They Played Like Fools

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Don-Bruino. Show Don-Bruino's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    Toronto radio is having a ball with Lucic. They're portraying him as a crybaby bully.


    Lots of sound bites of crying babies.


    It's OK that Looch is upset, but his timing is off. He should have gotten upset, at his teammates, last week.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SylvesterMexicano. Show SylvesterMexicano's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to marco0863's comment:


    What are you blabbing about marco? I don't relish, I ketchup and mustard.


    The pres trophy was for you! 



    No don certainly not for me. .. accept it you ovetinflated this teamjust like Loui was inflatef on the ice and on this board.


    No beef with you Don but you know whst I'm talking about [/QUOTE]


    Babble, babble and more babble. No one knows what you are talking about.


    "Shoulder Pads" ?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Steve, Fletch,

    I think we watched the same game.  And there will be a lot of infuriating stupidity in the air as trolls troll and fans vent.  I mean, marco's on his hobby horse about Eriksson and Soderberg because the silver lining here for him is he can claim he knew it allllll along, but on the Lucic thread marco is actually the voice of reason.  Go figure. Somewhere on this board, Stanley is crowing about Merlot giving up the first goal.

    In the cold light of day, they got beat.  The simplest way to put it, for me, is that they lost the mental game.  Coaches have to take some responsibility for not having a counter to Therrien jumping their system plays and breakouts.  Montreal showed its hand and it sure was obvious what they were trying to do, so why did the Bruins not tweak a few things?  I saw two instances when they did something that was clearly a response to the way the Canadiens were pressuring and I thought it might be coaching, but it was a player making a play - Chara faked a the usual reverse behind the net and then went with the grain rather than against etc.  There's a lot to say about the fact that, other than Chara and Boychuk, 20 year old Hamilton was the most experienced blueliner.  He was also the best...but when the pressure mounted, you can't reasonably expect the 20 year old to carry the unit.  And the impact of the inexperience was so tangible from Miller's gaffe in game 6 and his bad pass icing that led to goal two last night; Bartkowski's penalty in game 1 that led to the OT goal and his old man in a hat driving a lincoln sized blindspot that allowed Weise to slide up beside him and score uncontested - first goals and last goals were directly related to blown plays or coverages by the rooks.

    Overconfidence is one explanation.  I can't imagine they would ever overlook Montreal, but it sure seemed like they might have been conserving energy for a rematch with Chicago.  Did they get caught reading their clippings?  And the way the series played out, it was like they seemed to think they could flip the switch when they needed it.  Comeback in game one and lose because Price gets help from the posts in OT and Bartkowski takes a stupid penalty.  Comeback in game two from two down and then they seemed to relax - like they had it back on track.  Lose game 3 in Montreal but then win two straight.  All while playing less than good.  So they had reason to think that they didn't need their A+ game to beat Montreal...until they couldn't find their A+ game when they needed it.

    On the officiating, I couldn't believe my ears when the CBC announcers were actually call Montreal on the sneaky trips.  They showed two or three slewfoot plays in quick succession on one series.  Want to know why Montreal won races to the puck all the time?  Holding the stick and kicking a guy's feet out sure makes it easier.  Every non-Bruin fan's response to this is "Well, Marchand."  That's one guy.  This is systemic.  I saw at least 7 or 8 different Montreal players do this strategically on a regular basis.

    I doubt Chiarelli makes major changes.  I've had the feeling since early on that Eriksson would have a significantly better year next year, and a full year of him playing with Soderberg and a steady LW could be very productive.  Maybe that's where Marchand should go....  They integrated Iginla, Eriksson, Soderberg, Smith, Krug, Bartkowski, Miller into the everyday lineup this year.  It's amazing they were as successful as they were in the regular season.  Other than Iginla, I don't see any reason why any of those guys would be worse next year than this year, and I don't see a need to change the core, so I'm not sure what Chiarelli would change to make the team better.  They lost a series.  Let's hope they learn from it the way they did the Philly series.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think this post and the reasoning is very good, especially for the defensive end of things.  I think there is a good point in there about the young d-man struggling with sudden, needed adjustments.  Since Julien chose those guys over veteran players like Meszaros and Potter (and Seids?), you have to think that he either wasn't interested in making those adjustments, or he thought those guys were capable of it.  I guess a third option is that he didn't think those two veterans were good enough to play at all, which makes you wonder why PC went and got them.

