Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:03 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
- Posts: 6619
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In style, Subban reminds me a bit of Carey Price. Like Price, he is the top-rated Canadian goaltender of his age group. If we use Price as a recent example of goalie development, he played two more years of Junior, one year of AHL and then joined the Canadiens. 3 full years between drafting and NHL play. One major difference is birthdays, with Subban having the best possible birthday. He'll be eligible for the AHL next year. So you can take away one year of 'forced' Junior time. The rest depends on Subban and the Bruins goalie situation. Next year if the Bruins are in good shape and Subban needs work, he's in the A. If one of the duo this year struggles or is injured next year, and Subban is on fire, I don't think it's out of the question that he could see games as early as next season. I would doubt they would leave Malcolm in the minors for his full entry level contract. So I see him as min 1 year, max 3 years away from NHL games. I think the safe bet is 2 years from now he's playing, but earlier if he earns it/gets lucky with Rask blowing a knee. That's assuming he's good enough to make it.
Posted by OatesCam
Price plays for the Habs. A different management team. Maybe you should use a Bruins goalie as a recent example. As in Tuukka Rask.
Let us know how Rask developed under the same management that has Subban. That would tell us more on what their philosophy is regarding young goalies.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:10 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
- Posts: 6619
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In style, Subban reminds me a bit of Carey Price. Like Price, he is the top-rated Canadian goaltender of his age group. If we use Price as a recent example of goalie development, he played two more years of Junior, one year of AHL and then joined the Canadiens. 3 full years between drafting and NHL play. One major difference is birthdays, with Subban having the best possible birthday. He'll be eligible for the AHL next year. So you can take away one year of 'forced' Junior time. The rest depends on Subban and the Bruins goalie situation. Next year if the Bruins are in good shape and Subban needs work, he's in the A. If one of the duo this year struggles or is injured next year, and Subban is on fire, I don't think it's out of the question that he could see games as early as next season. I would doubt they would leave Malcolm in the minors for his full entry level contract. So I see him as min 1 year, max 3 years away from NHL games. I think the safe bet is 2 years from now he's playing, but earlier if he earns it/gets lucky with Rask blowing a knee. That's assuming he's good enough to make it.
Posted by OatesCam
I stand corrected on Subban's eligibility. I assumed he had 2 years left. I didn't check to see when he was born.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:15 AM EDT
- OatesCam
- Posts: 2841
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I wouldn't expect them to...
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : I can't imagine many would agree with you, if any.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:21 AM EDT
- OatesCam
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Rask, drafted in '05, made his Bruins debut in '07 due to injury, so 2 years? He went on to play 2 years in the minors to improve his game, totalling 4 years from draft to full time NHLer. You can't take one goalie's development and say they have a philosophy though. He's different player in a different situation. He wasn't drafted by the Bruins. He stayed in Europe for two years. The Bruins had Thomas. I think largely because of Subban's birthday he'll be playing at least a year sooner. The uncertainty in goal and his talent may mean he's here even sooner than that.
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : Price plays for the Habs. A different management team. Maybe you should use a Bruins goalie as a recent example. As in Tuukka Rask. Let us know how Rask developed under the same management that has Subban. That would tell us more on what their philosophy is regarding young goalies.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:21 AM EDT
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : I do. He has 2 years of eligibility left in the OHL. That's where he'll stay. Then most likely off to Providence. They didn't rush Rask and they won't rush Subban. 18 months or less is a rush job. NHL at 19-20 ? Posted by Chowdahkid-
This is the way I see it but if he kills it in providence then pushes Rask, then great bonus.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 10:23 AM EDT
- OatesCam
- Posts: 2841
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So I've decided to make the trip up to Halifax for Monday's Canada-Russia game. After seeing Subban and Hamilton in person I should be able to predict everything about their future careers and talent levels. I'll report what I see!
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 11:24 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
Rask, drafted in '05, made his Bruins debut in '07 due to injury, so 2 years? He went on to play 2 years in the minors to improve his game, totalling 4 years from draft to full time NHLer. You can't take one goalie's development and say they have a philosophy though. He's different player in a different situation. He wasn't drafted by the Bruins. He stayed in Europe for two years. The Bruins had Thomas. I think largely because of Subban's birthday he'll be playing at least a year sooner. The uncertainty in goal and his talent may mean he's here even sooner than that. In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine :
Posted by OatesCam
A year sooner then 4 years does not equal 18 months or less.
Your numbers have expanded from the start of our discussion. Go figure, you being a stats junkie.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 11:26 AM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : This is the way I see it but if he kills it in providence then pushes Rask, then great bonus.
Posted by SanDogBrewin
Ya, hoping OC is a little high with the year and a half. That would mean he's doing great.
Realistically though.....................
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 11:58 AM EDT
- OatesCam
- Posts: 2841
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I said at least a year sooner. I think he'll sign next year, play in the A and at least get some starts in the NHL. I wouldn't bet money on it, but my gut feeling is that we will see him in Boston, at least for a few games, next season. My numbers haven't expanded at all from what I said.
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : A year sooner then 4 years does not equal 18 months or less. Your numbers have expanded from the start of our discussion. Go figure, you being a stats junkie.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 12:43 PM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
I said at least a year sooner. I think he'll sign next year, play in the A and at least get some starts in the NHL. I wouldn't bet money on it, but my gut feeling is that we will see him in Boston, at least for a few games, next season. My numbers haven't expanded at all from what I said. In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine :
Posted by OatesCam
At all ? How about just a little bit. All the way up to 3 years.
So I see him as min 1 year, max 3 years away from NHL games.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 12:47 PM EDT
- OatesCam
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I'm not saying 3 years. I'm saying I think there is a very good chance he plays in less than two, just as I did earlier today. I never said max 18 months. I said I think he debuts in 18 months. I'm also saying that he plays a game in max 3 years.
