The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to biggskye's comment:


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).



    Clowe was a UFA, I think GMs give too much to RFAs normally. They don't use the leverage that the CBA gives them. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    In response to biggskye's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).

     



    Clowe was a UFA, I think GMs give too much to RFAs normally. They don't use the leverage that the CBA gives them. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe Rask could be UFA after this season so it's important to buy up a bunch of those years now.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to biggskye's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).

     

     



    Clowe was a UFA, I think GMs give too much to RFAs normally. They don't use the leverage that the CBA gives them. 

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe Rask could be UFA after this season so it's important to buy up a bunch of those years now.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Im kinda agreeing so this doesnt alter my agreement.  If we are giving in and buying up the rfa year and extended.  Shouldnt the one rfa meaning next year be a little more towards the team.  thats my major gripe.   anyway.  Im looking fwd to it getting signed.   

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to biggskye's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).

     

     

     



    Clowe was a UFA, I think GMs give too much to RFAs normally. They don't use the leverage that the CBA gives them. 

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe Rask could be UFA after this season so it's important to buy up a bunch of those years now.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Im kinda agreeing so this doesnt alter my agreement.  If we are giving in and buying up the rfa year and extended.  Shouldnt the one rfa meaning next year be a little more towards the team.  thats my major gripe.   anyway.  Im looking fwd to it getting signed.   

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I know they still hold the rights to take it to arbitration but I would hope it never comes to that. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to biggskye's comment:

     

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

     


       I know it's apples and oranges, but it is pretty hard to argue against Rask being worth 6M+, when a 3rd liner such as Clowe, gets signed for almost 5M.

    However, I am against long-term contracts for goaltenders. There is such a limited market, it can be very difficult to move the contract, if a younger, cheaper option becomes available (see Vancouver).

     

     

     

     



    Clowe was a UFA, I think GMs give too much to RFAs normally. They don't use the leverage that the CBA gives them. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I believe Rask could be UFA after this season so it's important to buy up a bunch of those years now.

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Im kinda agreeing so this doesnt alter my agreement.  If we are giving in and buying up the rfa year and extended.  Shouldnt the one rfa meaning next year be a little more towards the team.  thats my major gripe.   anyway.  Im looking fwd to it getting signed.   

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I know they still hold the rights to take it to arbitration but I would hope it never comes to that. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What do you think an arbitrator gives him.  

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    $20M





     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    No idea but it would be a one year deal which would take him to UFA (I think). He's not just a typical RFA situation. Lots of things to consider when coming up with a number. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    Thanks for the clarification Book. I agree that arbitration would be a poor move to make. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!



    I think the other team would be paying that ticket.  He got 3.5 m this year did he not?   Boy i wish i could get a team friendly deal like that.   Lots of players take it to arbitration.  was he supposed to get 8m starting 20 gms the previous 2 yrs.  Tow away.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    FFFFUUUUUUUUU......



    This is what it looks like when Book types a book and it gets lost. 

    So damn funny.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?


    I hate you.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Has anyone won the Shupestakes yet?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

    I think the other team would be paying that ticket.  He got 3.5 m this year did he not?   Boy i wish i could get a team friendly deal like that.   Lots of players take it to arbitration.  was he supposed to get 8m starting 20 gms the previous 2 yrs.  Tow away.  

     



    What he could have done is solict RFA offers and walked to the highest bidder or force the Bruins to match.  Given the idiocy we routinely see in UFA manouevers, do you doubt a 25yr old with very good stats, a long-standing rep as one of the best goaltending prospects in the world, three seasons and nearly 100 games of experience wouldn't have received a better offer?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

    I think the other team would be paying that ticket.  He got 3.5 m this year did he not?   Boy i wish i could get a team friendly deal like that.   Lots of players take it to arbitration.  was he supposed to get 8m starting 20 gms the previous 2 yrs.  Tow away.  

     

     



    What he could have done is solict RFA offers and walked to the highest bidder or force the Bruins to match.  Given the idiocy we routinely see in UFA manouevers, do you doubt a 25yr old with very good stats, a long-standing rep as one of the best goaltending prospects in the world, three seasons and nearly 100 games of experience wouldn't have received a better offer?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Since you asked a question i will respond.  What team Book?   Tell me what team has the room via cap, room via no starters, has what rask wants in terms of location, is willing to part with 3? 1st round picks.   Do any contenders have this ability?   Do any of the lottery teams have what rask wants other then a huge deal.   I think it would be bad on the bruins to let an offer sheet come in but i think its insane if we just write a blank check.   I look at what shea did in nashville, its his right, but that cant be a very friendly relationship.

    Yes i get hes a highly regarded goalie which is based on a small serving.  But to me signing goalies to large deals never pan out and the buyouts and trades are my proof. 

    dez, san, nas, book-  please give me one team.  And then explain the rationale.  I simply dont see a match out there.  The one i keep thinking is the nyi, they have the cap but nabby just resigned with them.  

