The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Klaas' comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Hes proven nothing over a long period of time.  

     


    I have to agree with Shupe. Also Bruins goalie stats benefit big time from the Claude Julien defense first system by players playing infront of them.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He's got the best numbers in NHL history for any goalie with over 100 starts. You guys can dismiss that if you'd like but the rest of the hockey world thinks that it's significant. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Shupe I personally think giving him $7M is too much but I think the market will bear that. I think $6M per year would be fair.  I agree it is risky like many long term deals are.  As far as comparison yes Rinne has played more full seasons and has won a Vezina but he has been average when it counts in the playoffs. Rask has great stats when he plays and helped take his team to within 2 games of a Stanley Cup.  The series he had against the Penguins was amazing. On the flipside when the Bruins game dropped a bit in 2010 and in the Finals this year, to be honest I felt he was only average.  I don't blame him for either of those lost series as the team in front of him left him on his own a fair bit.  On the other hand in the Finals other than the first period of game 2,  I didn't feel he was exceptional.  Crawford wasn't consistently exceptional either so looking at everything in balance Rask deserves a big pay day.  I hope it is closer to $6M but the Bruins may have to look at $7M.  What other options do they have? You need a strong goalie to have a chance to win the Cup and he definitely fits that bill.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    $38 million over 6 years ($6.33 MM AAV).  Tuukka gets the longer term, but lower AAV. 

    Since he is restricted, he will not set the market for goalies.

    He will not make more than Chara.

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruinfaninnewjersey. Show Bruinfaninnewjersey's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Klaas' comment:

    Jimmy Howard's number ... $5.29M per season over 6 years.




    I think Jimmy Howard is a good comparison... but I bet it will be more like

    6yrs/$37.5M  -  Annual Cap Hit: $6.25M

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Tuukka will sign for 5 yrs at 7m per....

    when his contract runs out and Tuukka proves to some that aren't on board yet that he's really a #1, he'll be primed for another big payday....

     

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    5 years/30 mill

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from stinkman. Show stinkman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to days-of-Orr's comment:

    Tuukka will sign for 5 yrs at 7m per....

    when his contract runs out and Tuukka proves to some that aren't on board yet that he's really a #1, he'll be primed for another big payday....

     

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     

    .  I think Tuukka will sign for 6 yrs @ in between 7 m or 7.2 m in that range. I will go for  the 7.2 figure.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to stinkman's comment:

    In response to days-of-Orr's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Tuukka will sign for 5 yrs at 7m per....

    when his contract runs out and Tuukka proves to some that aren't on board yet that he's really a #1, he'll be primed for another big payday....

     

    “People think common sense is common - but it's not.”


     

    .  I think Tuukka will sign for 6 yrs @ in between 7 m or 7.2 m in that range. I will go for  the 7.2 figure.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    you just gave Shupe a heart attack....

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?


       I'm thinking 5/6 years at approx. <6.5M.

    However, letting Khudobin leave and signing Johnson, in order to save a mere 200,000 in cap space for the back-up position, could be an indication that Rask may be getting a HUGE contract.

    I fully expected Svedberg to be the back-up, after his stellar year in Providence, but I guess his 950,000 cap hit has become too high to absorb. I have to wonder why, since Rask signing in the 6.5M neighbourhood, and Svedberg at 950,000, would leave Boston at 59.88M with just the 3rd RW a question mark.

    It may mean huge money for Rask, and they expect a prospect to graduate to the big club, or Chiarelli has a specific NHL RW player with an excisting contract, that he wants and has to squeeze all available cap space, in order to fit him in.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:


     

    crawford cant wait for this.  He must be giddy with excitement.  Crawfords resume drowns rasks.  Crawford will be the first 10m a year goalie at this rate.  

    ----

    66-45 128 gs, starter for one year bc TT stunk, then rides the pines for 2 yrs.  never played one full season.  Not one dez.  Had he strung 2-3 in a row.  But not one.  He lost his job after his good year.  What does that say?  

    Hes proven nothing over a long period of time.  

    The only way you can strengthen your argument is if you tell me he deserves to be on the cover of GQ.   



    Check the evidence locker, 'cause shupe's on something funny.

