Sharks - Thornton

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Sharks - Thornton

    Sharks should be heavily motivated tonight but have been positively mediocre lately. Amazing that this team is on the verge of missing the playoffs with the talent that they have assembled. I think that Big Joe's time in SJS may be up if they do not make the playoffs. I'm guessing the Leafs would be a prime landing spot for him. Leafs fans are enraged that there are no Ontario boys on the team, Burke is looking for a #1 center and has the available cash to make it happen. He is, in my opinion, exactly what Burke is looking for in the off season.
    Of course, this can all change if the Sharks put it together and make a deep run.
    I just can't imagine the Sharks keeping this team together if they pull a DNQ.
    Mike O'Connell used Thornton as his scapegoat when he made the trade and we all know that he could have gotten a better package for Joe, but, he at least realized that they were not going to win with Joe. I think that the Sharks may be coming to the same realization.
    To get a player of Thornton's calibre Burke would probably need to give up Kadri, Schenn and a couple of first round picks at the very least. Can you imagine the uproar in Toronto if he were to give up his first rounders again a la the Kessel trade. There would be riots in the streets.
    Burke is on the hot seat and needs to do something REALLY big this summer. this fits nicely.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Kadri is developing a reputation as someone Toronto overhyped. Schennisnt developing nearly into the caliber of defenseman than people initially believed. They won't land Thornton, although if you toss in two firsts, it might get done. Adding Thornton won't help Toronto's horrid defense, so those picks will be good indeed.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Sharks - Thornton:
    Sharks should be heavily motivated tonight but have been positively mediocre lately. Amazing that this team is on the verge of missing the playoffs with the talent that they have assembled. I think that Big Joe's time in SJS may be up if they do not make the playoffs. I'm guessing the Leafs would be a prime landing spot for him. Leafs fans are enraged that there are no Ontario boys on the team, Burke is looking for a #1 center and has the available cash to make it happen. He is, in my opinion, exactly what Burke is looking for in the off season. Of course, this can all change if the Sharks put it together and make a deep run. I just can't imagine the Sharks keeping this team together if they pull a DNQ. Mike O'Connell used Thornton as his scapegoat when he made the trade and we all know that he could have gotten a better package for Joe, but, he at least realized that they were not going to win with Joe. I think that the Sharks may be coming to the same realization. To get a player of Thornton's calibre Burke would probably need to give up Kadri, Schenn and a couple of first round picks at the very least. Can you imagine the uproar in Toronto if he were to give up his first rounders again a la the Kessel trade. There would be riots in the streets. Burke is on the hot seat and needs to do something REALLY big this summer. this fits nicely.
    Posted by ed121501

    I could see Marleau going to T.O, perfect fit. SJS likely won't trade Joe as they'll probably retire his jersey.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    In Response to Sharks - Thornton : I could see Marleau going to T.O, perfect fit. SJS likely won't trade Joe as they'll probably retire his jersey.
    Posted by 50belowzero


    It would be intresting to see what TO would have to give up. I am not convinced they are willing to part with their picks this time around. Problem is they really do not have any prime assets. I am sure TO would love to get rid of the likes of Armstrong, MacArthur, Komisarek, and even Schenn but it is hard to imagine SJ wanting any of these duds. Don't think Kadri or Colborne will quite do it either. They are in quite a bind!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    In Response to Sharks - Thornton : I could see Marleau going to T.O, perfect fit. SJS likely won't trade Joe as they'll probably retire his jersey.
    Posted by 50belowzero


    I'm not so convinced the Sharks think so much of Joe that they would'nt trade him. I think he may be wearing out his welcome there and he is a big time asset that could fetch alot in return. Remember that Doug Wilson may also be on the hot seat as his teams have consistently underperformed. How long will ownership accept losing ? Get 2 desperate GM's together and lots of strange things can happen. The way I see it: Burke is desperate for a big center who can set up Kessel and Wilson wants to keep his job and Joe could, once again, be the scapegoat (sound familiar ?).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Playoff type game tonight.The Sharks are desperate for points so it's a good test for the Bruins.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Sharks are fragile right now. Score early, or pull a 2 goal lead, they will fold.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton : I'm not so convinced the Sharks think so much of Joe that they would'nt trade him. I think he may be wearing out his welcome there and he is a big time asset that could fetch alot in return. Remember that Doug Wilson may also be on the hot seat as his teams have consistently underperformed. How long will ownership accept losing ? Get 2 desperate GM's together and lots of strange things can happen. The way I see it: Burke is desperate for a big center who can set up Kessel and Wilson wants to keep his job and Joe could, once again, be the scapegoat (sound familiar ?).
    Posted by ed121501

