Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    I can't wait for this game Thursday night. I absolutely can't wait.

    Having watched a lot of Edmonton games, I am impressed with both players. They are both top end talent and will be in the league a long time, as all-stars. However, at this point in their careers, I think the dust is finally starting to settle a bit on who has the most talent, and I think it's clearly Tyler Seguin.

    As many on these boards can report, the Taylor Tyler draft year was euphoric. Most of us were tied up in it; I certainly was. But since the draft, I've stayed a huge fan of Edmonton, and am a regular reader of their blog, "The Cult of Hockey". I've seen every goal these young players have ever scored at the NHL level, and regularly review David Staples scoring chance reporting he does after every game. 

    One thing is clear after following the Oilers for this long: Taylor Hall is over-rated. Now, that doesn't mean that he is not a fantastic player, It doesn't mean that he won't be a top 5 left wing in the years to come. What I mean is, the Oilers fan base thinks Taylor Hall and RNH are the best players not named Sidney Crosby. They certainly believe that Hall is a far superior player to Seguin, and that they did not make a mistake drafting hall even though they have a wealth of wingers and severely lack talent down the middle outside of RNH.

    This bothers me for three reasons:
    1) Taylor Hall was on the worst team in the league, and was given top minutes on even strength and the PP. Last year alone he scored 8 power play goals
    2) Taylor Hall is credited as being the better offensive player. Oilers fans make this claim as if it's trivial. However, when you watch each players goals, I think TS blows Hall away.
    3) How can a fan base become so brainwashed, that its hard to even find even a single person with differing opinion about that draft.

    So, being pissed off and wanting TS to get the recognition he deserves I decided to document every goal each player has scored and created an objective "Absolute Snipe" percentage to go along with commentary about each player. 

    Taylor Hall: 25 career goals, 78 gp
    Absolute Snipes: 3
    Absolute Snipes: 12%  
    . ---------------
    Tyler Seguin: 19 gareer goals, 87 GP, 3 playoff goals, 13 playoff games
    Absolute Snipes: 12
    Snipe Percentage: 55%

    Here is the link: I've included links and commentary for every goal. Please click on the date if you want to see the video  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fqKurqpB_26JIedrDaohKkO3aYKpuQfb1VsaYbVAg0Y/edit



    Wrap up: Taylor Hall is a good player, but he's not in the same league as Seguin shooting the puck. Most of Hall's goals are from grinding hard to the net and picking up loose pucks. He can show you flashes of greatness, but he absolutely does not have what Seguin has in terms of elite goal scoring on his record. Perhaps he will show it at some point, but for now its clear:

    Tyler Seguin is the better player, and it isn't even close.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Hall gets more attention because of his obvious physical presence and  moves but at the end of the day he flatters to deceive. Sequin gets the job done without all the attention seeking.     
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    any relation to wesely?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    i almost never see Edmonton play so i too am excited to see Hall and Hopkins.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macfact. Show Macfact's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-bruins/news/Bergeron-Seguin-pairing-getting-results?blockID=590864&feedID=3944

