The Hamilton Question

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    The Hamilton Question

    What is reasonable to expect from him?

    I find Scotty Bowman's old line about every rookie in the lineup costing you x number of games (I can't remember what the number way) is generally accurate.  High-value rookies will help you win, but they will also, because they are rookies, make bonehead plays that cost you games.  There's no way around it, and you hope that your team is significantly more talented with that rookie in the lineup than the vet who might have replaced him.  I was thinking about this on Sunday when Atlanta took out the Seahawks.  Russell Wilson made a rookie mistake at the end of the first half that cost the Hawks a field goal attempt.  The Seahawks ultimately lost the game by less than a field goal.  You can look at that one moment and say, yes, there are all sorts of other things that might have gone differently if other players had been better, but that's a play where a typical rookie mistake is easy to isolate for its damage to Wilson's chances of winning.

    These will happen to Hamilton.  He'll miss a coverage, pull a Wideman trying to get back on a two on one, make a terrible pass that puts the puck on Crosby's stick in the slot.  It's going to happen mid-way through the third in a tied game, result in a goal and a spot in the doghouse, and cost the Bruins a game.  Be prepared for it because there's nothing you can do about it.  He's a rookie.

    I think his overall impact on the Bruins will be more significant for the pressure it puts on the opposing D - he can make better long passes than most of the Bruin D, and, if he isn't scared into submission by Julien, he has the instinct and the stride to appear in the rush unexpectedly.  Just the need to account for what he can do will open up space, and that will make a difference even if it isn't immediately obvious that it's Hamilton that is making it happen.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    It's funny you mention Wideman, because I expect him to be a lot like Wideman as he grows into his game.  Good offensively and a smooth skater who makes mistakes and a few more tunrovers than you would like.  Besides the offense, my hope is that Hamilton brings the ability to both skate and pass the puck out of the zone when caught in deep.  The Bruins don't have d-men that are very good at this.  Nobody skates the puck out of the d-zone very well, and I swear the Bruins reverse the puck behind their own net more than any other team.

    I expect some turnovers and some missed coverages on D, but I hope that Hamilton can help, immediately, with the breakout.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Book, I figure you've pretty much nailed it regarding my expectations for Hamilton. I expect he will make significant contributions but he'll also make some plays that'll leave you scratching your head. Last night was fairly indicative of that. He looked good moving the puck and played fairly well overall but in looking back on his performance, the play that stands out in my mind was him allowing a goal to Florek after letting him have 5 or 6 whacks at the puck. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    I'm not going to hold too high expectations. The only thing I hope he brings is to help out that miserable pp in a 48 game season it'll be needed. I see Ward is still in charge. Why Book?? Why isn't Jarvis in charge of the pp?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    I think this will get tossed around a lot.  Rookie forwards can make mistakes and not cost games. Not the same with D.  Confidence will be his biggest stumbling block.  D take time to mature.  Pronger for example.  He's not going to be an allstar.  He's not going to be the best player most nights.  It's not going to happen.  I think if they use him right he can help and learn.  I also have no problem with him being sent back to junior and then send to AHL.  He has veteran D to learn from in boston.  All with cup rings.  

    I like the Redden idea.  I think he could easily play with Chara.  

    ps.  I offered a friendly bet that Gomez will play in the NHL again.  Even before new ruling.  I say he gets picked up quickly.  Possibly van where they are dying for a center.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Be aggressive

    don't play scared

    don't play soft

    mistakes will happen, it's part of the process - not a big deal for me early on

    fingers crossed that CJ gives him the freedom to make em

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Good stuff Book, but I don't buy the rookies costing X number of games etc..I know my resume isnt Scotty Bowmans but I just dont agree with it. I agree the chances of them making a mistake increases due to the fact that they are rookies, but as far as putting a number on how many games they cost, I can't buy into it. Peyton Manning made a crucial mistake during Sundays game, an absolute god awful pass...Then I think back to how many games Seguin cost the Bruins as a rookie, can't really find one, but I do remember the playoff game against Tampa Bay where he just broke out...Again, good stuff, just respectfully disagree.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Hamilton should be a number 5 or 6 on defense like Seguin in his first year.  Hamilton can only improve the power play as Geoff Ward et al seemingly have not.  

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Didn't you guys see the game last night?

    I understand it was just one game, yes and he probably had the jitters being up with the big club, but he was just awful.  I saw 2 passes he couldn't contain that looked like they were good passes.

    I had high hopes for the kid, I even have him picked for the Calder.

    I know, just one game, but wow was that ever a stinker.  He looked far better in last year's exhibition games.

    What the heck happened?  It was more than just the couple of flubbed passes or mistakes, he looked like he had no skills.  It would all make sense if I learned he had an ENORMOUS hangover or something.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    "Russell Wilson made a rookie mistake at the end of the first half that cost the Hawks a field goal attempt.  The Seahawks ultimately lost the game by less than a field goal.  You can look at that one moment and say, yes, there are all sorts of other things that might have gone differently if other players had been better, but that's a play where a typical rookie mistake is easy to isolate for its damage to Wilson's chances of winning."

