The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I would absolutely include Rask, Fletch, but wouldn't include Paille.

    The Sabres got a second round pick for a future fourth line player.



    BOSTON, MA - Boston Bruins General Manager Peter Chiarelli announced today that the club has acquired forward Daniel Paille from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for Boston’s natural third round pick in 2010 and a conditional fourth round pick in 2010

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to stevegm's comment:


    I agree with everything except the summary.  I think we need to consider more than Cups.  One player doesn't win or lose them.  I don't think winning a cup in 77 would have made any difference for the Rangers, in those Esposito, and Hodge deals.  The Bruins won that one, because Park, Ratelle, and Middleton had a longer, more proficient body of work than Esposito, Vadnais, and Hodge.  Kaberle is an example going the other way.  The fact that the B's won the cup doesn't make this a great deal, it just glosses it over.

     

     

    "Whoever gets the best player wins".  That used to be a philosophy that many agreed with.  I think it still applies, except money has to be tied to it now days, which really convolutes things.  Makes it more interesting too though.

     



    According to this, you believe Calgary "won" the Iginla/Niuwendyk trade? 

     

    I think that Dallas winning the Cup was worth a lot more than fans watching Iginla score 40 goals and not win the Cup.

    If neither team wins a Cup with effects from a trade, then I agree it's a best player scenario.  What happens if Matteau isn't on that Rangers team?  Amonte was clearly the better player, but there isn't a Rangers fan on Earth that would trade 1994 for a couple of 100 point seasons.

     




    You cant live in a "what if" world. Rangers had a need at the time, they deemed Matteau was valuable to trade Amonte for.,

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from KMCI. Show KMCI's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Amonte and Matteau/Noonan aren't comparable in terms of what they brought to the table.  Amonte was a speed and skill perimeter guy with a good shot.  Matteau and Noonan scored goals from within 5ft of the crease or they didn't score.  The Rangers won because they got a lot of clutch goals within that range, and I doubt Amonte would have scored them.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    Amonte scored 416  Matt144 and Noonan116 Yeah I doubt with the ice time of these 2, he would have scored any. c'mon bb u know better than that.

    They also traded Gartner 5G 6A 11Pt 18gms for TOR for Anderson Gp 23  3G 3A 6Pts, gave up a lot of fire power yet won the cup go figure.  That year the fix did seem to be in.

     

    GOAT!!!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:



    BOSTON, MA - Boston Bruins General Manager Peter Chiarelli announced today that the club has acquired forward Daniel Paille from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for Boston’s natural third round pick in 2010 and a conditional fourth round pick in 2010

     



    Thanks, Chowda.  I don't know where I got the 2nd idea.  I've thought that for years. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team


    Agree with above that Iginla and Amonte were not given up on. They were traded as prospects for a contending teams needs at the time.

    I would put Rask in the same category as well. I think Ferguson wanted a proven goalie for a team he felt could compete that season.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    [QUOTE]

    BOSTON, MA - Boston Bruins General Manager Peter Chiarelli announced today that the club has acquired forward Daniel Paille from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for Boston’s natural third round pick in 2010 and a conditional fourth round pick in 2010

     

     

     



    Thanks, Chowda.  I don't know where I got the 2nd idea.  I've thought that for years. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I couldn't remember either way and just copied what NAS was saying, so any mistake I made is 100% his fault...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to KMCI's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    Amonte and Matteau/Noonan aren't comparable in terms of what they brought to the table.  Amonte was a speed and skill perimeter guy with a good shot.  Matteau and Noonan scored goals from within 5ft of the crease or they didn't score.  The Rangers won because they got a lot of clutch goals within that range, and I doubt Amonte would have scored them.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     



    Amonte scored 416  Matt144 and Noonan116 Yeah I doubt with the ice time of these 2, he would have scored any. c'mon bb u know better than that.

     

    They also traded Gartner 5G 6A 11Pt 18gms for TOR for Anderson Gp 23  3G 3A 6Pts, gave up a lot of fire power yet won the cup go figure.  That year the fix did seem to be in.

    GOAT!!!



    No, I don't know better than that.  Amonte had a terrible year that year.  His 17 goals in 79 combined games make it the worst year of his career except for his retirement tour years in Calgary.  Noonan and Matteau had a combined 8 goals in 12 games and 10 in the playoffs.  I have no reason to believe that Amonte would have "woken up" in NY to score every second game on a Cup run.  But more to my point, not all goals are created equally, and the Rangers, despite having an offense led by Messier Graves Zubov Leetch Larmer and Kovalev were built to score Keenan style.  Go hard to the net.  Win battles for the puck.  Bang them home.  I don't think Amonte, for all his gifts, would have been the difference maker Matteau was against Marty Brodeur.  Playoff goals weren't easy to come by at the beginnng of the dead puck era.

    Gartner was an aging sniper with speed and great shot who had never won bupkis.  Glenn Anderson was a former sniper with speed and a great shot whose best days were clearly behind him - but he came with 5 Cup rings and Messier believed in him.  So did Slats. End.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to kelvana33's comment:


    Agree with above that Iginla and Amonte were not given up on. They were traded as prospects for a contending teams needs at the time.

    I would put Rask in the same category as well. I think Ferguson wanted a proven goalie for a team he felt could compete that season.