    The other side of this though, is that the Bruins scored just one goal in the critical final two games.  That's not on Bartkowski, Krug, Hamilton, and Miller.  That's on Bergeron, Krejci, Marchand, Lucic, etc.  

    I understand that the 'broken breakout' has some impact on the offense too, but there are a lot of other factors.  The forecheck wasn't consistently effective.  The cycling wasn't much better.  Lucic looked nothing like the dominant Lucic against Toronto last year (although I thought he played fairly well).  Krejci looked hesitant with the puck and sloppy.  Marchand, well, it's been said...  Chara didn't look like he could fire the big slapper and usually passed instead.  More than anything, they lacked touch.  Just couldn't finish, and they peppered the posts.  The looked about as comfortable on the powerplay as Chris Nilan in his court appointed rehab.

    I don't think big changes are coming either.  Marchand is the only major one that would not surprise me.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bingobilly. Show bingobilly's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    stevegm, I didn't want to bring up the officiating. But, my god, it reminds me of the 70's and early 80's Bruins-Habs playoff refereeing. When do we ever get a break against the Habs in the playoffs?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    It will never change... The Montreal Canadiens are the New York Yankees of hockey.  Both are reasonably talented and very good year after year without "outside assistance" however, historically both leagues regard them as "special" and the essence of each sport hence on a "rare" occasion "outside help" seems to find them.

     

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from socca10. Show socca10's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to bingobilly's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    stevegm, I didn't want to bring up the officiating. But, my god, it reminds me of the 70's and early 80's Bruins-Habs playoff refereeing. When do we ever get a break against the Habs in the playoffs?

     [/QUOTE]

    It will never change... The Montreal Canadiens are the New York Yankees of hockey.  Both are reasonably talented and very good year after year without "outside assistance" however, historically both leagues regard them as "special" and the essence of each sport hence on a "rare" occasion "outside help" seems to find them.

     [/QUOTE]

    I will say I thought overall the referees had very little negative impact on the series... until game 7. The B's had a hard enough task overcoming the Habs and their own ineptitude in the series, but the calls and missed calls - in the first period especially - got the B's off-kilter for sure.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lex44. Show Lex44's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to socca10's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to bingobilly's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Don-Bruino's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    stevegm, I didn't want to bring up the officiating. But, my god, it reminds me of the 70's and early 80's Bruins-Habs playoff refereeing. When do we ever get a break against the Habs in the playoffs?

     [/QUOTE]

    It will never change... The Montreal Canadiens are the New York Yankees of hockey.  Both are reasonably talented and very good year after year without "outside assistance" however, historically both leagues regard them as "special" and the essence of each sport hence on a "rare" occasion "outside help" seems to find them.

     [/QUOTE]

    I will say I thought overall the referees had very little negative impact on the series... until game 7. The B's had a hard enough task overcoming the Habs and their own ineptitude in the series, but the calls and missed calls - in the first period especially - got the B's off-kilter for sure.

    [/QUOTE]

    The calls on Marchand were tough ones . If he hadn't made fools of the refs in earlier games they may have been called different . If you keep a player like that on your team with all the dirty work and diving then you can't complain when it bites you in butt.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to Lex44's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The calls on Marchand were tough ones . If he hadn't made fools of the refs in earlier games they may have been called different . If you keep a player like that on your team with all the dirty work and diving then you can't complain when it bites you in butt.

    [/QUOTE]

    Marchand was an idiot, but if the theory is that diving catches up to you with the refs, then Montreal would probably be faking injuries on the golf course now instead of playing.

    The snowing of the goalie is an interesting call for sure.  I can see both sides, I guess.

    I had never seen that called a penalty in the playoffs until this year.  It happened to Landeskog too, late in the critical Game 6 against Minnesota.  That call was actually worse, because the Wild goalie really hesitated to cover up the puck, leaving it sitting in front for a second.  Landeskog came charging after it, the goalie covered at the last second, snow shower, penalty.  I think that if the goalie fails to cover the puck, a scramble and snow shower is fair game.

    Price did not hesitate to cover, the play was obviously over, and Marchand gave him the shower.  Dave Jackson was probably waiting for it.  Dumb.

    However, there are few officiating preferences I would have regarding this scenario.

    I wish the refs would be consistent with all encroachment on the goalie.  I noticed Gallagher and Eller in particular would come in on Rask after he covered and after the whistle almost every time.  They didn't hit him or shower him as directly as Marchand did, but they would literally hover over him and then wait for the defense (Chara in particular) to do something/anything while eyeing the ref, ready to violently fall in a heap.  They know the refs will protect them while performing frottage on Rask and daring Chara to do something about it

    When I say the refs should be consistent here, I would prefer that the consistently let the players have some control over these situations.  

