Sestito?

    The primary difference is the injury.  If injury is the main criteria for suspension, Shanahan should say so. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Fletch, im not sure how you can see it anywhere close to the same.  Tootoos turn around haymaker much more dangerous.   I think the primary difference is ST made it into two seperate incidents.  Nolan had to know what was possibly coming his way.  Orpik cant really control getting slew foot take down.  Had ST dropped the gloves and chucked orpik would have been more ready and in better position to defend.  ive seen what sestito did a bunch of times in my life.  Havent seen what ST did at all.  Nolan and Sestito were lined up for a faceoff.  since we are playing what if.  What if lucic knocks out hedman?   What if Orr knocks out kaleta.  Does cam neeley deserve to be suspended for his attack on ulf?   Does mccarty deserve to be suspended for pulling claude around the rink.  

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    Oh boy.

    Sestito is a cement head with no business in the league.

    In this play, he was upset with the player for throwing what he thought was a questionable check on a star.  He grabbed the player after the puck was dropped and slugged him a few times, paused to wait for a reaction, got none, and threw a couple more.

    I've been praying for a reaction like that from Thornton.  That's true enforcing.  No do-se-do, no hihowareya.  I'm mad.  You earned this.  Here it comes.

    He deserved to get kicked out of the game.

    And, of course, a 30 game suspension.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh boy.

    Sestito is a cement head with no business in the league.

    In this play, he was upset with the player for throwing what he thought was a questionable check on a star.  He grabbed the player after the puck was dropped and slugged him a few times, paused to wait for a reaction, got none, and threw a couple more.

    I've been praying for a reaction like that from Thornton.  That's true enforcing.  No do-se-do, no hihowareya.  I'm mad.  You earned this.  Here it comes.

    He deserved to get kicked out of the game.

    And, of course, a 30 game suspension.

    [/QUOTE]

    No $100,000 fine?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Fletch, im not sure how you can see it anywhere close to the same.  Tootoos turn around haymaker much more dangerous.   I think the primary difference is ST made it into two seperate incidents.  Nolan had to know what was possibly coming his way.  Orpik cant really control getting slew foot take down.  Had ST dropped the gloves and chucked orpik would have been more ready and in better position to defend.  ive seen what sestito did a bunch of times in my life.  Havent seen what ST did at all.  Nolan and Sestito were lined up for a faceoff.  since we are playing what if.  What if lucic knocks out hedman?   What if Orr knocks out kaleta.  Does cam neeley deserve to be suspended for his attack on ulf?   Does mccarty deserve to be suspended for pulling claude around the rink.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Since we are bringing up past incidents:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcnbaqWqqI

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to MeanE's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Fletch, im not sure how you can see it anywhere close to the same.  Tootoos turn around haymaker much more dangerous.   I think the primary difference is ST made it into two seperate incidents.  Nolan had to know what was possibly coming his way.  Orpik cant really control getting slew foot take down.  Had ST dropped the gloves and chucked orpik would have been more ready and in better position to defend.  ive seen what sestito did a bunch of times in my life.  Havent seen what ST did at all.  Nolan and Sestito were lined up for a faceoff.  since we are playing what if.  What if lucic knocks out hedman?   What if Orr knocks out kaleta.  Does cam neeley deserve to be suspended for his attack on ulf?   Does mccarty deserve to be suspended for pulling claude around the rink.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Since we are bringing up past incidents:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckcnbaqWqqI

    [/QUOTE]

    I hate ulf.  It was well worth the 8 games.  

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh boy.

    Sestito is a cement head with no business in the league.

    In this play, he was upset with the player for throwing what he thought was a questionable check on a star.  He grabbed the player after the puck was dropped and slugged him a few times, paused to wait for a reaction, got none, and threw a couple more.

    I've been praying for a reaction like that from Thornton.  That's true enforcing.  No do-se-do, no hihowareya.  I'm mad.  You earned this.  Here it comes.

    He deserved to get kicked out of the game.

    And, of course, a 30 game suspension.

    [/QUOTE]



    You state Sestito is a cement head with no business being in the league.

    You've been praying for a reaction from Thornton to do this also. 

    Sestito coldcocks someone and it's true enforcing ? 

    Your idea of what fighters should do nowadays is of Slapshot-like proportions.

    Having that type of player in today's NHL is useless.....other then donating money due to being suspended all the time.


     






     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Oh boy.

    Sestito is a cement head with no business in the league.

    In this play, he was upset with the player for throwing what he thought was a questionable check on a star.  He grabbed the player after the puck was dropped and slugged him a few times, paused to wait for a reaction, got none, and threw a couple more.

    I've been praying for a reaction like that from Thornton.  That's true enforcing.  No do-se-do, no hihowareya.  I'm mad.  You earned this.  Here it comes.