    I think you're right, kel.  Two years prior Raycroft was coming off his Calder year which was followed by the lockout.  He got hurt in 05/06, the year the Leafs were 41-33-8, gave up 270 goals and missed the playoffs.  I'd imagine he saw Raycroft as being able to help shore up their GAA.  Rask was a prospect.  Highly-regarded but a prospect.

    The Leafs didn't make the playoffs with him in goal but to his credit, in his first year as a Leaf he went 37-25-9 with a GAA of 2.99.  I think he still holds the team's single season record for wins by a goalie. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    Not to mention Buffalo spent a 1st round pick on Paille and got a lower pick back even if it was a 2nd rounder. Boston certainly knew what to do with Daniel, turn him lose on Buffalo's PP during the 2010 playoffs. The Sabres PP was 21% during the season but went 0 for 11 in the 1st round that year.

    PC worked Buffalo especially if you think of Paille's performance in this years SCF.

    Who the heck is on the Sabres 3rd or 4th line right now ? Raffi Torres ?





     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    The Bruins ended up on the right side of many of these deals obtaining some of their best players - Neely, Buyck, Chara and Middleton.  They have had a knack - hopefully it continues.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to stevegm's comment:

    [QUOTE]
    I agree with everything except the summary.  I think we need to consider more than Cups.  One player doesn't win or lose them.  I don't think winning a cup in 77 would have made any difference for the Rangers, in those Esposito, and Hodge deals.  The Bruins won that one, because Park, Ratelle, and Middleton had a longer, more proficient body of work than Esposito, Vadnais, and Hodge.  Kaberle is an example going the other way.  The fact that the B's won the cup doesn't make this a great deal, it just glosses it over.

     

     

    "Whoever gets the best player wins".  That used to be a philosophy that many agreed with.  I think it still applies, except money has to be tied to it now days, which really convolutes things.  Makes it more interesting too though.

     



    According to this, you believe Calgary "won" the Iginla/Niuwendyk trade? 

     

    I think that Dallas winning the Cup was worth a lot more than fans watching Iginla score 40 goals and not win the Cup.

    If neither team wins a Cup with effects from a trade, then I agree it's a best player scenario.  What happens if Matteau isn't on that Rangers team?  Amonte was clearly the better player, but there isn't a Rangers fan on Earth that would trade 1994 for a couple of 100 point seasons.

    [/QUOTE]

    Weight for Tikkanen is another tricky one that helped NYR win in '94.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    How about Reggie Leach?  He was drafted by the Bruins third overall in the 1970 draft.  In 1970/71 he scored 2 goals and had a total of 6 points.  Mind you, he was a rookie on that record-setting powerhouse team of Esposito's 76 goals and 152 points, Orr's 139 points, Bucyk's 51 goals and over 100 points, Ken Hodge's 105 points and the club's 399 goals scored, 57-14-7-121 point regular season. 

    The Bruins traded him and some other players to the California Golden Seals in '72 for among others, Carol Vadnais.  He was a Seal from 1972 until '74.  In the 72/73 season he scored 23 goals then followed with 22.  After his trade to the Flyers in 1974/75 he exploded for 45 goals at age 25.  His 61 goal season one year later.  We could suggest he established himself as a scorer during the 23 goal, 1972/73 season when he was 23 by season's end.  His final goal total was 381, 285 assists for 666 points.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    Weight for Tikkanen is another tricky one that helped NYR win in '94.



    I agree, Dez.  You can look at the stats all day and say bad deal for NYR, but he was certainly a part of that Cup team, so how bad was it?  They didn't trade Weight because they thougth he stunk.  They traded him because that was the price of the piece they wanted.

    I hope Seguin thrives in Dallas.  While he was a playoff busterino, he did help beat that Tampa team and he was fun once in a while.  His greatest feat and value, of course, lies in taking Peverley with him, so Stanley can stop posting about it.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

    Weight for Tikkanen is another tricky one that helped NYR win in '94.

     

     



    I agree, Dez.  You can look at the stats all day and say bad deal for NYR, but he was certainly a part of that Cup team, so how bad was it?  They didn't trade Weight because they thougth he stunk.  They traded him because that was the price of the piece they wanted.

     

    I hope Seguin thrives in Dallas.  While he was a playoff busterino, he did help beat that Tampa team and he was fun once in a while.  His greatest feat and value, of course, lies in taking Peverley with him, so Stanley can stop posting about it.

    [/QUOTE]

    My buddy's a big NYR fan so we've discussed it at length. He wouldn't take back any of those deals because winning the Cup is too special to overlook.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

     

    How about Reggie Leach? 

    The Bruins traded him and some other players to the California Golden Seals in '72 for among others, Carol Vadnais. 

     

    Vadnais was at least involved in getting Nifty and Ratelle. Al Secord was traded for...Mike O'Connell.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    My buddy's a big NYR fan so we've discussed it at length. He wouldn't take back any of those deals because winning the Cup is too special to overlook.

     



    That's exactly how I will feel in 15 years when people talk about Wheeler and Stuart for Peverley.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: The NHL's All-Time Gave Up Too Soon Team

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to RichHillOntario's comment:

     

    How about Reggie Leach? 

    The Bruins traded him and some other players to the California Golden Seals in '72 for among others, Carol Vadnais. 

     

    Vadnais was at least involved in getting Nifty and Ratelle. Al Secord was traded for...Mike O'Connell.



    Nice one, San.  A lousy deal at Boston's end.  Especially with what he did in Chicago starting in 81/82 with 44 goals and 303 PIMs at age 25.

     
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