Time to recall Jordan Caron?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    Have you ever heard of a player being better in the NHL than he is in the AHL? People aren't harping on Bourque for his lack of production. It's more about his inability to provide anything tangible to the chemistry of the 3rd line. If you're not going to be a hard checking, defensive stalwart who can kill penalties, then you'd better put up some numbers to make up for it. Bourque hasn't done much of either. Caron can do positive things when he's not scoring. Bourque doesn't seem like he can.

     

     



    I know that people here talk about players like that, but I can't think of one right away...and don't feel like doing any research right now lol.  Can you help me out with a few examples?

     




    I already told you. Caron is my example.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    Marchand scored 18 goals in his only full season in Providence. Then he had 2 seasons over 20 with the Bruins and he will no doubt get another 20 goals this year. That is agreat example of when you get surrounded by better players.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Marchand scored 18 goals in his only full season in Providence. Then he had 2 seasons over 20 with the Bruins and he will no doubt get another 20 goals this year. That is agreat example of when you get surrounded by better players.




    Marchand is scoring at a 50 goal pace so far this year San.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    I already told you. Caron is my example.



    I understand that Caron is being used here as the example, but you asked if I had ever heard of guys playing better in the NHL than the AHL.  I have heard it mentioned here, but really haven't heard of it elsewhere.  I'm not trying to be combative.  I'm hoping to understand the concept better.  I'm asking you to help me out and offer a few examples of players who have played better in the NHL than they did in the NHL. 

    It will also help me understand this Caron situation better.

    Thanks.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    I already told you. Caron is my example.

     

     



    I understand that Caron is being used here as the example, but you asked if I had ever heard of guys playing better in the NHL than the AHL.  I have heard it mentioned here, but really haven't heard of it elsewhere.  I'm not trying to be combative.  I'm hoping to understand the concept better.  I'm asking you to help me out and offer a few examples of players who have played better in the NHL than they did in the NHL. 

     

    It will also help me understand this Caron situation better.

    Thanks.

     




    Redden and Souray then off the top of my head. In the AHL Caron skates with Hanson and Robins. In the NHL he'd play with Kelly and Peverley. If you have trouble wrapping your head around it then I don't know to tell you. I don't have time to do the research to prove the theory to you but there are players who play better as the competition rises (Hamilton is another). Believe it or don't but it happens.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    Marchand scored 18 goals in his only full season in Providence. Then he had 2 seasons over 20 with the Bruins and he will no doubt get another 20 goals this year. That is agreat example of when you get surrounded by better players.

    Marchand is scoring at a 50 goal pace so far this year San.




    I agree and I'm using that as an example to being able to produce higher numbers in the NHL than the AHL.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    Redden and Souray then off the top of my head. In the AHL Caron skates with Hanson and Robins. In the NHL he'd play with Kelly and Peverley. If you have trouble wrapping your head around it then I don't know to tell you. I don't have time to do the research to prove the theory to you but there are players who play better as the competition rises (Hamilton is another). Believe it or don't but it happens.



    Oh, I thought when people were using that reference, they were referring to young players, not guys who got demoted 12 or 13 years into their careers.

    Again, I'm not trying to be combative.  This theory of guys who play better in the NHL than the AHL gets batted around here once in a while and I've never understood it.  I can't think of a single AHL player who was playing average or below average than came up to the NHL and did well.

    If anyone else that reads this believes in the idea, please give me a couple of examples.  To be clear:  I'm not saying this because I don't think you can and want to prove a point.  I am interested in the idea and want to look into it further.  I've looked up a bunch of guys tonight, but really can't find any that fit the criterion.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    I agree and I'm using that as an example to being able to produce higher numbers in the NHL than the AHL.



    Marchand's best AHL season was 59 points.  In the NHL, his best has been 55.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Marchand's best AHL season was 59 points.  In the NHL, his best has been 55.



    Dez and I weren't weren't looking for assists becuase Marchand is a winger not a center. I could care less about his assists as a winger but they are a bonus. The facts are, recently an AHL Bruins prospect improved his goall scoring immensily.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Dez and I weren't weren't looking for assists becuase Marchand is a winger not a center. I could care less about his assists as a winger but they are a bonus. The facts are, recently an AHL Bruins prospect improved his goall scoring immensily.