    Crawford's been a starter for two and a half years.  He's two years and a half years older than Rask, so at the same age, he'd proven a heck of a lot less than Rask.  His career NHL stats are .913 and 2.40.  He had never won a playoff series before this year.  So the whole comparison to Crawford is a little dicey.  Add that Crawford tops out at 57 games as a starter.  Rask started 45 in 2010, his first shot at being the #1.  If that 12 games makes all the difference, then I'd say your argument is weak.  And all Rask did with that opportunity is back teh absolute worst offensive team in the NHL to a playoff berth with a .931/1.97 stat line.  Then outduel Ryan Miller.  Did that run end badly?  Sure, and there was more than enough blame to go around on a team that scored 1 goal in two games after Krejci went down and fell asleep with relief in game 7.  But do they even make the playoffs if Rask isn't historically good that year?  Probably not. 

    He lost his job the next year...to the Vezina trophy winner.  Do you remember how that went down?  Thomas had something like a 0.91 GAA after his first ten games.  He was unconscious.  Rask didn't give it away - Thomas grabbed it like a fat kid grabs the last twinkie.

    Lastly, you should know that someone has been using your account for a while now. At least, I'm assuming this is the case, because you must have been in cryogenic suspension since the '80s to think that players still need to prove their mettle "over a long period of time" before they get paid.  Right now, Rask is playing like one of the top five goalies in the NHL.  He is one year away from being an unrestricted free agent.  He's going to get paid, and paid so that over the longer term of the deal he will still be getting comparable money to the Rinnes and Lundqvists and Quicks (Quick's deal is insane - he should fire his agent).  And frankly, he's been the good soldier for a long time now - on almost any other team, he would have this history you want him to have to back up the deal.

    One last thought.  You said you'd trade Seguin for Drouin.  So you obviously believe in paying for potential. 

     

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Lastly, you should know that someone has been using your account for a while now. At least, I'm assuming this is the case, because you must have been in cryogenic suspension since the '80s to think that players still need to prove their mettle "over a long period of time" before they get paid. 






    Agreed. 80's type thinking.

    NHL GM's now give out contracts based on projections and before they hit free agency. 

    Nowadays, players don't have to prove themselves over a long period of time to get the big money and................."Chips" is not the most popular show on tv.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Careful, Chowdah - that one might hit a nerve...that's shupe on the right.

     

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Careful, Chowdah - that one might hit a nerve...that's shupe on the right.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    In the immortal words of a famous BDC poster............hey, I like having fun.... and I am........at someone else's expense.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from KMCI. Show KMCI's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Shupe is more of a Bumper Morgan type he doesn't like bikes.

    But I side with him, no way is Rask worth the 7M tagline.

    Rask is 26, so he gets 9yr deal to bring him to 35.

    4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, 6.5, 5.5 =54/9=6m

    or

    4.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5, 7=34.5/6=5.75 Which is more along where he should be

    Starting him at 7M is ludicrous.

     

     

    GOAT!!!

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    here's a question: do we think any other team has officially given him an offer yet?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Book and chowda.  Good post.  I cant talk about him but will chime in

    why does everyone think PK not getting paid was so great as a rfa?   Dude rips it up and wins norris.  Dez is consistant that players need to prove it over a long period of time.  Its not the 80s this year.  did either of you chime in on him?   Or on letang.  Both nominated for norris.  Both will be on team canada.   Both elite dmen in the league.  Is Letang smoking something?   

    I can list numerous goalie contracts that went south after a short period.  Look at vancouver.  They had to deal the younger goalie and keep the old big contract.  Steve Mason, Dipietro is the poster boy.  How about Fleury.  How about Bryz.   How about Price.   

    This 2000 thinking is just great business isnt it.   Mason traded after numerous down yrs after signing the contract, Fleury is a goat in Pitt, Bryz bought out, Dipietro bought out, Price forgot how to save the puck.  Smith and Bob just signed big tickets and are the next in line.  But who cares about columbus and coyote ugly.  

    As for crawford he has as many playoff series wins and out played someone when it mattered most, just posted crazy stat line of 19-5 .926, 1.94.   Stanley Cup after conn like performance.  