    With Bergy feeding him pucks Seguin will be the better player.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]I can't wait for this game Thursday night. I absolutely can't wait. Having watched a lot of Edmonton games, I am impressed with both players. They are both top end talent and will be in the league a long time, as all-stars. However, at this point in their careers, I think the dust is finally starting to settle a bit on who has the most talent, and I think it's clearly Tyler Seguin. As many on these boards can report, the Taylor Tyler draft year was euphoric. Most of us were tied up in it; I certainly was. But since the draft, I've stayed a huge fan of Edmonton, and am a regular reader of their blog, "The Cult of Hockey". I've seen every goal these young players have ever scored at the NHL level, and regularly review David Staples scoring chance reporting he does after every game.  One thing is clear after following the Oilers for this long: Taylor Hall is over-rated. Now, that doesn't mean that he is not a fantastic player, It doesn't mean that he won't be a top 5 left wing in the years to come. What I mean is, the Oilers fan base thinks Taylor Hall and RNH are the best players not named Sidney Crosby. They certainly believe that Hall is a far superior player to Seguin, and that they did not make a mistake drafting hall even though they have a wealth of wingers and severely lack talent down the middle outside of RNH. This bothers me for three reasons: 1) Taylor Hall was on the worst team in the league, and was given top minutes on even strength and the PP. Last year alone he scored 8 power play goals 2) Taylor Hall is credited as being the better offensive player. Oilers fans make this claim as if it's trivial. However, when you watch each players goals, I think TS blows Hall away. 3) How can a fan base become so brainwashed, that its hard to even find even a single person with differing opinion about that draft. So, being pissed off and wanting TS to get the recognition he deserves I decided to document every goal each player has scored and created an objective " Absolute Snipe"  percentage to go along with commentary about each player.  Taylor Hall: 25 career goals, 78 gp Absolute Snipes: 3 Absolute Snipes: 12%   . --------------- Tyler Seguin: 19 gareer goals, 87 GP, 3 playoff goals, 13 playoff games Absolute Snipes: 12 Snipe Percentage: 55% Here is the link: I've included links and commentary for every goal. Please click on the date if you want to see the video   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fqKurqpB_26JIedrDaohKkO3aYKpuQfb1VsaYbVAg0Y/edit Wrap up:  Taylor Hall is a good player, but he's not in the same league as Seguin shooting the puck. Most of Hall's goals are from grinding hard to the net and picking up loose pucks. He can show you flashes of greatness, but he absolutely does not have what Seguin has in terms of elite goal scoring on his record. Perhaps he will show it at some point, but for now its clear: Tyler Seguin is the better player, and it isn't even close.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Great post and analysis.  I haven't watched Hall play much at all, but am in complete agreement on the quality of Seguin's goals.  He's not out there scoring goals because of speed and hard work, the kid can finish with the best of them.  On top of that, he also has the vision to make the passes that only the best can make.

    I think we are seeing what central scouting was talking about when they ranked him #1 of Hall.  Hall was more NHL ready, Seguin has the higher skill level/potential

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    I'm completely impressed with the amount of effort in your research, and you may very well be correct on Seguin....but there are SO many factors that go into making a player great. Sniping ability is one, but does it really matter how a guy gets his goals? That's like trying to compare Espo with Jagr. Roughly same # of games and points...completely different styles.

    How do you account for defensive game (and don't give me +/-, which is a team stat)? And linemates make all the difference, too. Pair anyone with Bergeron, and they'll have a career year.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]I'm completely impressed with the amount of effort in your research, and you may very well be correct on Seguin....but there are SO many factors that go into making a player great. Sniping ability is one, but does it really matter how a guy gets his goals? That's like trying to compare Espo with Jagr. Roughly same # of games and points...completely different styles. How do you account for defensive game (and don't give me +/-, which is a team stat)? And linemates make all the difference, too. Pair anyone with Bergeron, and they'll have a career year.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]
    Asmaha, I had immediately thought of Tim Kerr after reading Olsonic's post. Four 50 goal seasons in a row and not a snipe in the bunch. Agree on the great research but tend to think all goals look the same in the boxscores. I think Hall and Seguin are both good at making use of their teammates to create offense. I just think Seguin is less dependent upon them.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    I personally haven't seen enough of Hall to make a judgement. Plus I think it's waaay too early in their careers to make a call either way. Sure, in this early part of the season Seguin appears to be playing better but Hall could go on a tear for the next 10 games and all of a sudden he looks like the better player. Too small os a sample.
    Regarding the Edmonton fans being 100% biased towards Hall and perhaps giving him too much love.....isn't that what fans do? I think it happens here in Boston too, just to a slightly less degree.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Last season Hall looked better as the scouts were saying he was more NHL ready than Seguin .
    This season though Seguin looks better, he's all over the ice (playing all 3 zones)  and also his stats are better.
    The one thing Hall right now has over Seguin is his physical presence. Last night he steam rolled a couple of Habs, impressive.
    Can we say a slow development with a better team, playoff experince has Seguin looking better ?
    Hard to prove although there are players and coaches that mention the experience they get in the playoffs for a rookie is like gold. 

