Subban to win Norris

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Subban to win Norris

    As reported by Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet. Oh well, i guess the award goes to the d-man with the most flash and offensive prowess. Letang or Subban aren't too defensively minded,imo.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from saskpatsfan. Show saskpatsfan's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    As reported by Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet. Oh well, i guess the award goes to the d-man with the most flash and offensive prowess. Letang or Subban aren't too defensively minded,imo.



    Yeah, Letang showed his lack of defensive skills yet again in these playoffs. I don't understand why they don't just create a separate award for the best offensive defenseman like the Selke trophy for forwards. Got to be able to play well in all ends of the rink to win the Norris IMO.

    It's the same problem with Jonas Brodin being snubbed for the Calder this year. The guy was solid for the Wild. No love for good defense in the NHL I guess.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49thparallel. Show 49thparallel's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    that's a joke. He missed how many games during his holdout?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to saskpatsfan's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    As reported by Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet. Oh well, i guess the award goes to the d-man with the most flash and offensive prowess. Letang or Subban aren't too defensively minded,imo.

     



    Yeah, Letang showed his lack of defensive skills yet again in these playoffs. I don't understand why they don't just create a separate award for the best offensive defenseman like the Selke trophy for forwards. Got to be able to play well in all ends of the rink to win the Norris IMO.

     

    It's the same problem with Jonas Brodin being snubbed for the Calder this year. The guy was solid for the Wild. No love for good defense in the NHL I guess.

    [/QUOTE]

    This has been mentioned before and wouldn't be a bad idea in my view.While i can appreciate Subban's offensive skills,shot, and playmaking ability, i don't consider him the NHL's best all around d-man, but i don't have a vote and Subban did have a good year.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    Call me a homer all you want.  

    It should be Chara.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    Call me a homer all you want.  

    It should be Chara.



    I'm with ya on that, you,me and Doug MaClean all agree.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    I can't figure out the mindset of the voters to be honest. Letang had better offensive numbers and Suter is just flat out a better overall D man. I'm not at all surprised he won but I have to say that the award has really seemed to have taken on a new meaning since the days of Rod Langway winning it. Congratulations PK. Maybe next year you'll see as much ice time as Markov. On that note, am I alone in thinking that the amount of time your coach wants you to play is the truest indicator of your value to the team?  


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    I can't figure out the mindset of the voters to be honest. Letang had better offensive numbers and Suter is just flat out a better overall D man. I'm not at all surprised he won but I have to say that the award has really seemed to have taken on a new meaning since the days of Rod Langway winning it. Congratulations PK. Maybe next year you'll see as much ice time as Markov. On that note, am I alone in thinking that the amount of time your coach wants you to play is the truest indicator of your value to the team?  


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    This is what i thought as well, but again its ice time & points that impress voters the most i guess.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.



    It's obvious why folks disagree Kel. It's because he's not a great defense man. If you want to give him so much credit for winning the division then he deserves extra blame for the first round exit. His play was beyond pedestrian to the point of him being a liability on many of his shifts. Why did Markov get so much more ice time if PK was really the league's best defenseman? 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I can't figure out the mindset of the voters to be honest. Letang had better offensive numbers and Suter is just flat out a better overall D man. I'm not at all surprised he won but I have to say that the award has really seemed to have taken on a new meaning since the days of Rod Langway winning it. Congratulations PK. Maybe next year you'll see as much ice time as Markov. On that note, am I alone in thinking that the amount of time your coach wants you to play is the truest indicator of your value to the team?  


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     



    This is what i thought as well, but again its ice time & points that impress voters the most i guess.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I guess points trump ice time though 50 because Subban actually was middle of the road in that respect whereas Suter played more than anyone in the league. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rufus604. Show Rufus604's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris


    There is no doubt that Subban is a good offensive defenceman with a great 1 timer and scores some big points for his team.  That being said there is no way he is the top defenceman in the leauge.  I can name a handful of defensemen that are more important to their team and actually have a defensive aspect to their game.  This year Subban was the best forward playing in a defensemans position.  If anyone says they would rather have him over Chara, Weber, Suter, etc., they are crazy.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.



    he's not the best defensemen in the NHL. that's why everyone isn't overjoyed. I don't think he was top 5. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    It seems this announcement will occur during a 7 p.m. ET television special leading into Game 2 of the SCF.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/shows/hockey-central/montreal-canadiens-p-k-subban-will-win-norris-trophy-as-nhls-top-defenceman/

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.



    And a big reason for their quick exit. This makes a mockery of what that trophy stands for.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.

     



    It's obvious why folks disagree Kel. It's because he's not a great defenseman. If you want to give him so much credit for winning the division then he deserves extra blame for the first round exit. His play was beyond pedestrian to the point of him being a liability on many of his shifts. Why did Markov get so much more ice time if PK was really the league's best defenseman? 

     



    Because Markov is better defensively.I watch pretty much every Habs game. I'd argue outside of Price, that Markov is their most important player. How he is never mentioned for the Norris is beyond me. Perhaps because he does it quietly? If that makes any sense.