    33-18 in his first year as a rookie.  30-17 in a down year.  Then the a/n stat line.  Crawford counting this year has 3 yrs.  57 games twice and then 30 this year.  83-43 W/L.   3rd season wins a cup.  

    Book werent you 100 percent against trading Seguin?   i have watched a lot of Drouin, had no issue dealing Seguin bc well his contract isnt great.  The reason i was ok with that is bc he would be on the top 6, make peanuts and is an extremely intelligent player who is gonna have a great nhl career.  Thought hed be perfect for the Bruins stinky PP.   Yes i make that deal bc of cap freedom, adding a player who's going to be a franchise type player, immediately plays in the top 6 and im a big fan of his(that counts). 

    Good Chips carve.  I enjoy a good carve.  I gotta get a pair of those shades.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    here's a question: do we think any other team has officially given him an offer yet?



    No bc it would have been announced.   Check around the league.  Not many have the cap space or need for a number one.  Many would love him.   Simply no market.   My hope is the feet dragging on pc part is to ensure the serious threats have no way of signing him.   Give PC more hand.  

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Let's remember the new CBA provisions - can't have more than a 5% year to year variance, so he might get $6.5M, $6.75M, $7M (x3), $6.75M, $6.5M year to year on a 7 year deal.  It won't be from 4 to 7 and back, though.

    Plus, there's no reason for a variance unless it's to give Tuukka a big cash infusion in years one and two so he can buy a bigger house and nicer suits.  He'll be on the back end of his prime when any deal ends (max 8 years).  There's no reason not to just say here: 7/8=56.  Sign it.  Or, as they say in Finnish, Siiggn Iitt.

    Before the run to the finals, I thought they'd get him for sub-CareyPrice numbers.  Something like the difference between Price and Quick.  Now, I'm resigned to 7 and will refrain from panicking if it's $7.25 or something.  To borrow a line from NAS, there will inevitably be those who come on here and say how that's way too much, stupid PC, why did we have a lockout...just like every contract ever.

    Except the $4.25M/yr for Eriksson.  That's a sweetheart of a deal.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    Good Chips carve.  I enjoy a good carve.  I gotta get a pair of those shades.  




    And you know that's where it's coming from - we know you appreciate it even if you're the target.

    I was dead-set against trading Seguin, partly because when the rumours came up, it sounded like they wanted to draft another prospect who the Bruins will take at least a year to ease into the system as they always do - and they might send him back to the Mooseheads the way Florida did Huberdeau.  By the time he was reaching his potential to contribute to a Cup run, Chara would be close to 40.  I suspect, though I'm not certain, that Segin will be reaching his peak by then and be just as dangerous if not more so.  Trading Seguin for a pick was moving backwards. Trading him for a guy whose cap hit is basically $500K over what Drouin's would be if he made the roster?  Who could be a 30g/yr guy for the next 3 years and is a perfect replacement on the Bergeron line?  And adding both cap room and three prospects who could be long-term contributors?  I still hate giving up on TS, but I can live with that because I can see how it might make the team better.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Good Chips carve.  I enjoy a good carve.  I gotta get a pair of those shades.  

     




    And you know that's where it's coming from - we know you appreciate it even if you're the target.

     

    I was dead-set against trading Seguin, partly because when the rumours came up, it sounded like they wanted to draft another prospect who the Bruins will take at least a year to ease into the system as they always do - and they might send him back to the Mooseheads the way Florida did Huberdeau.  By the time he was reaching his potential to contribute to a Cup run, Chara would be close to 40.  I suspect, though I'm not certain, that Segin will be reaching his peak by then and be just as dangerous if not more so.  Trading Seguin for a pick was moving backwards. Trading him for a guy whose cap hit is basically $500K over what Drouin's would be if he made the roster?  Who could be a 30g/yr guy for the next 3 years and is a perfect replacement on the Bergeron line?  And adding both cap room and three prospects who could be long-term contributors?  I still hate giving up on TS, but I can live with that because I can see how it might make the team better.

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah i dont have issue with the trade at all.  I know some hate it.  But they need to peek at loui stat sheet.  Even his one playoff run to know this guy is legit.  He isnt a big bad bruin but he is gonna be good.  

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    FFFFUUUUUUUUU......

    shupe, I've tried twice to send a well-supported response to your post on Crawford and contracts and twice had it lost to the ether, so forgive me if this isn't as developed.