    I've been very impressed with Seguin's game this season but I cannot say the same about Hall. I've watched 4 games of the Oilers and he's looked good but not impressive.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Klaas. Show Klaas's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-bruins/news/Bergeron-Seguin-pairing-getting-results?blockID=590864&feedID=3944 With Bergy feeding him pucks Seguin will be the better player.
    Posted by Macfact[/QUOTE]
    That link is a great article.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Ask the same question on an Edmonton board and you'll get different answers. Tyler is hot right now, but both are going to have very productive careers. it'll be fun to watch and debate this their whole careers and wouldnt suprise me of both are teammates on Team Canada and meet in the Cup Finals..Gotta say though, while he doesnt always Hall has the oppurtunity to play with RNH and Jordan Eberle...and are they fun to watch on that power play.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Saw this being discussed on HF boards..

    Who's a better skater, Taylor or Tyler.

    I haven't seen enough of Taylor but Tyler is a fantastic skater. He is insanely agile, fast and accelerates faster than anyone I've ever seen in black and gold.

    What do you guys think, the sentiment on HF boards was mixed but there was a large crowd that though hall was far and away a better skater.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dalexander2424. Show dalexander2424's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]Saw this being discussed on HF boards.. Who's a better skater, Taylor or Tyler. I haven't seen enough of Taylor but Tyler is a fantastic skater. He is insanely agile, fast and accelerates faster than anyone I've ever seen in black and gold. What do you guys think, the sentiment on HF boards was mixed but there was a large crowd that though hall was far and away a better skater.
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]
    From what I've seen of Hall he seems to have a longer stride than Seguin does. I think Seguin is better at acceleration but Hall might be faster open ice. I could be wrong though I don't see a ton of Hall. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    How about just saying they are both excellent players who will only get better.

    The one thing Seguin has that Hall does not is a Ring.  Although they had different roles in their 1st year,  they both will be playing on Playoff teams for years to come.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Surely, we can see who the better player is now.
    And who will be the greater player.

    Seguin can do everything with the puck and with speed. He can make it sing, if you want him to.

    Hall can speed down the wing and go to the net, and that's it folks. (Not that there is anything wrong with that)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    The difference I've seen this season versus last season from both players is the reverse. Hall is trying to force his play up against three defenders, attempting to make something happen out of nothing. RNH sets himself constantly in the right position for a snipe, or as Dez mentioned about one of my favorite players from the eighties, a garbage goal put back.