    LOL

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    Cassidy said recently that if you don't score in the AHL you are not going to get looked at by the NHL. Bourque is doing niether playmaking nor scoring goals in the NHL, so ypur point about total points means nothing.

    LoL

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    Cassidy said recently that if you don't score in the AHL you are not going to get looked at by the NHL. Bourque is doing niether playmaking nor scoring goals in the NHL, so ypur point about total points means nothing.

    LoL

    Bourque isn't part of this topic.

    This debunks the theory, however.  Thanks for your help.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    Bourque is part of the topic and so were total goals. Bourque is done with the NHL Bruins and Marchand is scoring more goals in the NHL than the AHL.

    LOL

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    Redden and Souray then off the top of my head. In the AHL Caron skates with Hanson and Robins. In the NHL he'd play with Kelly and Peverley. If you have trouble wrapping your head around it then I don't know to tell you. I don't have time to do the research to prove the theory to you but there are players who play better as the competition rises (Hamilton is another). Believe it or don't but it happens.

     

     



    Oh, I thought when people were using that reference, they were referring to young players, not guys who got demoted 12 or 13 years into their careers.

     

    Again, I'm not trying to be combative.  This theory of guys who play better in the NHL than the AHL gets batted around here once in a while and I've never understood it.  I can't think of a single AHL player who was playing average or below average than came up to the NHL and did well.

    If anyone else that reads this believes in the idea, please give me a couple of examples.  To be clear:  I'm not saying this because I don't think you can and want to prove a point.  I am interested in the idea and want to look into it further.  I've looked up a bunch of guys tonight, but really can't find any that fit the criterion.




    The theory is that players can be better by playing with better players. It's not age specific. I don't even know how I could begin to research the theory without just randomly perusing player stats. Caron has already shown he scores at a better clip in the NHL than in the minors hasn't he? About a third of the Sens team is playing better in the bigs than they were in the minors. Zibanejad definitely is. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    The theory is that players can be better by playing with better players. It's not age specific. I don't even know how I could begin to research the theory without just randomly perusing player stats. Caron has already shown he scores at a better clip in the NHL than in the minors hasn't he? About a third of the Sens team is playing better in the bigs than they were in the minors. Zibanejad definitely is. 



    Caron's scores once ever 4.28 AHL games and once ever 7.1 NHL games. 

    I can certainly see how playing with NHL players could increase a players stats, but at the same time, they have to play against NHL players, which would have the opposite effect.

    If Caron is the answer, then I want him in Boston, of course.  I just don't think he is.

    I didn't get to see Zibanejad in the AHL. He wasn't at the games I saw.  I saw Binghamton a few times last year, but was more focused on Lehner than their scorers.  De Costa and Hoffman don't really bring you out of your seat...ever.

    Sadly, I missed Jessiman also.  That would have been fun.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

     


    The theory is that players can be better by playing with better players. It's not age specific. I don't even know how I could begin to research the theory without just randomly perusing player stats. Caron has already shown he scores at a better clip in the NHL than in the minors hasn't he? About a third of the Sens team is playing better in the bigs than they were in the minors. Zibanejad definitely is. 

     



    Caron's scores once ever 4.28 AHL games and once ever 7.1 NHL games

     

    I can certainly see how playing with NHL players could increase a players stats, but at the same time, they have to play against NHL players, which would have the opposite effect.

    If Caron is the answer, then I want him in Boston, of course.  I just don't think he is.

    I didn't get to see Zibanejad in the AHL. He wasn't at the games I saw.  I saw Binghamton a few times last year, but was more focused on Lehner than their scorers.  De Costa and Hoffman don't really bring you out of your seat...ever.

    Sadly, I missed Jessiman also.  That would have been fun.

     




    Look at points per minute played. Trust me, his numbers would rise with better linemates and competition. You're not alone on this one. My scout pal agrees with you on this. He tells me that Caron took a step back for some reason. He said Caron looked like he may have been playing hurt because he was only a shadow of himself. I'm not saying that he was injured BTW, only that he was surprisingly worse. And not to pull the scout buddy card but he and I have often discussed the concept of guys who's skill sets translate better to the pros. He said that as a pro scout, half his job is to figure out which players those guys are. He needs to find NHL talent wasting away on other teams AHL clubs. Would McQuaid fit the bill as another who has upped his game in the NHL?