    There are only three goalie contracts that are truly comparable to the deal Rask is rumoured to be signing.  DiPietro, Bryz, and Luongo.  DiPietro's deal came first.  It was the model for the thinking on how to manage in a Cap world.  It was a disaster because it was DiPietro and Wang, but I wouldn't use it as a comparable.  All Flyer goalie decisions are sui generis and not for use as comparables.  Luongo's current deal is actually a pay cut both in terms of his cap hit and his year to year salary from his previous deal - a 4 year job.  It's actually the result of him having proven himself over a long period of time.  New CBA, new world, and security at the goaltending position for 7 or 8 years, buying basically all of Rask's UFA prime, isn't really the same as any of these previous deals.

    Crawford's first year as starter, he played for the Cup champions.  And he didn't win a playoff series until this year.  They doubted him enough that Emery was brought in to challenge for the top spot.  He had never hinted at numbers like this at any point in his career to date - so he's proved nothing "over the long term".  He was seen as the Hawks' potential Achilles heel and he answered that bell for the first time in the playoffs.  Also, it isn't baseball.  When two teams play a series of 1 goal games and the goalies finish the playoffs within .05 of one another in GAA and .005 in terms of s%, one did not "outduel" the other, especially when each of them led in one of those two categories.

    Lastly, PK.  People are always happy when a guy who holds out is broken and forced to sign for less than he thinks he deserves, especially when he's perceived as cocky and showy rather than steady and reliable.  But the comparison to Rask doesn't work.  This was PK seeking to go directly from EL to elite contract without a bridge deal.  Bergevin held the line unlike so many GMs, including Chiarelli with Seguin.  Bridge deals used to be the norm, but that changed very recently.  Tuukka has signed two bridge deals including a ridiculously team friendly one after positing a sub-2.00 GAA in his first turn as the starter - $1.25M cap hit!  Then he did it again when Thomas's abrupt departure had Chiarelli doing his Ving Rhames in Pulp Fiction (you know the scene I mean).  He agreed to take a B level starter's deal to prove he was more than that - an agreement that both he and Chiarelli seem to think he fulfilled.

    Letang turned down $7M over 8 years.  He is not now, nor will he ever be, that good.  Playing with Crosby and Malkin inflates his offensive numbers, and Marchand uses him for squaredancing practice.  Shero got fleeced.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from days-of-Orr. Show days-of-Orr's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Let's remember the new CBA provisions - can't have more than a 5% year to year variance, so he might get $6.5M, $6.75M, $7M (x3), $6.75M, $6.5M year to year on a 7 year deal.  It won't be from 4 to 7 and back, though.

    Plus, there's no reason for a variance unless it's to give Tuukka a big cash infusion in years one and two so he can buy a bigger house and nicer suits.  He'll be on the back end of his prime when any deal ends (max 8 years).  There's no reason not to just say here: 7/8=56.  Sign it.  Or, as they say in Finnish, Siiggn Iitt.

    Before the run to the finals, I thought they'd get him for sub-CareyPrice numbers.  Something like the difference between Price and Quick.  Now, I'm resigned to 7 and will refrain from panicking if it's $7.25 or something.  To borrow a line from NAS, there will inevitably be those who come on here and say how that's way too much, stupid PC, why did we have a lockout...just like every contract ever.

    Except the $4.25M/yr for Eriksson.  That's a sweetheart of a deal.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!




    Tuukka, siiggn iitt already....  Shupe can't take the suspense any longer....

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    here's a question: do we think any other team has officially given him an offer yet?

     



    No bc it would have been announced.   Check around the league.  Not many have the cap space or need for a number one.  Many would love him.   Simply no market.   My hope is the feet dragging on pc part is to ensure the serious threats have no way of signing him.   Give PC more hand.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    would we? if some agent called zito and said "hey, how close are you with the bruins? we're prepared to offer you this contract if you want to explore that route." i don't think we would necessarily hear about it. you're right that there aren't too many teams with a need and the cap space, which is why i think this can get done for 6 million

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?


    "God I love the Bruins."

     


    24 million for 4 yrs. but most important just f$@%ing sign him.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).

     

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