    Crawford, Quick, TT, Niemi, Fleury, Osgood, Giggy, Ward, Bulin

    without checking cap geek crawford, quick, niemi, fleury, osgood, giggy, ward were not making franchise type money.   Giving rask franchise player, top money for a goalie and highest money on the bruins to me is stupid.  Its easily the hardest position to get consistent play and without some kind of injury.   If its large money i hope  its the shortest deal possible.  If its 6-7 yrs i will cringe more then if its over 7m+.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    the longer this drags on the lower the number will be i think. If the bruins had offered 7/49 the contract would have been signed two weeks ago. i'm starting to think 5/30-32.5 is the high end. 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

    I think the other team would be paying that ticket.  He got 3.5 m this year did he not?   Boy i wish i could get a team friendly deal like that.   Lots of players take it to arbitration.  was he supposed to get 8m starting 20 gms the previous 2 yrs.  Tow away.  

     

     

     



    What he could have done is solict RFA offers and walked to the highest bidder or force the Bruins to match.  Given the idiocy we routinely see in UFA manouevers, do you doubt a 25yr old with very good stats, a long-standing rep as one of the best goaltending prospects in the world, three seasons and nearly 100 games of experience wouldn't have received a better offer?

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Since you asked a question i will respond.  What team Book?   Tell me what team has the room via cap, room via no starters, has what rask wants in terms of location, is willing to part with 3? 1st round picks.   Do any contenders have this ability?   Do any of the lottery teams have what rask wants other then a huge deal.   I think it would be bad on the bruins to let an offer sheet come in but i think its insane if we just write a blank check.   I look at what shea did in nashville, its his right, but that cant be a very friendly relationship.

     

    Yes i get hes a highly regarded goalie which is based on a small serving.  But to me signing goalies to large deals never pan out and the buyouts and trades are my proof. 

    dez, san, nas, book-  please give me one team.  And then explain the rationale.  I simply dont see a match out there.  The one i keep thinking is the nyi, they have the cap but nabby just resigned with them.  

    Crawford, Quick, TT, Niemi, Fleury, Osgood, Giggy, Ward, Bulin

    without checking cap geek crawford, quick, niemi, fleury, osgood, giggy, ward were not making franchise type money.   Giving rask franchise player, top money for a goalie and highest money on the bruins to me is stupid.  Its easily the hardest position to get consistent play and without some kind of injury.   If its large money i hope  its the shortest deal possible.  If its 6-7 yrs i will cringe more then if its over 7m+.  

    [/QUOTE]

    He's talking about last year Shupe. I won't even bother listing the teams that would've offered a contract higher than the 3.5 per he took because the list is many. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    In response to shuperman's comment:

     

     

    [QUOTE]

     

     

     

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

     


    Bruins could opt for two in arbitration if the arbitrator came back at $5.5M, but you'd be spending part of that savings on a plane ticket for Rask in two years when he leaves after basically towing the line and agreeing to team friendly deals all along to get to this point.

     

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     

    I think the other team would be paying that ticket.  He got 3.5 m this year did he not?   Boy i wish i could get a team friendly deal like that.   Lots of players take it to arbitration.  was he supposed to get 8m starting 20 gms the previous 2 yrs.  Tow away.  

     

     

     

     



    What he could have done is solict RFA offers and walked to the highest bidder or force the Bruins to match.  Given the idiocy we routinely see in UFA manouevers, do you doubt a 25yr old with very good stats, a long-standing rep as one of the best goaltending prospects in the world, three seasons and nearly 100 games of experience wouldn't have received a better offer?

     

     

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Since you asked a question i will respond.  What team Book?   Tell me what team has the room via cap, room via no starters, has what rask wants in terms of location, is willing to part with 3? 1st round picks.   Do any contenders have this ability?   Do any of the lottery teams have what rask wants other then a huge deal.   I think it would be bad on the bruins to let an offer sheet come in but i think its insane if we just write a blank check.   I look at what shea did in nashville, its his right, but that cant be a very friendly relationship.

     

     

    Yes i get hes a highly regarded goalie which is based on a small serving.  But to me signing goalies to large deals never pan out and the buyouts and trades are my proof. 

    dez, san, nas, book-  please give me one team.  And then explain the rationale.  I simply dont see a match out there.  The one i keep thinking is the nyi, they have the cap but nabby just resigned with them.  

    Crawford, Quick, TT, Niemi, Fleury, Osgood, Giggy, Ward, Bulin

    without checking cap geek crawford, quick, niemi, fleury, osgood, giggy, ward were not making franchise type money.   Giving rask franchise player, top money for a goalie and highest money on the bruins to me is stupid.  Its easily the hardest position to get consistent play and without some kind of injury.   If its large money i hope  its the shortest deal possible.  If its 6-7 yrs i will cringe more then if its over 7m+.  