    Ask Pom Pon Pete if Seattle would be in the playoffs without Wilson but don't ask him about when to call timeouts...

     

    @JW all of what he said especially the last part - TOI

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.




    That would be interesting. I think it was just assumed by many that Hamilton would walk in and take a top 4 spot. If he is sent back to juniors I am not sure who moves up. McQuaid is a bottom pairing guy and just coming off a major injury to boot. Johnson? Bartkowsi? Warsofsky? Hmm.....

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    Didn't you guys see the game last night?

    I understand it was just one game, yes and he probably had the jitters being up with the big club, but he was just awful.  I saw 2 passes he couldn't contain that looked like they were good passes.

    I had high hopes for the kid, I even have him picked for the Calder.

    I know, just one game, but wow was that ever a stinker.  He looked far better in last year's exhibition games.

    What the heck happened?  It was more than just the couple of flubbed passes or mistakes, he looked like he had no skills.  It would all make sense if I learned he had an ENORMOUS hangover or something.



    19 yr old Dmen never come in and dominate.  They all have growing pains.  Wingers go up and down the ice.  Dmen run the game and at that speed level it takes time.   I look at Schultz in Edmonton.  He is a mature player, had AHL time and is ready.  I want Hamilton to get seasoning in the AHL.  Look at Myers in buffalo.  Awesome year one.  Regression in year two.  

    If Hamilton sticks he has to be with chara or seidz.  Play him in all situations early on.  Let him mirror charas 30 minutes a night.  patience is key with any young player. Especially someone trying to play defence.  He's not seguIn. A fwd can have an off night and still do ok.  Have an off night on the back end and you lose games. 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

     




    That would be interesting. I think it was just assumed by many that Hamilton would walk in and take a top 4 spot. If he is sent back to juniors I am not sure who moves up. McQuaid is a bottom pairing guy and just coming off a major injury to boot. Johnson? Bartkowsi? Warsofsky? Hmm.....

     



    I've been chatting about this recently.  We need a solid dman pickup.  Someone who can log some key minutes.  McQ is not a top 4. Neither is AF. Boychuk is borderline.  Chara seidz are studs.  After them it's a crap shoot for minutes.  

    I like the redden idea.  He played with chara.  Would come cheap and will do everything to show the world why he was a world class player.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

     




    That would be interesting. I think it was just assumed by many that Hamilton would walk in and take a top 4 spot. If he is sent back to juniors I am not sure who moves up. McQuaid is a bottom pairing guy and just coming off a major injury to boot. Johnson? Bartkowsi? Warsofsky? Hmm.....

     

     



    I've been chatting about this recently.  We need a solid dman pickup.  Someone who can log some key minutes.  McQ is not a top 4. Neither is AF. Boychuk is borderline.  Chara seidz are studs.  After them it's a crap shoot for minutes.  

     

    I like the redden idea.  He played with chara.  Would come cheap and will do everything to show the world why he was a world class player.  




    I have been rather cold to the Redden idea since Freidman mentioned it because, well, its Redden....a guy who has been sucking even in the AHL. That said, he may well be a decent temporary option, provided he comes cheap as you say. We should have suspected something was up with that report, obviously PC is starting to weigh his options.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

     

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

     




    That would be interesting. I think it was just assumed by many that Hamilton would walk in and take a top 4 spot. If he is sent back to juniors I am not sure who moves up. McQuaid is a bottom pairing guy and just coming off a major injury to boot. Johnson? Bartkowsi? Warsofsky? Hmm.....

     

     



    I've been chatting about this recently.  We need a solid dman pickup.  Someone who can log some key minutes.  McQ is not a top 4. Neither is AF. Boychuk is borderline.  Chara seidz are studs.  After them it's a crap shoot for minutes.  

     

    I like the redden idea.  He played with chara.  Would come cheap and will do everything to show the world why he was a world class player.  

     




    I have been rather cold to the Redden idea since Freidman mentioned it because, well, its Redden....a guy who has been sucking even in the AHL. That said, he may well be a decent temporary option, provided he comes cheap as you say. We should have suspected something was up with that report, obviously PC is starting to weigh his options.

     



    If used correctly I think redden would be a perfect fit.  Souray stunk as well in the AHL.  He didn't stink in duck land last year.  And redden is twice the player SS is.  Redden has a good first outlet pass.  If he partnered with chara for a while I'd like it.  If he doesn't work use him as a 7 d.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.




    Why do you think 10th round draft pick Bob Beers is in a radio booth and not a scout, on an NHL development team or a coach ?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Age old debate when you have a rookie pencilled into a spot where he may or may not be ready.  Get a veteran to lock it down vs. create room for the rookie.  No matter which way this falls, we already know the theme of what will follow.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.




     

    Why do you think 10th round draft pick Bob Beers is in a radio booth and not a scout, on an NHL development team or a coach ?




    Hey, don't get me wrong, I am very high on this kid.

    But he was just horrendous last night.

    Again - what happened?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    Didn't you guys see the game last night?

    I understand it was just one game, yes and he probably had the jitters being up with the big club, but he was just awful.  I saw 2 passes he couldn't contain that looked like they were good passes.

