The Powerplay!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    The Powerplay!

    We haven't talked about this is a while.  Let's take a look at where teams finished during the regular season for powerplay percentage.

    There are 3 teams between 1-10 that are still playing.

    There are 3 teams between 11-20 that are still playing.

    There are 2 teams between 21-30 that are still playing.

    5 of 8 team still playing finished 15th or worse on the powerplay.

    7 teams between 21-30 did not qualify for the playoffs.

    4 team beween 1-10 did not qualify.

    3 teams beween 11-20 did not qualify.

     

    1.  WAS First round exit

    2.  PIT Still alive

    3.  PHI DNQ

    4.  ANA First round exit

    5.  Mtl  First round exit

    6.  FLA DNQ

    7.  SAN  Still alive

    8.  EDM  DNQ

    9.  CGY  DNQ

    10.  LAK  Still alive

    11.  NYI  First round exit

    12.  STL  First round exit

    13.  TBL  DNQ

    14.  TOR  First round exit

    15.  DET  Still alive

    16.  MIN  First round exit

    17.  NSH  DNQ

    18.  DAL  DNQ

    19.  CHI  Still alive

    20.  OTT Still alive

    21.  NJD  DNQ

    22.  VAN  First round exit

    23.  NYR  Still alive

    24.  COL  DNQ

    25.  PHX  DNQ

    26.  BOS Still alive

    27.  CAR  DNQ

    28.  CBJ  DNQ

    29.  BUF  DNQ

    30.  WPG  DNQ

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    Wow.

    Good work on that one. I wonder what the penalty kill looks like. If I had to guess, a little more significant.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    thanks for doing that research. I think what you're saying here is that having a lethal powerplay is a nice thing to have, but certainly isn't necessary. I fully agree. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rufus604. Show Rufus604's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    Never knew this stat.  Thanks for doing this.  Its no corsi, but still a nice stat.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    here's an interesting set of numbers from the playoffs. Here is the 5-on-5 goals for/goals against ratio.

    Sens - 1.6

    NYR - 1.45

    Bruins - 1.36

    Hawks - 1.33

    Kings - 1.30

    Pens - 1.29

    Sharks 1.10

    Ducks 1.09

    Red Wings - 1.07

    Blues - .78

    Isles -.78

    Canucks - .75

    Leafs - .71

    Caps - .64

    Wild - .54

    Habs - .46

     

    FAR stronger correlation between still being alive and having a high ratio for those numbers. 

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from MDsizzle. Show MDsizzle's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    I'm just happy to hear all this "horrible powerplay" talk and not have it being about the Bruins. And hopefully the nyr pp will help get our pk back in line.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to MDsizzle's comment:

    I'm just happy to hear all this "horrible powerplay" talk and not have it being about the Bruins. And hopefully the nyr pp will help get our pk back in line.




    I thought the same thing, MD.  When Milbury was lambasting Torts for it, all I could think was, "please don't mention the B's!"

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    here's an interesting set of numbers from the playoffs. Here is the 5-on-5 goals for/goals against ratio.



    The majority of the game is played 5x5.  You can bank on that.  You can't bank on powerplay time.  Great stat 1916.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    Just finished watching the Sens - Pens game and the trend continues, PPs do not make you win playoff games.   Not even that powerful PP from the Pens;  They had one to finish the game where Ottawa scored shorthanded , carried over in OT and in 2nd OT Pens get a PP but still don't finish the game.  Sens also got one and did nothing.

    Nice stats.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    here's an interesting set of numbers from the playoffs. Here is the 5-on-5 goals for/goals against ratio.

    Sens - 1.6

    NYR - 1.45

    Bruins - 1.36

    Hawks - 1.33

    Kings - 1.30

    Pens - 1.29

    Sharks 1.10

    Ducks 1.09

    Red Wings - 1.07

    Blues - .78

    Isles -.78

    Canucks - .75

    Leafs - .71

    Caps - .64

    Wild - .54

    Habs - .46

     

    FAR stronger correlation between still being alive and having a high ratio for those numbers. 

     




    Good stat to show what happens to team that relied on their PP in the regular season and what happened to them in the playoffs. 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    thanks for doing that research. I think what you're saying here is that having a lethal powerplay is a nice thing to have, but certainly isn't necessary. I fully agree. 