    I know they don't like breaking up scrums, and the ever-present narrative from Montreal is that the Bruins would try to start trouble.  But if I'm Dave Jackson and I watch the Marchand snow shower I would just give the Dmen 2 seconds of immunity to pound him.  Same with Gallagher, if he comes in after the whistle to hang on Rask while baiting Chara, I'd let Chara deal with it (within reason).  Give some control back to the players.

    The problem with the referee trying to control those situations all the time, is that everything then becomes about them (like soccer).  It encourages taunting, baiting, and faking (because those aren't penalties), but discourages the age-old reality that messing with the goalie gets you decked.  Or the reality that chopping at a 6'9 260 lb man and daring him to do anything about it is bad for your health.

    I think this is what drove the Bruins/Lucic so crazy in some ways.  Guys like Gallagher, Eller and Weise (and Marchand for that matter) try to start trouble on every shift with no intention of ever backing it up physically.  Then everyone is looking at the ref to keep control.  Instead of accountability it's like a bunch of kids all appealing to the teacher all game long.

    I'm not asking for a return to the stone-age brawls and goons, but it would be nice if the officiating could figure out a way to discourage the taunting, baiting, and teasing that is a disgrace in other sports and has been held at bay in hockey for many years by the players themselves.  The refs aren't capable of controlling taunting and faking; the players are.  Or they used to be.

    Obviously this perspective is difficult to make when you have Marchand on your team.  In fact, that's the rebuttal of every argument for 'Bruins hockey' from anyone around the league.  And...they're right.  Time to get rid of Marchand (or bench him if he doesn't knock off the nonsense).

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Lex44. Show Lex44's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Lex44's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    The calls on Marchand were tough ones . If he hadn't made fools of the refs in earlier games they may have been called different . If you keep a player like that on your team with all the dirty work and diving then you can't complain when it bites you in butt.

    [/QUOTE]

    Marchand was an idiot, but if the theory is that diving catches up to you with the refs, then Montreal would probably be faking injuries on the golf course now instead of playing.

    The snowing of the goalie is an interesting call for sure.  I can see both sides, I guess.

    I had never seen that called a penalty in the playoffs until this year.  It happened to Landeskog too, late in the critical Game 6 against Minnesota.  That call was actually worse, because the Wild goalie really hesitated to cover up the puck, leaving it sitting in front for a second.  Landeskog came charging after it, the goalie covered at the last second, snow shower, penalty.  I think that if the goalie fails to cover the puck, a scramble and snow shower is fair game.

    Price did not hesitate to cover, the play was obviously over, and Marchand gave him the shower.  Dave Jackson was probably waiting for it.  Dumb.

    However, there are few officiating preferences I would have regarding this scenario.

    I wish the refs would be consistent with all encroachment on the goalie.  I noticed Gallagher and Eller in particular would come in on Rask after he covered and after the whistle almost every time.  They didn't hit him or shower him as directly as Marchand did, but they would literally hover over him and then wait for the defense (Chara in particular) to do something/anything while eyeing the ref, ready to violently fall in a heap.  They know the refs will protect them while performing frottage on Rask and daring Chara to do something about it

    When I say the refs should be consistent here, I would prefer that the consistently let the players have some control over these situations.  

    I know they don't like breaking up scrums, and the ever-present narrative from Montreal is that the Bruins would try to start trouble.  But if I'm Dave Jackson and I watch the Marchand snow shower I would just give the Dmen 2 seconds of immunity to pound him.  Same with Gallagher, if he comes in after the whistle to hang on Rask while baiting Chara, I'd let Chara deal with it (within reason).  Give some control back to the players.

    The problem with the referee trying to control those situations all the time, is that everything then becomes about them (like soccer).  It encourages taunting, baiting, and faking (because those aren't penalties), but discourages the age-old reality that messing with the goalie gets you decked.  Or the reality that chopping at a 6'9 260 lb man and daring him to do anything about it is bad for your health.

    I think this is what drove the Bruins/Lucic so crazy in some ways.  Guys like Gallagher, Eller and Weise (and Marchand for that matter) try to start trouble on every shift with no intention of ever backing it up physically.  Then everyone is looking at the ref to keep control.  Instead of accountability it's like a bunch of kids all appealing to the teacher all game long.