    Yeah thats why i don't think the Sharks will trade him, it would be like admitting the b's were right all along.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    The Sharks have made a lot of bad moves that are reminiscent of some of the late Sinden/O'Connell era moves.  They moved Michalek, Cheechoo (no loss there) and a 2nd to get Heatley, then moved Heatley for the always injured Havlat, who is basically Michalek, so they burned a 2 for no reason.  They dealt Setoguchi, McGinn, Staubitz, and with Clowe and Marleau having a down year and Pavelski and Couture on a plateau, plus JT Scapegoat settling into his sunset years as a top scorer, they're not getting either the bang for big bucks out of their "superstars" (including Boyle and Burns) or the depth scoring from their bottom 7 or 8 forwards.  And they subscribed to the cheap goaltending trend by sticking with Niemi at a mid-level price so they could pay all those veteran star salaries.  Next year, they've committed $39M to their top 5 forwards and 2 D.  That leaves what, $26M for the rest of the roster, including goalies?  An average of what, $2M/player?  If your fourth line averages $1M, and your bottom pairing averages $1M, and you pay your backup goalie $1M, then you have $20M for a defense pairing, four forwards, and a starting goalie.  If you want a good goalie, you're looking at, say, $5M unless you have one you've developed or can get a young one in a deal.  And even then.  So $15M for six skaters, which is $2.75M.  Not bad, except that Clowe is a third liner, so you're looking for two third liners, a second liner, and a guy who can play on the top line with Thornton and Marleau if you want to be competitive.  Oh, and they're committed to a second pairing of Murray and Vlasic for $6M (or so) so you now have $9M for those four fowards.  If $4M goes to the guy on the top line (say they get lucky) the other three are splitting $5M.

    My point being, you can make it work, but you're making decisions about a lot of those positions based almost exclusively on the best budget player available - with almost no flexibility.

    So yeah, I could see the Sharks moving Thornton.  They'd move him before Marleau who has been a career Shark and basically as good as Thornton minus two high water years out of Joe.  They'd retire his number before Joe's.  But what does Toronto offer?  Do they have two high-quality second liners to play with Pavelski if the Sharks move Couture to first line C?  High end prospects?  I doubt the Sharks go full rebuild and deal Thornton and Boyle, but hey, if Wilson goes, they might.  I just don't see Toronto being at the top of the bidding.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nrguy. Show nrguy's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Thornton for Kessel, Colbourne & a pick or prospect?
     
    It's hard to value a guy I never see (Thornton) and a guy I don't like (Kessel) so I could be way off on valuation but why not trade Kessel if you don't think he'll resign.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Joe has 2 more years after this season and a  $7m/year cap hit. Not easy to move that kind of salary for a player who is 33 and gainig a rep as a non-winnner. Maybe TO would bite on that but they would have to shed some player/salaries to make it work. They have very little coming off the books after this season in the way of UFAs. After next season they have a TON of UFAs including Lupul, Connolly, Armstrong and MacArthur.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    Joe has 2 more years after this season and a  $7m/year cap hit. Not easy to move that kind of salary for a player who is 33 and gainig a rep as a non-winnner. Maybe TO would bite on that but they would have to shed some player/salaries to make it work. They have very little coming off the books after this season in the way of UFAs. After next season they have a TON of UFAs including Lupul, Connolly, Armstrong and MacArthur.
    Posted by WalkTheLine

    Kessel would be the starting point in any deal for Thornton I would think. His days in Leaf-land are likely numbered anyway.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Full NMC for both Thornton and Marleau. So lets see Doug Wilson calls either player and says "The new GM of the Laffs wants you and the offer will really, really help the Sharks for the future tons of draft picks (they like to give those away), so I was thinking....Hello ?...Hello ?..."