    I had high hopes for the kid, I even have him picked for the Calder.

    I know, just one game, but wow was that ever a stinker.  He looked far better in last year's exhibition games.

    What the heck happened?  It was more than just the couple of flubbed passes or mistakes, he looked like he had no skills.  It would all make sense if I learned he had an ENORMOUS hangover or something.

     



    19 yr old Dmen never come in and dominate.  They all have growing pains.  Wingers go up and down the ice.  Dmen run the game and at that speed level it takes time.   I look at Schultz in Edmonton.  He is a mature player, had AHL time and is ready.  I want Hamilton to get seasoning in the AHL.  Look at Myers in buffalo.  Awesome year one.  Regression in year two.  

     

    If Hamilton sticks he has to be with chara or seidz.  Play him in all situations early on.  Let him mirror charas 30 minutes a night.  patience is key with any young player. Especially someone trying to play defence.  He's not seguIn. A fwd can have an off night and still do ok.  Have an off night on the back end and you lose games. 



    So you're saying wind him up & let him go. That's a gamble I like, but as you know CJ as a coach...Do you think he'd do that?  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

    Why do you think 10th round draft pick Bob Beers is in a radio booth and not a scout, on an NHL development team or a coach ?

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Hey, don't get me wrong, I am very high on this kid.

    But he was just horrendous last night.

    Again - what happened? [/QUOTE]


    It was a scrimmage and Hamilton is 19 years young.

    Do you think the Bruins (yes I know the PBruins were) were playing at absolute full speed ?

    How is mishandling a few passes Horrendous ?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Just throwing this out there...OK? Don't send the linch mob. IF you're PC do you even consider giving Hamilton to the Habs for the rights of PK Subban? Let's just say that Chara, Looch, McQuaid & Thornton put the fear of GOD into him & tell him that if he doesn't stop his antics they'll castrate him. Would any of you think about making this kind of deal?

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    Didn't you guys see the game last night?

    I understand it was just one game, yes and he probably had the jitters being up with the big club, but he was just awful.  I saw 2 passes he couldn't contain that looked like they were good passes.

    I had high hopes for the kid, I even have him picked for the Calder.

    I know, just one game, but wow was that ever a stinker.  He looked far better in last year's exhibition games.

    What the heck happened?  It was more than just the couple of flubbed passes or mistakes, he looked like he had no skills.  It would all make sense if I learned he had an ENORMOUS hangover or something.

     



    19 yr old Dmen never come in and dominate.  They all have growing pains.  Wingers go up and down the ice.  Dmen run the game and at that speed level it takes time.   I look at Schultz in Edmonton.  He is a mature player, had AHL time and is ready.  I want Hamilton to get seasoning in the AHL.  Look at Myers in buffalo.  Awesome year one.  Regression in year two.  

     

    If Hamilton sticks he has to be with chara or seidz.  Play him in all situations early on.  Let him mirror charas 30 minutes a night.  patience is key with any young player. Especially someone trying to play defence.  He's not seguIn. A fwd can have an off night and still do ok.  Have an off night on the back end and you lose games. 

     



    So you're saying wind him up & let him go. That's a gamble I like, but as you know CJ as a coach...Do you think he'd do that?  

     



    Well u don't learn on he bench.  I keep saying the learning curve is more difficult on the backend. So two options.  

    1. Play the life outta him with chara.  Let him ride shotgun and learn from the most dominant dman-player in the game.  Chara can fix mistakes.  Chara can make up for them and allow Hamilton to find his offence and learn the league.  

    2.  Send him back to junior and then AHL for playoffs. Maybe 20 games down next year on the farm.  

    I prefer option 2.  But I would love to see option 1. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    Problem with letting him ride Chara is your not paying Chara to babysit or cover for a rookies mistakes. Your paying him to be one of the best d-men in the league. Teams will go after his side so much, you'll be asking alot of him. He wont mirror Charas 30 minutes because some of those minutes are penalty kill and lete game minutes. Chances are he wont be out there in his rookie year anyways..

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: The Hamilton Question

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:and I never thought I'd say this, but even the anouncers last night were talking about sending Hamilton back to jr during or after his 6 game limit.

    Why do you think 10th round draft pick Bob Beers is in a radio booth and not a scout, on an NHL development team or a coach ?

    _______________________________________________________________________

    Hey, don't get me wrong, I am very high on this kid.

    But he was just horrendous last night.

    Again - what happened?




    It was a scrimmage and Hamilton is 19 years young.

    Do you think the Bruins (yes I know the PBruins were) were playing at absolute full speed ?

    How is mishandling a few passes Horrendous ?

    [/QUOTE]

    Not just mishandling the passes, but he seemed lost & wasn't skating.

    Yes, it was just a scrimmage and yes he was 19 but in all of the times I've seen him he's never looked so out of place as last night.  It worries me because I've seen it, you've seen it, we've all seen it where some kid has all kinds of promise, plays a few nhl preseason games and looks great and then one day all of a suddenhe's a different person and 2 years later he's not playing hockey anymore.  I could give you examples but I don't remember their names, and that's just it - no one remember them anymore.

     
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