Toronto Maple Leafs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : Chicago too though perhaps to a lesser extent. There were no Crosby's or Malkin's to draft when they tanked. Only Kane's and Toews'.
    Posted by jaywall


    This conversation got stupid. Pittsburgh tanking it? Chicago? How about Pittsburgh just stunk and had some real bad financial problems, doubt they tanked a season for their 6% chance of landing Crosby.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I don't necessarily hate the Leafs or their fans, but I have experienced them at their worst. Right now they lose all the time, but give them a few wins and wow, they don't shut up. The whole center of the hockey universe thing is annoying. Most of them are just good solid Canadian hockey fans though.  I do really dislike Brian Burke though. I can't stand his bullish attitude.  You're a GM, not an MMA fighter. You're not going to beat anyone up and force them to trade with you. He's also a hypocrite - mocking Kevin Lowe for signing Penner to an offer sheet then trading to get his own 2nd rounder back so he could use the threat on Boston with Kessel. He said such moves are the mark of a desperate GM... I guess he was desperate. I think he's entertaining but a jerk, and I'm glad to see him fail. With weak prospects, a terrible team and a couple of years without 1st rounders the Leafs are in worse shape than when he took over. By the time whoever they draft this year is ready to play, Kessel will be a UFA. It's a mess. He thought he could out-fox PC and steal Kessel and build a team without high picks by being smarter and bolder than other managers. At least he was bold. I can't stand egos.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : This conversation got stupid. Pittsburgh tanking it? Chicago? How about Pittsburgh just stunk and had some real bad financial problems, doubt they tanked a season for their 6% chance of landing Crosby.
    Posted by kelvana33


    I meant "tank" in the form of sucking and not in some conspiratorial way. Sorry for the misinterpretation.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bleedinblackandgold. Show Bleedinblackandgold's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    One simple question with Burke's performance since he's arrived in TO.   Are the Leafs a better team ?
    Posted by Chowdahkid-


    Nope. Wasnt Burke painted as some hockey messiah when he arrived there?

    I don't totally hate the guy. The Bruins did manage to fleece him on the Kessel deal
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : This conversation got stupid. Pittsburgh tanking it? Chicago? How about Pittsburgh just stunk and had some real bad financial problems, doubt they tanked a season for their 6% chance of landing Crosby.
    Posted by kelvana33


    Not so much with the Crosby draft but previous drafts. Pittsburgh did everything possible to lose as many games as possible in previous years, particularly the Lemieux draft. Yes, they threw games. No doubt about it and it was common knowledge around the league.
     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : But conspiracy seems to be one of the core values of the Bettman Hockey League. To generate interest (ie money) you create drama with illusion that one team is superior then the other. When Officiating can manipulate the outcome of who wins and who lose's, the conspiracy is actually reality. Prime example, NBC having the B's win the Cup...next
    Posted by null

    what the heck do you know about reality? keep crying chump, it suits you well.
    weh weh weh
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : what the heck do you know about reality? keep crying chump, it suits you well. weh weh weh
    Posted by adkbeesfan

    Your not going to stop a Canuck fan from crying adk,i've dealt with lots of them and they're still really bitter. Oh well.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    If success is measured in getting a top pick in this years draft and a 20-30 game run of good play at the start of the year then I guess the answer to "are they better ? " is yes.

    I don't think that's what was expected of Burke after 4 years on the job. They stink and there's only one guy to blame now that Wilson has gotten the boot and Ferguson's been long gone.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : This conversation got stupid. Pittsburgh tanking it? Chicago? How about Pittsburgh just stunk and had some real bad financial problems, doubt they tanked a season for their 6% chance of landing Crosby.
    Posted by kelvana33

    The lottery is in place because of seasons like Pitt had the year they drafted Mario. It's not outrageous to say that Pitt has "tanked" before. It's also not all about Crosby as Pitt had a 5 year run between 2002-2006 in which they picked 5-1-2-1-2.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : The lottery is in place because of seasons like Pitt had the year they drafted Mario. It's not outrageous to say that Pitt has "tanked" before. It's also not all about Crosby as Pitt had a 5 year run between 2002-2006 in which they picked 5-1-2-1-2.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    All good points, dez.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : The lottery is in place because of seasons like Pitt had the year they drafted Mario. It's not outrageous to say that Pitt has "tanked" before. It's also not all about Crosby as Pitt had a 5 year run between 2002-2006 in which they picked 5-1-2-1-2.
    Posted by dezaruchi