    Doug Wilson might even be the GM in Toronto asking for one of the two players.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    Hard to Imagine either Thornton or Marleau waiving the NMC to go to Toronto and the miserable shape that franchise is in.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    Hard to Imagine either Thornton or Marleau waiving the NMC to go to Toronto and the miserable shape that franchise is in.Posted by WalkTheLine


    I'm sure they would waive it but not for that mess.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    What would be the point of trading for a big, pass-first center if you trade away the sniping winger he was brought in to set up?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    What would be the point of trading for a big, pass-first center if you trade away the sniper he was brought in to set up?
    Posted by davecarr

    Exactly, but Joe T. is someone the Leafs could attempt to build around. Kessel has shown that he isn't.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    Thornton for Kessel, Colbourne & a pick or prospect?   It's hard to value a guy I never see (Thornton) and a guy I don't like (Kessel) so I could be way off on valuation but why not trade Kessel if you don't think he'll resign.
    Posted by nrguy


    Hmmm? Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think Kessel is signed for another couple of years so that's not really an issue.
    I think that Burke is more interested in keeping Kessel and getting him a center who can set him up. Thornton to the Leafs does not make sense unless Kessel is there. Who is Joe passing to if Kessel is not there ?. Joe wants to pass and Phil wants to shoot. They were made for each other. I'm also inclined to believe he would be willing to trade first rounders because I'm not sure that Burke has the job security to be able to wait for young picks to develop. Burke may need to go the veteran rebuild route (like Florida) just to be able to field a competitive team and keep his job. Lets remember that goaltending is also a major issue in Leaf land and that also needs to be addressed in the off season. Food for thought here but I would'nt also be surprised if our own Tim Thomas comes up in trade discussions at seasons end. If I'm the Bruins I'm not to happy about the whole White House fiasco and I definitely dont want Tuukaa to sit through another season of being a backup. Timmy's value might be at its highest at seasons end and, once again, I could see Burke taking a run at Tim to fill the gaping need at goal that he has. Timmy could end up anywhere but, I really think that the Timmy /Tuukaa transition needs to happen at seasons end for the good of the teams future
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    The Sharks have made a lot of bad moves that are reminiscent of some of the late Sinden/O'Connell era moves.  They moved Michalek, Cheechoo (no loss there) and a 2nd to get Heatley, then moved Heatley for the always injured Havlat, who is basically Michalek, so they burned a 2 for no reason.  They dealt Setoguchi, McGinn, Staubitz, and with Clowe and Marleau having a down year and Pavelski and Couture on a plateau, plus JT Scapegoat settling into his sunset years as a top scorer, they're not getting either the bang for big bucks out of their "superstars" (including Boyle and Burns) or the depth scoring from their bottom 7 or 8 forwards.  And they subscribed to the cheap goaltending trend by sticking with Niemi at a mid-level price so they could pay all those veteran star salaries.  Next year, they've committed $39M to their top 5 forwards and 2 D.  That leaves what, $26M for the rest of the roster, including goalies?  An average of what, $2M/player?  If your fourth line averages $1M, and your bottom pairing averages $1M, and you pay your backup goalie $1M, then you have $20M for a defense pairing, four forwards, and a starting goalie.  If you want a good goalie, you're looking at, say, $5M unless you have one you've developed or can get a young one in a deal.  And even then.  So $15M for six skaters, which is $2.75M.  Not bad, except that Clowe is a third liner, so you're looking for two third liners, a second liner, and a guy who can play on the top line with Thornton and Marleau if you want to be competitive.  Oh, and they're committed to a second pairing of Murray and Vlasic for $6M (or so) so you now have $9M for those four fowards.  If $4M goes to the guy on the top line (say they get lucky) the other three are splitting $5M. My point being, you can make it work, but you're making decisions about a lot of those positions based almost exclusively on the best budget player available - with almost no flexibility. So yeah, I could see the Sharks moving Thornton.  They'd move him before Marleau who has been a career Shark and basically as good as Thornton minus two high water years out of Joe.  They'd retire his number before Joe's.  But what does Toronto offer?  Do they have two high-quality second liners to play with Pavelski if the Sharks move Couture to first line C?  High end prospects?  I doubt the Sharks go full rebuild and deal Thornton and Boyle, but hey, if Wilson goes, they might.  I just don't see Toronto being at the top of the bidding.
    Posted by Bookboy007