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jalvis. Show jalvis's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    Surely someone must have the tally of Caron's, Bourque's, and Marchand's "scoring chances" in AHL, right?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    It's possible.

    And don't call me Shirley.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlueChip99. Show BlueChip99's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    No need to go far.

    Thomas was a much better goalie in the NHL.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



    Look at points per minute played. Trust me, his numbers would rise with better linemates and competition. You're not alone on this one. My scout pal agrees with you on this. He tells me that Caron took a step back for some reason. He said Caron looked like he may have been playing hurt because he was only a shadow of himself. I'm not saying that he was injured BTW, only that he was surprisingly worse. And not to pull the scout buddy card but he and I have often discussed the concept of guys who's skill sets translate better to the pros. He said that as a pro scout, half his job is to figure out which players those guys are. He needs to find NHL talent wasting away on other teams AHL clubs. Would McQuaid fit the bill as another who has upped his game in the NHL?



    With players like McQuaid, it gets a bit muddy.  Is he playing better because he's in the NHL, or is he playing better because his skills are improving overall?  Tons of guys start in the AHL and move to the NHL.  It's not to say that they weren't doing well in the minors but are in the NHL, but that their skills matured and grew.

    This is what I don't see from Caron.  I can't even tell you how many times I've seen him play for Providence, partly because I've see so many Providence games it's borderline stupid, and partly because he's a non-factor often.

    It's 100% true that I've been down on this guy since they called his name and he took over two minutes to get to the stage (Chowda hates that I use that against him), but as a B's fan, I'd much rather be wrong here than right.

    I just don't think I am.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to BlueChip99's comment:

    No need to go far.

    Thomas was a much better goalie in the NHL.




    He was also better in Helsinki.

    Of course, in Providence, he didn't have Zdeno Chara or a Stanley Cup caliber team in front of him.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:



    With players like McQuaid, it gets a bit muddy.  Is he playing better because he's in the NHL, or is he playing better because his skills are improving overall?  Tons of guys start in the AHL and move to the NHL.  It's not to say that they weren't doing well in the minors but are in the NHL, but that their skills matured and grew.

     

    This is what I don't see from Caron.  I can't even tell you how many times I've seen him play for Providence, partly because I've see so many Providence games it's borderline stupid, and partly because he's a non-factor often.

    It's 100% true that I've been down on this guy since they called his name and he took over two minutes to get to the stage (Chowda hates that I use that against him), but as a B's fan, I'd much rather be wrong here than right.

    I just don't think I am.

     



    Fair enough. I liked what I've seen in his limited pro minutes. He hits hard and has a heavy shot. Tough to move in front. That's what I'd like to see more of from line 3 and 4.

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    Why do CJ keeps Thornton in the line up....15GP.  1 point and -4. and he does fight anymore...HELLO someone please wake up ..Spooner and Tardif never really got a real chance ...they both played a total of 10 minutes together...dont tell me that they couldnt do better than Thornton...gove me a break ...

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BlueChip99. Show BlueChip99's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     

    In response to BlueChip99's comment:

     

    No need to go far.

    Thomas was a much better goalie in the NHL.

    BlueChip99

    ................................................................................

     




    He was also better in Helsinki.

     

    Of course, in Providence, he didn't have Zdeno Chara or a Stanley Cup caliber team in front of him.

    Not-A-Shot

    ......................................................................................................................................

     



     He was the only Bruins since Bobby Orr to win a Stanley Cup almost single-handedly,

     

    Vezina, Conny Smithe and the Stanley Cup in the same year.

    Probably the best goalie in the the Bruins history.
    Possibly his jersey removed  after his retirement.   And you think he hides behind a team.   You say anything!!!

    And I'm polite!!

     If I was not, I'd say you have a hole in the head.

    BlueChip99

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Time to recall Jordan Caron?

    TT is the best goalie in the Bruins history , will Rask become as good ?   I have to admit that so far he'es been excellent...tonight he should have stopped the 1st goal ....I dont the Bruins played well in the 3rd without Chara.  On the 3rd goal ..Desharnais was standingnin front of Tuuka I dont understand why no D didnt come to push hum...Rask never saw the puck...

     
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