    A play on words bostonfan.  It's much more than a "nice thing to have'.  It's really "quite' important to have a decent PP.  Not necessarily so, to have "lethal" one.  Anything to do with the PP looking ahead, doesn't gurantee a win, but it adds always points to greater potential, all things being equal. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to stevegm's comment:



    A play on words bostonfan.  It's much more than a "nice thing to have'.  It's really "quite' important to have a decent PP.  Not necessarily so, to have "lethal" one.  Anything to do with the PP looking ahead, doesn't gurantee a win, but it adds always points to greater potential, all things being equal. 



    Did you see the stats above.  A good powerplay and winning a lot don't coincide.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    Nice stats everyone, just one thing does 6-5 goals count as powerplay goals?  

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    We haven't talked about this is a while.  Let's take a look at where teams finished during the regular season for powerplay percentage.

    There are 3 teams between 1-10 that are still playing.

    There are 3 teams between 11-20 that are still playing.

    There are 2 teams between 21-30 that are still playing.

    5 of 8 team still playing finished 15th or worse on the powerplay.

    7 teams between 21-30 did not qualify for the playoffs.

    4 team beween 1-10 did not qualify.

    3 teams beween 11-20 did not qualify.

     

    1.  WAS First round exit

    2.  PIT Still alive

    3.  PHI DNQ

    4.  ANA First round exit

    5.  Mtl  First round exit

    6.  FLA DNQ

    7.  SAN  Still alive

    8.  EDM  DNQ

    9.  CGY  DNQ

    10.  LAK  Still alive

    11.  NYI  First round exit

    12.  STL  First round exit

    13.  TBL  DNQ

    14.  TOR  First round exit

    15.  DET  Still alive

    16.  MIN  First round exit

    17.  NSH  DNQ

    18.  DAL  DNQ

    19.  CHI  Still alive

    20.  OTT Still alive

    21.  NJD  DNQ

    22.  VAN  First round exit

    23.  NYR  Still alive

    24.  COL  DNQ

    25.  PHX  DNQ

    26.  BOS Still alive

    27.  CAR  DNQ

    28.  CBJ  DNQ

    29.  BUF  DNQ

    30.  WPG  DNQ



    Nice little excercise, but if you think it means anything statistically, you're mistaken.  Not arguing your process, or the factuality of what you have above, only that the implied "meaning" of the results.  For arguments sajke, lets agree you have an even spread above.  Pretty much an equal number of teams still playing who have a good, fair, and bad pp percentage.  Based on that, it would appear the pp means nothing.  But that conclusion would get you kicked out of statistical relevance class.
    An opposite flawed example is a quick review of the TO Bruin series.  A great  PP got the Bruins a win in game 4(I think).  That's fact, backed up by statistic.  Saying though...if the B's lose that game, they lose the series, therefore the PP is the "be all, end all....is false.  It's incorrectly processing the relevance of stastistcal data.

    Just using the Bruins, as one example, one can review the last 57 games played this year and find several(around 6 or more would be huge) that were either won by the B's powerplay, or lost to the opposing PP(and no, that shouldn't be considered the pk).  

    Just like "playing well", a good PP improves the chance of winning.  There are many peripheral issues, like "when" those pp goals are scored which can alter things, but nothing changes the fundamental truth that a good pp does help the potential.  A team may have a horrible pp, but it will undoubtedly, "still" win them the odd game, and when the differece between making the playoffs after 82 games is rarely never more than 2 or 3 points, well, it means a lot.

    We got all crossed up in this with the Subban thing too, and where we went of the rails was in the statistics.  Statistically, some things may point to something, that moving forward, means squat.  That's where relevance kicks in.  Statistically, there may be some sort of correlation between great players, and the number of vowels in their name.  Relying on that information at the draft table though, even if proven statistically....would be a mistake.

    And there's no room for "those teams that depend on their PP' in this discussion.  Nobody does it.  Zero teams in the NHL that depend solely on the PP for offense.  That's like saying the B's "depend' on overtime", just because they've been pretty successful there lately. 

    A decent PP is pretty important.  Like every other facet of the game(good goaltending in the playoffs etc), there are times when it just isn't a difference maker.  Sport is unpredictable, so of course it is, but that doesn't change the fact that the pp has a pretty big influence on the game. 

       

     

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatHockeyGuy. Show ThatHockeyGuy's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to islamorada's comment:

    Nice stats everyone, just one thing does 6-5 goals count as powerplay goals?  



    No, they don't.