    When i say they'd retire Joe's #, i don't think their standards are too high, much like the Canucks.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton : Hmmm? Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think Kessel is signed for another couple of years so that's not really an issue. I think that Burke is more interested in keeping Kessel and getting him a center who can set him up. Thornton to the Leafs does not make sense unless Kessel is there. Who is Joe passing to if Kessel is not there ?. Joe wants to pass and Phil wants to shoot. They were made for each other. I'm also inclined to believe he would be willing to trade first rounders because I'm not sure that Burke has the job security to be able to wait for young picks to develop. Burke may need to go the veteran rebuild route (like Florida) just to be able to field a competitive team and keep his job. Lets remember that goaltending is also a major issue in Leaf land and that also needs to be addressed in the off season. Food for thought here but I would'nt also be surprised if our own Tim Thomas comes up in trade discussions at seasons end. If I'm the Bruins I'm not to happy about the whole White House fiasco and I definitely dont want Tuukaa to sit through another season of being a backup. Timmy's value might be at its highest at seasons end and, once again, I could see Burke taking a run at Tim to fill the gaping need at goal that he has. Timmy could end up anywhere but, I really think that the Timmy /Tuukaa transition needs to happen at seasons end for the good of the teams future
    Posted by ed121501

    Kessel has 2 years left on his deal but his limited NMC goes into effect after net season. Do the Leafs take the chance to Kessel dictate what happens?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    I'm not sure Kessel and Thornton are a match made in heaven.  Joe's had his greatest success with guys who weren't known for their blazing wheels - Guerin excepted to some degree.  His game, especially his passing game, has a lot to do with the cycle - win possession in the zone, set up in one of three places where he really likes the angles and lanes, and look for guys who are sort of stationary and working for position - very much like a point guard in a half-court offense.  Kessel can do that, but his game is much more dynamic - he like to have the puck not to just get it and shoot it.  Honestly, I could see that being a recipe for disaster.

    I think it's 50/50 that JT would go for it.  On the one hand, he's close to home in St. Thomas - "good Ontario boy!" - but he's such a perfect fit for surfer world, he may not want to go to the scrutiny, stress and smog of Toronto.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    I'm not sure Kessel and Thornton are a match made in heaven.  Joe's had his greatest success with guys who weren't known for their blazing wheels - Guerin excepted to some degree.  His game, especially his passing game, has a lot to do with the cycle - win possession in the zone, set up in one of three places where he really likes the angles and lanes, and look for guys who are sort of stationary and working for position - very much like a point guard in a half-court offense.  Kessel can do that, but his game is much more dynamic - he like to have the puck not to just get it and shoot it.  Honestly, I could see that being a recipe for disaster. I think it's 50/50 that JT would go for it.  On the one hand, he's close to home in St. Thomas - "good Ontario boy!" - but he's such a perfect fit for surfer world, he may not want to go to the scrutiny, stress and smog of Toronto.
    Posted by Bookboy007

    No kidding. Practice is over,surfs up!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    The Leafs without Thornton are down the drain.

    With Thornton they will make it all the way down to the sewer.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ed121501. Show ed121501's posts

    Re: Sharks - Thornton

    In Response to Re: Sharks - Thornton:
    I'm not sure Kessel and Thornton are a match made in heaven.   Posted by Bookboy007


    I agree with you 100% here. When I said they were made for each other I was just saying that one is a passer and one is a shooter. I think they could work together but never to the extent of say Hull/Oates, Neely/Janney.
    In Brian Burkes mind lies his ego and the knowledge that he is in a public relations nightmare with a team and psycho fan base that is going through one of its worst stretches in franchise history. He has no time to build through the draft and he needs to make a big splash now. What better to appease this fanbase than bring in the former Hart trophy, local boy center. Burke has already canned the coach so that card has already been played. HE is next to go on the list. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Peter Chiarelli should be talking with Burke on a daily basis. The best GM to deal with is the one who is desperate. "Hi Brian, i want to offer you the reigning Vezina winner".
    I'm not saying that he has the cap room or the assets to bring in a Thornton AND Thomas but Im pretty sure he NEEDS a goalie and he NEEDS a center. This man is ripe to be fleeced again and the B's or the Sharks have an asset that he probably covets. B's need to keep re-loading.
     
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