    I'm a big fan of P.K Subbans skill set, and I think the flair he brings to the game, sometimes too much, adds alot to the Bruins rivalry. I love to watch him play, and I love it when he goes into the corners with Horton and Lucic. You can tell they want to put him in the 3rd row.

    As i said, Dez, I'm a big fan of his skill set, same with Karlsson and Doughty. Are any of the three as good as Chara or Suter defensivley? No, with perhaps Doughty being the closest. But Subban did improve hs overall game this year, and your right, he was very pedestrian in the playoffs.

    I too think their should be seperate awards. One the Norris for best defenseman, and the other the can go to the defenseman with the most points. Name it the Robert G. Orr Trophy.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.

     



    It's obvious why folks disagree Kel. It's because he's not a great defenseman. If you want to give him so much credit for winning the division then he deserves extra blame for the first round exit. His play was beyond pedestrian to the point of him being a liability on many of his shifts. Why did Markov get so much more ice time if PK was really the league's best defenseman? 

     

     



    Because Markov is better defensively.I watch pretty much every Habs game. I'd argue outside of Price, that Markov is their most important player. How he is never mentioned for the Norris is beyond me. Perhaps because he does it quietly? If that makes any sense.

     

    I'm a big fan of P.K Subbans skill set, and I think the flair he brings to the game, sometimes too much, adds alot to the Bruins rivalry. I love to watch him play, and I love it when he goes into the corners with Horton and Lucic. You can tell they want to put him in the 3rd row.

    As i said, Dez, I'm a big fan of his skill set, same with Karlsson and Doughty. Are any of the three as good as Chara or Suter defensivley? No, with perhaps Doughty being the closest. But Subban did improve hs overall game this year, and your right, he was very pedestrian in the playoffs.

    I too think their should be seperate awards. One the Norris for best defenseman, and the other the can go to the defenseman with the most points. Name it the Robert G. Orr Trophy.

    [/QUOTE]

    I totally agree with you on Markov. He's still very underrated as far as I'm concerned. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    I can't figure out the mindset of the voters to be honest. Letang had better offensive numbers and Suter is just flat out a better overall D man. I'm not at all surprised he won but I have to say that the award has really seemed to have taken on a new meaning since the days of Rod Langway winning it. Congratulations PK. Maybe next year you'll see as much ice time as Markov. On that note, am I alone in thinking that the amount of time your coach wants you to play is the truest indicator of your value to the team?  


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    agree Dez, all they look at is the offensive numbers , at least most of the times. Last Karlsson the same thing, it was his point totals not his work on defense in his own end. We all saw what a good defense (Chara) can do to win a series and how bad (Letang) could being a big part why they lost the series.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    ...as if his head couldn't be any bigger.

    He's still an immature, diving, arrogant, toreador style defense player in this league and will never lead his team anywhere. His antics alone should be enough to disqualify him from getting this award.

    He can skate like the wind and had a great shot though.

    If I was starting a team he wouldn't be in my top 8-10 DMen chosen.

     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    Dez and I had a nice little bit of chatter going back and forth on this.  After watching the playoffs and seeing a Drew Doughty or our own guy its pretty clear that PK isnt close to their level.  Can he be someday?  Maybe, I'm not sure.  Love his game hate his brain and mind set.   I love that he competes, hate that he is an annoying diver that is gutless. 

    No way did I expect him to win the award this year but based on how he played he should be in consideration.  I think PK will grow to learn to be a shut down type of player.  He had a great year.  I'm not sure using the pts debate as an excuse is a good one since paul coffee couldnt defend at all. 

    PK has major flaws in his game.   I do believe he is one of the true game changers in the league at a very young age.  If he can somehow get a grip of all those negatives and works on his own end he could be truly great.  Zero leadership abaility is probably the biggest flaw in my eyes.  I hate his antics.  He's an idiot.  Amazing skill, skating ability, probably the hardest accurate shot I've ever seen, hits, takes chances out of confidence. 

    I think his season compared to everyone he is deserving.  I don't think he's the leagues best dman.  Not after watching Drew and Chara this year. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to BsLegion's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    I can't figure out the mindset of the voters to be honest. Letang had better offensive numbers and Suter is just flat out a better overall D man. I'm not at all surprised he won but I have to say that the award has really seemed to have taken on a new meaning since the days of Rod Langway winning it. Congratulations PK. Maybe next year you'll see as much ice time as Markov. On that note, am I alone in thinking that the amount of time your coach wants you to play is the truest indicator of your value to the team?  


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     



    agree Dez, all they look at is the offensive numbers , at least most of the times. Last Karlsson the same thing, it was his point totals not his work on defense in his own end. We all saw what a good defense (Chara) can do to win a series and how bad (Letang) could being a big part why they lost the series.