     

    [/QUOTE]

    He's talking about last year Shupe. I won't even bother listing the teams that would've offered a contract higher than the 3.5 per he took because the list is many. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What about right now?   

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    I guess we will see this week won't we? He's not a typical RFA. I can't stress that enough. PC is trying to arrange a deal that buys up a bunch of UFA years. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    I guess we will see this week won't we? He's not a typical RFA. I can't stress that enough. PC is trying to arrange a deal that buys up a bunch of UFA years. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     



    There are lots of elite elite rfas every year.   Peterangelo for starters.  Shea last time Around.  I dont think the supply and demand is as high a goalie when most teams have theirs locked up.  

    PC has done a great job.  Im sure he will continue the same.  The more i digest the seguin deal which i pretty much did immediately the more i like it.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    shupe, my question was about last year, when Rask signed for $3.5M for one year.  For context, Ward signed a 6yr deal in 2010 for a $6.3M hit.  Quick signed his 10 year extension with a $5.8M hit at the time Rask was on the market as an RFA.  Fleury's hit on a 7yr deal signed in 2008 under a much lower cap is $5M.  Giguere hasn't been a starter for years, but his last deal as a starter was 4 years for a $6M cap hit.  Khabibulin had a 4 year deal for a $6.75M cap hit before his career went south and he had to battle DUIs, injuries, and guys like Dubnyk just to keep a job.  Crawford had done nothing and was closer to being in danger of losing the starting job than winning a Cup.  Really?  Chris Osgood?  Into the Vault, Sherman!  You're wrong on almost all of these comparables, with Niemi the only one who fits the point you're trying to make.

    Carey Price was signing a 6/$6.5M deal at the time.  Ryan Miller 5/$6.25.  Bryz 9/$5.66.  Jonas Hiller was even making $4.5.  Corey Schneider got $4M to back up Luongo.  Retread Lehtonen's deal was paying him $50K more than Rask would make to be the starter for the Bruins.  There were plenty of reasons for an arbitrator to award Rask more than he accepted. 

    Maybe this got lost in one of my novels, but you keep making the point that long term goalie deals never work (sorry Bullwinkle).  That's just not true.  There haven't been many deals longer than 5 years for big money - use DiPietro's $4.5 as the floor.  DiPietro, Bryz, Luongo (what the Isles and Flyers do is always suspect, and Luongo's deal represents a pay cut and back dive).  Quick is a recent addition: so far, so good. Ditto with Rinne's deal.  Lundqvist has been worth every dollar.  Kiprusoff was for four of the six.  Brodeur. 

    Last, the question on who could have made the move. The Avalanche got one year of mediocre goaltending from Varlamov and were willing to pay a 1st for him based on very little.  The Jets could have decided Pavelec was too much of a risk, or, given how much Cap space they have, they could have opted to go with Rask and trade Pavelec.  Panthers, Oilers, Lightning - especially the T-Bags.  They might be a playoff team this year if they had a goalie.

    This year, there are fewer options, and maybe PC is chiselling the number down on a long term deal a bit. 

    Look, I agree that you take a risk on a long-term deal, and making Rask the highest paid goalie in the league doesn't appeal to me, though he should be in the top tier.  But I also look at the struggles the bulk of the league have in finding a goalie who can win, and I would rather have to find a way to deal with Rask if he injures himself or starts hitting the buffet with Byfugy rather than have to find a goalie who can play as well as Rask has every year he's been in Boston.

     

    Are you not entertained?!?!

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    I guess we will see this week won't we? He's not a typical RFA. I can't stress that enough. PC is trying to arrange a deal that buys up a bunch of UFA years. 


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     



    There are lots of elite elite rfas every year.   Peterangelo for starters.  Shea last time Around.  I dont think the supply and demand is as high a goalie when most teams have theirs locked up.  

     

    PC has done a great job.  Im sure he will continue the same.  The more i digest the seguin deal which i pretty much did immediately the more i like it.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah and Rask is going to get what he gets regardless of how much we all beat it to death. I trust PC to continue doing a good job. I've always liked Eriksson. Thrilled that he's a Bruin now. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    In response to bostonfan191646's comment:

    the longer this drags on the lower the number will be i think. If the bruins had offered 7/49 the contract would have been signed two weeks ago. i'm starting to think 5/30-32.5 is the high end. 




    Is there any basis for this?

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

     

    the longer this drags on the lower the number will be i think. If the bruins had offered 7/49 the contract would have been signed two weeks ago. i'm starting to think 5/30-32.5 is the high end. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Is there any basis for this?

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Is there ever any from this poster? I think he's one of the one's that Jim Carrey learned his famous Pet Detective butt cheek move. 

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: The Shup sweepstakes: What will Tuukka's average cap hit be ?

    Just read a tweet that will give Shupe a heart attack. It claims that Rask will get near 60 million for 8 years and that it just needs to be finalized with the league.


    "wow,check out all of the losers in here......"

    -Gerry Dee
     

     

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