    He deserved to get kicked out of the game.

    And, of course, a 30 game suspension.

    [/QUOTE]

    It seemed to me that Thornton's attack on Orpik was exactly "no do-se-do, no hihowareya.  I'm mad.  You earned this.  Here it comes"

     

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Fletch, im not sure how you can see it anywhere close to the same.  Tootoos turn around haymaker much more dangerous.   I think the primary difference is ST made it into two seperate incidents.  Nolan had to know what was possibly coming his way.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think I'm understanding why the bold part matters.  I mean, if Shanahan is attempting to prevent dirty plays and injuries, why on earth does he care if it happens on the first or second encounter?

    Again, going to his tape, his own words, he seems to find the following things the most objectionable:

    "Not a hockey play"

    "Not spontaneous"

    "An act of retribution"

    If this is true, Sestito's would be worse than Tootoo's and in the same area as Thornton, as Tootoo's punch was at least spontaneous.

    I think Shanahan is being disingenuous and manipulative, although I kind of understand why.

    He doesn't want to admit that it's all about the injury.  But it is.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Fletch, im not sure how you can see it anywhere close to the same.  Tootoos turn around haymaker much more dangerous.   I think the primary difference is ST made it into two seperate incidents.  Nolan had to know what was possibly coming his way.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't think I'm understanding why the bold part matters.  I mean, if Shanahan is attempting to prevent dirty plays and injuries, why on earth does he care if it happens on the first or second encounter?

    Again, going to his tape, his own words, he seems to find the following things the most objectionable:

    "Not a hockey play"

    "Not spontaneous"

    "An act of retribution"

    If this is true, Sestito's would be worse than Tootoo's and in the same area as Thornton, as Tootoo's punch was at least spontaneous.

    I think Shanahan is being disingenuous and manipulative, although I kind of understand why.

    He doesn't want to admit that it's all about the injury.  But it is.

    [/QUOTE]

    Bc orpik clearly wanted no part of this and skated away.  Had ST done what andrew ference did with upshaw by punching away regardless its over there.   So now people have seen this evidence(Yes, im thinking like a cop here).   So, orpik skates away.  So now part 2 comes in where a frustrated player is gonna take his pound of flesh at all costs.  

    so sestito drops his glove after the play was on.  Going after another guy who fights heavies in nolan...nolan doesnt drop his gloves...and covers up And no injury.  

    You feel this is the same as ST coming in after a whistle slew footing a guy into a defenseless position and knocking him out.  All after he didnt complete Part1 which everyone saw.  

    Go watch ference and upshaw.  I apologize i cant figure how to post a link off youtube.  Upshaw never dropped his gloves in this play.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to shuperman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Bc orpik clearly wanted no part of this and skated away.  Had ST done what andrew ference did with upshaw by punching away regardless its over there.   So now people have seen this evidence(Yes, im thinking like a cop here).   So, orpik skates away.  So now part 2 comes in where a frustrated player is gonna take his pound of flesh at all costs.  

    so sestito drops his glove after the play was on.  Going after another guy who fights heavies in nolan...nolan doesnt drop his gloves...and covers up And no injury.  

    You feel this is the same as ST coming in after a whistle slew footing a guy into a defenseless position and knocking him out.  All after he didnt complete Part1 which everyone saw.  

    Go watch ference and upshaw.  I apologize i cant figure how to post a link off youtube.  Upshaw never dropped his gloves in this play.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Aaaaannngh, I want to agree with you, but throwing out all of these nuances about timing and build up, I guess I am asking you to look at two things:

    1. Danger.  I think Sestito's punches are just as dangerous as Thornton's, when neither guy is doing squat to defend themselves.  Thornton didn't even take his gloves off, but he did knock him down.  From a pure danger standpoint, I'd call it a wash.

    2. Shanny's criteria (again).  This is what we're supposed to go by, not the crime scene buildup you're talking about.  Shanny's stated criteria for Thornton's punishment is what makes the incidents so similar

    "Not a hockey play"

    "Not spontaneous"

    "An act of retribution"

    I would have given Thornton 10 games.  As far as Sestito, I think you need to either give him something similar, OR just admit that injury is a very big part of this (like, most of it).

    Anything else is disingenuous.

    Orpik gets up, Thornton gets a misconduct.  Nolan leaves on a stretcher, Sestito gets a double digit suspension.

    Call it what it is.  No?

     

     

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sestito Suspension?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Orpik gets up, Thornton gets a misconduct.  Nolan leaves on a stretcher, Sestito gets a double digit suspension.

    Call it what it is.  No?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This is what i believe also if we are to believe Shanny, Orprick gets up, no suspension for ST. both incidents were attacks,imo, with one difference, one player got up.

     
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