    Since both teams both have the same amount of players on the ice (6 skaters vs. 5 skaters and 1 goalie), there is no man advantage.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatHockeyGuy. Show ThatHockeyGuy's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    A good powerplay doesn't hurt a team. It is actually quite beneficial to be able to score on the powerplay. It's just that some teams (*cough* Montreal *cough*) rely too much on the powerplay and thus aren't equipped for the playoffs during which 5 v 5 is the most important aspect of the game.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    here's an interesting set of numbers from the playoffs. Here is the 5-on-5 goals for/goals against ratio.

    Sens - 1.6

    NYR - 1.45

    Bruins - 1.36

    Hawks - 1.33

    Kings - 1.30

    Pens - 1.29

    Sharks 1.10

    Ducks 1.09

    Red Wings - 1.07

    Blues - .78

    Isles -.78

    Canucks - .75

    Leafs - .71

    Caps - .64

    Wild - .54

    Habs - .46

     

    FAR stronger correlation between still being alive and having a high ratio for those numbers. 

     




    Again, we have a problem, "statistically".  First of all, the sample size is fairly small.  Second, a team that doesn't score much, will also be low on this list, giving us a bit of a slanted look.  For example, Toronto scored fewer goals overall, in their 13 playoff life than Boston did, so their 5 on 5 would normally be lower anyway.  Third, you have both Detroit and Ottawa on your list hi-iting the merit of 5 on 5 goal scoring.  If we look at this and assume it means something, we see that Ottawa has more than 1/2 goal per game  than Detroit.  That is a "huge" difference, and we shouldn't be lumping things that are hugely different, as comparables.  However, if we do....we can see despite the stats, Ottawa isn't doing any better than Detroit...statistically....they're doing worse, (Detroit is tied, Ottawa is behind)so the point goes out the window.

    We should all be aware of the importance of 5 on 5, the pk, the pp, tight defense, goaltending, turnovers, and many other intracacies of the game.  Attempting to minimize/maximise the potential of any of them isn't productive conversation, as they'll always, from time to time have a huge impact on a given game.

    Generally speaking, the exclusion of certain "other" stats can really distort the picture.  If you're implying that the ability to score 5 on 5, is hugely important, you're right.  If that point is meant to minimize the potential of the PP...it's incorrect.  Both are important, both will win games, and both will lose them for you.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    How will a bad powerplay lose a game for a team?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    How will a bad powerplay lose a game for a team?




    Didn't say, or mean that.  If I wasn't clear enough, my apologies.  A good PP will sometimes win you a game.  The oppositions  PP will sometimes lose you one. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    Shorthanded goal against?

     

    Really can't type S H?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

     

    here's an interesting set of numbers from the playoffs. Here is the 5-on-5 goals for/goals against ratio.

     



    The majority of the game is played 5x5.  You can bank on that.  You can't bank on powerplay time.  Great stat 1916.

     




    Virtually every single game, teams have a power play.  It's  extremely rare, for a team to go an entire game without one.  Therefore, the above statement is incorrect.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    The only series where the PP was evident is in the SJ - LA series. both team won games because they had 5 on 3 late and in OT.   5 on 3 !!!  this type of PP should have a stat on it's own.

    stevegm,  sure PPs can win you a game, but so does a shorthanded goal (see Ottawa) or any goal for that matter.   In the regular season I find it's important to move up in the standings, refs will call penalties at will but the playoffs , rarely is a win attached to a PP.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    My point is it is essentially a power play goal.  The stats would then change if included.  I tend to agree with the NAS stat conclusion on the powerplay effectiveness this year, yet it is not conclusive to say the Bs are winning 5 on 5.   If and only if the Bs play Pittsburgh in the ECF, the Bs powerplay will have to be more effective.  

     

    In response to ThatHockeyGuy's comment:

    In response to islamorada's comment:

     

    Nice stats everyone, just one thing does 6-5 goals count as powerplay goals?  

     



    No, they don't.

     

    Since both teams both have the same amount of players on the ice (6 skaters vs. 5 skaters and 1 goalie), there is no man advantage.




     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    The Bruins can make it without a funcationing PP. The Bruins proved that in it's Cup year.

    It can't survive without a great PK though. Which we have. Then and now.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: The Powerplay!

    A powerplay isn't only about scoring. Many more powerplays don't yield goals than do.

    In a game of momentum, a powerplay is meant to help change, reverse or build momentum.

     

    a 'bad' powerplay does neither; scores nor inspires

     
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