    I'm not asking for a return to the stone-age brawls and goons, but it would be nice if the officiating could figure out a way to discourage the taunting, baiting, and teasing that is a disgrace in other sports and has been held at bay in hockey for many years by the players themselves.  The refs aren't capable of controlling taunting and faking; the players are.  Or they used to be.

    Obviously this perspective is difficult to make when you have Marchand on your team.  In fact, that's the rebuttal of every argument for 'Bruins hockey' from anyone around the league.  And...they're right.  Time to get rid of Marchand (or bench him if he doesn't knock off the nonsense).

    [/QUOTE]

    Correct Marchand was just an idiot. The snow shower was done on purpose. Would any other player on the team do that in such a big game at that time.  Claude looked so surprised by the call. Lol.  Was he surprised at who did it??   I doubt it

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to Lex44's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Correct Marchand was just an idiot. The snow shower was done on purpose. Would any other player on the team do that in such a big game at that time.  Claude looked so surprised by the call. Lol.  Was he surprised at who did it??   I doubt it

    [/QUOTE]

    To be fair, I think everyone was surprised by it, just because it is so unusual.  Claude looked like he literally didn't understand what happened.  

    The NBC crewed carried on for a while about what a ridiculous call that was in a game 7, especially Pierre McGuire (surprisingly).  McGuire at that point "this has not been a well officiated game".

    I think when everyone watched the replays, and saw just how blatant it was, the disgust turned to Marchand.  I don't really have a problem with it, if that level of scrutiny is applied to Gallagher too, which of course, it wasn't.

    Again, my belief is that the nearest Montreal player should be able to deck Marchand without a penalty for that, but that isn't the way the game is going...the exact reason why Marchand and Gallagher keep doing that stuff...

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    A lot of things the officials can do.  Personally, I feel it's an IQ problem.  They have a dumb sense of justice.  Not just in this series, but I've noticed a general decline in overall judgement for a while now.  Probably since this "player safety" thing sent them for a loop.

      That's not good cause it was never great to start with.

    One example is the retaliatory stuff that gets called.  Plain and simple, that's just incompetence.  Bantam level officiating. The best in the world are expected to "call what they see".

    There is a lot of communication out there between officials and players.  Good refs work the players, so they can avoid being too standoutish.  They used to anyway.

    When you look at everything that went on...just what the refs saw, and didn't do anything about....it makes the snow job even more comical.  How large would the roar be, if that call wasn't made?  There would have been no reaction from the crowd, and none from the Habs either.  This is hockey for cryin out loud.  Game 7 playoff hockey.  We have about the most violent sport on the planet here.  We regularly see players lugged off the ice on stretchers as a result of injuries that that weeks, months, and even years to heal....and there's always a pretty significant part of the fandom arguing whether there even should have been a penalty?  But  get a little ice dust on somebody's sweater?  Yes sir, we sure have to deal with that firmly.

    Give me a break.

    You guys can get all girlie on this player, but consider this.  The Canadiens morphed half their team into Marchands, only they were a little more cowardly, and a whole lot more sneaky.  Maybe you shouldn't be so critical of what works.

    Therrien even publicly talked about the teams  strategy, openly and regularly.  We have to get those Bruin guys in the penalty box.   That was their game plan.  Pick, prod and pissss off.  Anything goes, then turtle, dive, play dead, or any combination thereof.  And all the while, good ole Therrien uses every chance he gets to cry that they're being victimized by those bad ole Bruins. 

    You'd think that's kind of a heads up for the leagues refs, and I think it was.  They bought it.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    Steve, I think the Habs know when the B's get too emotional it gets them off their game and they played it to a tee and the B's fell for it. I think if the B's just focused on combing their skill play with physical play they would have been fine. They strayed from what got them there and it cost them.




     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kitchener. Show kitchener's posts

    Re: They Played Like Fools

    In response to kelvana33's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Steve, I think the Habs know when the B's get too emotional it gets them off their game and they played it to a tee and the B's fell for it. I think if the B's just focused on combing their skill play with physical play they would have been fine. They strayed from what got them there and it cost them.




    [/QUOTE]

    Maybee so but why,don't get how a fairly veteran team that has been there before,they were a minute away from playing game seven for the cup last season,had a great regular season,looked like they wanted to get to the cup again,How could they let Montreal make them forget what they were there for.Yeah just don't get it,gotta say if Bruins don't meat Scabs in the playoffs i will be very happy.

     

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