    Seguin did allot last year what Taylor is doing this season getting forced wide to the boards, take a wild shot over the goal while in traffic or stripped of the puck. Hall is going to be good but he has been trying to force the issue cause Eberle and RNH have gelled while Taylor gets frustrated. Can't wait for tomorrow either Ols!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]The difference I've seen this season versus last season from both players is the reverse. Hall is trying to force his play up against three defenders, attempting to make something happen out of nothing. RNH sets himself constantly in the right position for a snipe, or as Dez mentioned about one of my favorite players from the eighties, a garbage goal put back. Seguin did allot last year what Taylor is doing this season getting forced wide to the boards, take a wild shot over the goal while in traffic or stripped of the puck. Hall is going to be good but he has been trying to force the issue cause Eberle and RNH have gelled while Taylor gets frustrated. Can't wait for tomorrow either Ols!
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Dawg - The Oilers' hot start has gathered them increased coverage up here on television so I've seen several of their games.  You're bang on in your take on Hall.  I've seen the one vs three element of his game almost every time I've watched him this season.  Reminds me a lot of former Cap, Leaf, North Star, Ranger and Coyote Mike Gartner who routinely used to rocket down his wing, get played off to the side by the D, circle the net and either take a sharp angle shot or pass it back to the point.  Seguin seems to be making better use of those around him at this point which to me gives him an added dimension. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]I can't wait for this game Thursday night. I absolutely can't wait. Having watched a lot of Edmonton games, I am impressed with both players. They are both top end talent and will be in the league a long time, as all-stars. However, at this point in their careers, I think the dust is finally starting to settle a bit on who has the most talent, and I think it's clearly Tyler Seguin. As many on these boards can report, the Taylor Tyler draft year was euphoric. Most of us were tied up in it; I certainly was. But since the draft, I've stayed a huge fan of Edmonton, and am a regular reader of their blog, "The Cult of Hockey". I've seen every goal these young players have ever scored at the NHL level, and regularly review David Staples scoring chance reporting he does after every game.  One thing is clear after following the Oilers for this long: Taylor Hall is over-rated. Now, that doesn't mean that he is not a fantastic player, It doesn't mean that he won't be a top 5 left wing in the years to come. What I mean is, the Oilers fan base thinks Taylor Hall and RNH are the best players not named Sidney Crosby. They certainly believe that Hall is a far superior player to Seguin, and that they did not make a mistake drafting hall even though they have a wealth of wingers and severely lack talent down the middle outside of RNH. This bothers me for three reasons: 1) Taylor Hall was on the worst team in the league, and was given top minutes on even strength and the PP. Last year alone he scored 8 power play goals 2) Taylor Hall is credited as being the better offensive player. Oilers fans make this claim as if it's trivial. However, when you watch each players goals, I think TS blows Hall away. 3) How can a fan base become so brainwashed, that its hard to even find even a single person with differing opinion about that draft. So, being pissed off and wanting TS to get the recognition he deserves I decided to document every goal each player has scored and created an objective " Absolute Snipe"  percentage to go along with commentary about each player.  Taylor Hall: 25 career goals, 78 gp Absolute Snipes: 3 Absolute Snipes: 12%   . --------------- Tyler Seguin: 19 gareer goals, 87 GP, 3 playoff goals, 13 playoff games Absolute Snipes: 12 Snipe Percentage: 55% Here is the link: I've included links and commentary for every goal. Please click on the date if you want to see the video   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fqKurqpB_26JIedrDaohKkO3aYKpuQfb1VsaYbVAg0Y/edit Wrap up:  Taylor Hall is a good player, but he's not in the same league as Seguin shooting the puck. Most of Hall's goals are from grinding hard to the net and picking up loose pucks. He can show you flashes of greatness, but he absolutely does not have what Seguin has in terms of elite goal scoring on his record. Perhaps he will show it at some point, but for now its clear: Tyler Seguin is the better player, and it isn't even close.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Oddly enough, I think that Tyler is a bit "snake bit" in the snipe regard, he's earned virtually every one of his goals; he hasn't had many tap-ins or "layup" type goals, I don't think he's gotten an empty netter yet, and I certainly don't recall any garbage goals or what I call "seeing eye pucks" where they make it in through a crowd.  And he's not like other goal scorers who take a billion shots on goal
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelf101. Show michaelf101's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    It looks like a good thing the Bruins picked second
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Let's see what tomorrow adds to this debate!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Kinda funny that the OP criticizes Edmonton fans for picking Hall about 100%, yet essentially every poster here just knows Seguin is the better player.

    I still see Hall as a better skater and sniper or not, many of Seguin's goals have depended on a dish from a linemate.  Hall still looks a little better at taking it to the next by himself.

    Its simply too soon to make any valid comparison.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dalexander2424. Show dalexander2424's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Would it be too biased of me to say that whoever the Bruins picked was going to be at least the better all around player? Seguin was able to ease into the NHL while learning to play defense and getting stronger while Hall was forced to be the number one guy from the beginning. I think if the roles were reversed Hall would be a better play, but as of right now Seguin will be at least be better in all three zones.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Seguin is better, he's a Bruin.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Can we just say that we're lucky to have Seguin? They're two different style players. Seguin's a bit of an east-west (although he still has insane high-end speed), while Hall is more of a north-south skater. Hall may be a little stronger on the puck and in the corners, while Seguin is more effective in space, while neither of them are poor at either. I'd say that neither of them are bad defensively (it's hard to pick up as a young forward), but the thing that Seguin has that Hall does not is the ability to make other players around him better by seeing the ice better. Hall doesn't do that.
    In a nutshell, it would be kind of cool for these two to be the new Crosby/Ovechkin pairing.
     

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