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : At all ? How about just a little bit. All the way up to 3 years. So I see him as min 1 year, max 3 years away from NHL games.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
This post has been removed.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 1:13 PM EDT
- heyoo
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Not really big on subban honestly but the chances he doesnt make the nhl are slim. Give him three years or so and even if he becomes a backup he will play in the nhl. Jrs numbers for goalies are usually not a good measuring stick bcs defensive play is slim to none. So he could flop next year and still turn out to be a solid goalie. It will take years to see if he develops or not. Anyways the bruins have a group of talented young goalies, they have to hit on atleast one of them.
Hutch, subban, lars volden, adam morrison, gothberg.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 1:14 PM EDT
- heyoo
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But subban has no shot at making the nhl in the next 2 years sorry....
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 1:38 PM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
I'm not saying 3 years. I'm saying I think there is a very good chance he plays in less than two, just as I did earlier today. I never said max 18 months. I said I think he debuts in 18 months. I'm also saying that he plays a game in max 3 years. In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine :
Posted by OatesCam
I don't have a clue what you're saying now. Whatever, it's not important. I still think you're a little overhasty in expectations with Subban's arrival to the big club.
I don't think the Bruins will go the route you say they might with Subban. Unless there is a rash of injuries of course and they have no choice.
My feelings are they will go with someone else until Subban is fully developed. Not halfassed developed. At least that's what ......."my gut"......tells me.
So it's your gut vs. my gut.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 1:41 PM EDT
- Chowdahkid-
- Posts: 6619
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
Not really big on subban honestly but the chances he doesnt make the nhl are slim. Give him three years or so and even if he becomes a backup he will play in the nhl. Jrs numbers for goalies are usually not a good measuring stick bcs defensive play is slim to none. So he could flop next year and still turn out to be a solid goalie. It will take years to see if he develops or not. Anyways the bruins have a group of talented young goalies, they have to hit on atleast one of them. Hutch, subban, lars volden, adam morrison, gothberg.
Posted by heyoo
Total horse crap.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 1:56 PM EDT
- OatesCam
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Yes, it's total guts. Your gut is probably right.
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : I don't have a clue what you're saying now. Whatever, it's not important. I still think you're a little overhasty in expectations with Subban's arrival to the big club. I don't think the Bruins will go the route you say they might with Subban. Unless there is a rash of injuries of course and they have no choice. My feelings are they will go with someone else until Subban is fully developed. Not halfassed developed. At least that's what ......."my gut"......tells me. So it's your gut vs. my gut.
Posted by Chowdahkid-
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 2:10 PM EDT
- dezaruchi
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
Not really big on subban honestly but the chances he doesnt make the nhl are slim. Give him three years or so and even if he becomes a backup he will play in the nhl. Jrs numbers for goalies are usually not a good measuring stick bcs defensive play is slim to none. So he could flop next year and still turn out to be a solid goalie. It will take years to see if he develops or not. Anyways the bruins have a group of talented young goalies, they have to hit on atleast one of them. Hutch, subban, lars volden, adam morrison, gothberg.
Posted by heyoo
You have no idea what you're talking about. The CHL develops more NHL D-men than any league in the world. Was the "defensive play slim to none" when Bobby Orr played there? How about Bourque and Chara? What about Niedermayer, Doughty, Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens...........I could go on all day. Your statement is absurd. What's next, Phil Kessel is elite?
This post has been removed.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 2:33 PM EDT
In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : You have no idea what you're talking about. The CHL develops more NHL D-men than any league in the world. Was the "defensive play slim to none" when Bobby Orr played there? How about Bourque and Chara? What about Niedermayer, Doughty, Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens...........I could go on all day. Your statement is absurd. What's next, Phil Kessel is elite?
Posted by dezaruchi
Dez you do know he is a bruins season ticket holder though don't you? This makes him a hockey expert just ask him.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 3:22 PM EDT
- Bisson1
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You guy's don't just simply ignore Heyoo's posts?
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 7:46 PM EDT
- heyoo
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Most dmen coming out of the chl have to develop their defensive game before they make it to the nhl. So i dont understand how that is horse. Ive never seen a dmen come from the chl and be a force defensively, but ive seen players come from the european league and make the jump to the nhl. Just an observation you dont agree fine give me some names. Just so you know in all the chl leagues only 2 goalies had a gaa under 2 and that is 60 teams only two players with gaa under 2 deff says good d to me.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 7:51 PM EDT
- heyoo
- Posts: 508
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : You have no idea what you're talking about. The CHL develops more NHL D-men than any league in the world. Was the "defensive play slim to none" when Bobby Orr played there? How about Bourque and Chara? What about Niedermayer, Doughty, Al MacInnis, Scott Stevens...........I could go on all day. Your statement is absurd. What's next, Phil Kessel is elite?
Posted by dezaruchi
Id say kessel is elite he was in the top five in pts made the all star team but dez says hes garabage so it must be true. I wouldnt want a top 5 point guy on my team... And the ahl develops more dmen than any other league in the world want to make a bet pal???
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 8:07 PM EDT
- kelvana33
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In Response to
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine:
In Response to Re: Subban, Hamilton shine : Most drafted goalies never make it to the NHL. Of those that do, how many are in the NHL in less than four years? Very few, I'd guess. No reason to think that Subban is going to buck that trend. Two more years in juniors and at least two years in Providence is very realistic.
Posted by Not-A-Shot
The numbers support everything you say. I just think we'll see him in Boston sooner than 4 years.
Re: Subban, Hamilton shine
posted at 8/11/2012 9:00 PM EDT
- islamorada
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Tuuka was in the NHL during his third year.