     



    I dont buy into this theory.  His position is defense.   It doesn't mean he has to be Rod Langway.  Chara is a unique beast and I will never say bad of his game.  But the same way a Chara can change a game a series and Karlsson or Letang can also change or influence a series.  Letang stunk in this yrs playoffs but hes a good dman.  Karlsson is the same.  Nic Lidstrom was one of the smartest dmen in the league.  Not really known for a shut down dman but I sure as heck would want him on the ice. 
    If the game was on the line I would want a Chara defending and a Letang/PK/Karlsson when trailing. 

    All the skill puck mover types are very fleat of foot, can pass and normally have the puck and are out of trouble before it happens.  I don't think this is a flaw.  Green is probably the best example and even he has improved his def game.  And the one thing to remember here is that you can always teach playing a solid tight defensive game.  You can not teach what these guys have. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.



    Speaking for myself I am not 'upset' at all.  I think Subban has become an elite player and can certainly be a game-changer.  I don't think he deserves the Norris, for a variety of reasons.  One of the reasons is that Zdeno Chara is both a better player and a better defender.

    Some of the other reaons:

    He's not the best offensive defensmen in the league.

    He's not the best defensive defensmen in the league.

    He's not the best 'intangibles' defensmen in the league (128th in blocked shots, well below Suter, Chara, Letang).

    He's 35th in the league in TOI (well behind Suter, Letang, Chara)

    He doesn't even led Hab defensemen in TOI, which means a lot to me.

    His team bowed out in the 1st round of the playoffs, to a lower seed.

    His antics and behavior are sometimes a distraction and embarassment to his team.

     

    I know how good he can be.  He does certain things better than anyone and is a fright to watch play against the Bruins.  But I remain totally puzzled as to why people think he is THE best defensmen in the NHL.  He isn't.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ronstar8. Show Ronstar8's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    Agree with most of you guys. I hate him but I guess that means he's doing his job. What I don't get is how the Norris has taken on a different meaning. Karlsson last year, Subban this year. Don't get me wrong, they had outstanding years but to try and make the argument that Karlsson and Subban are the best defenceman in league the past 2 years is crazy.

    I think there are a lot of intangibles that define what a true elite defenceman is and they are not being taken into account. It should be so much more than points. Average TOI, who they play against (match ups), special teams TOI, games played, etc.

    Subban great player: Yes. Great defenceman: I don't think so.

    My winners this year:

    Orr trophy (best offensive dman) --> Subban

    Norris trophy (best all around dman) --> Chara

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     

    Shupe, you cant see it but I'm raising my hand up waiting for the high five.


    I dont know what everyone is so upset about. He had a terrific year. A big reason they won the division.

     



    Speaking for myself I am not 'upset' at all.  I think Subban has become an elite player and can certainly be a game-changer.  I don't think he deserves the Norris, for a variety of reasons.  One of the reasons is that Zdeno Chara is both a better player and a better defender.

     

    Some of the other reaons:

    He's not the best offensive defensmen in the league.

    He's not the best defensive defensmen in the league.

    He's not the best 'intangibles' defensmen in the league (128th in blocked shots, well below Suter, Chara, Letang).

    He's 35th in the league in TOI (well behind Suter, Letang, Chara)

    He doesn't even led Hab defensemen in TOI, which means a lot to me.

    His team bowed out in the 1st round of the playoffs, to a lower seed.

    His antics and behavior are sometimes a distraction and embarassment to his team.

     

    I know how good he can be.  He does certain things better than anyone and is a fright to watch play against the Bruins.  But I remain totally puzzled as to why people think he is THE best defensmen in the NHL.  He isn't.

     

     



    Do you think every Norris Trophy has been rewarded based on this? 
    - he was the best offensive dman this year.
    - he has improved his def game and isn't Mike Green.  I think Girardi or McDonaugh are great defenders.  I think Kronwall is a great defender.  I think Chara is the best defender.
    - I don't want PK laying in front of shots.  I want him on the ice.  Probably a big reason he doesnt get to kill pims. 
    - His icetime will increase.  He lead all players in the 7 game series against Boston a few yrs back.  Once his def improves so will his minutes. 
    - I agree on his antics. 

    I'm not saying you Fletch but many on here hate him and I understand why.  I just think if you watch him play you appreciate what he does(as you've stated).  He's a special talent.  I don't think every Norris winner has lead in all the things you have broken down.  I don't think he's the best dman in the league.  He makes my team Canada team but barely.  I do consider him an elite top dman in the league.  Many on here don't or didn't. 

    Dez and I had a friendly war of words going.  Black Spidey wins this one but I've lost so many to him I lost count.  And on this I agree with Dez more then I did before.  I watched every Kings game.  Drew is a complete stud.  Keith is a complete stud.  Chara is the best defender in the world.  PK is not these yet.  This award says he might be but he isnt.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from xdrive. Show xdrive's posts

    Re: Subban to win Norris

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Call me a homer all you want.  

    It should be Chara.

     



    I'm with ya on that, you,me and Doug MaClean all agree.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Penguins probably agree too

     

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