    I understand that, but it's kind of a harsh statement, if it was like a poster said common knowledge Pitt tanked in order to get Mario, how is that so? Did they purposely bench players to lose? Because If I'm a player, I'm playing my best so i get paid, I'm not tanking for anyone. How do you get players to underperform? Now obviously they didnt have enough good players, thats why they stunk..I've heard this before regarding the Nordiques and Lindros, and like that, I just don't buy the conspiracy theories.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : I understand that, but it's kind of a harsh statement, if it was like a poster said common knowledge Pitt tanked in order to get Mario, how is that so? Did they purposely bench players to lose? Because If I'm a player, I'm playing my best so i get paid, I'm not tanking for anyone. How do you get players to underperform? Now obviously they didnt have enough good players, thats why they stunk..I've heard this before regarding the Nordiques and Lindros, and like that, I just don't buy the conspiracy theories.
    Posted by kelvana33

    Kel, I agree the players will always work hard but it's all about which players management chooses to fill the lineup with. If Boston chose to replace the injured Peverley with Whitfield instead of acquiring Rolston, that would feel like PC made no attempt to improve. Theory is that if you're pre-Mario Pitt or the early Nords, you use nothing but Whitfields all year. I'm not saying this is what happenned for sure. It's just a theory.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    That's like saying the Jets tanked to get Hawerchuk, or the Wings did to get Yzerman. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, pretty impossible to say for sure either way, but I would highly doubt it was the case.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    That's like saying the Jets tanked to get Hawerchuk, or the Wings did to get Yzerman. Maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, pretty impossible to say for sure either way, but I would highly doubt it was the case.
    Posted by red75


    Wow...you and kel are being incredibly naive. It happens in every sport except baseball for boring reasons that I won't go in to here. Basketball is good for this. The Celtics did it in 2006ish, I'm ashamed to say. It's an near-annual event in the NFL. An organization can put their own team at a number of disadvantages in a number of ways that all add up to undermining the team's chances to win on any given night. I don't believe the coach instructs his team to go out there and give it 50% or anything that obvious. There is no doubt in anyone's mind who experienced the 1983 Pittsburgh season that they tanked (the league was convinced too). That's the most obvious and glaring example of tanking in the NHL but I truly believe other teams have done so.  
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Not saying it doesn't happen, but sometimes teams are just really, really bad, and it's hard to tell the difference at certain points. Did the 92/93 Sharks and Sens intentionallytank? How about the 74/75 Capitals? The 80/81 Jets? The 82/83 Wings? The 00/01 Thrashers? The 10/11 Oilers? Tell me which ones intentionally tanked and which ones were just bad, then you can call me naive. It's highly likely that some teams have done, but tell me how you can be certain which ones are which?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Well, I'm certain of one and it's naive to think it never happened on other occasions. To believe it doesn't happen because I can't provide hard proof doesn't mean I'm cynical either.  I know, you didn't call me cynical...but if you're not being naive, I'm being cynical. There's enough empirical evidence to suggest I'm right.
     
    I'm not saying all those crappy teams tanked....the vast majority of them probably were just horrible teams. I agree, it's difficult to tell most of the times when a team is just garbage or tanking.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    And I'm not saying you're wrong... just that you can't be proven right. You likely are right, but it's hard as hell, as you agreed, to tell the difference between horrible and tanking.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Sad..............just very sad


    I don't even have the energy to count all the ways this has been sad.


    I was all for Burke coming to Toronto.  The farm system is probably stronger then it ever has been, but the NHL roster is a disaster, too small and too soft.


    Trades have generally been pretty good, but free agent signings have been absolutely brutal.


    Needed a veteran goalie to help mentor the young guys.  Allaire is supposed to be a goalie teaching guru.  If so, he suks


    It's just so sad...................

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    LRH,

    We feel your pain. It's not like the B's have been top of the heap for the entire last half century. But to build a team with no goalies, centers, or defensemen is inexcusable.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    LRH, We feel your pain. It's not like the B's have been top of the heap for the entire last half century. But to build a team with no goalies, centers, or defensemen is inexcusable.
    Posted by seobrien


    Yeah, Burke should have begun with one of those three (goalie, center, or Dman) and worked from there. Instead he went for Kessel a high scoring RL sniper who was famous for his lack of work ethic in Boston. Not sure how everyone got so sucked into his non-rebuild rebuild.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    Well, I'm certain of one and it's naive to think it never happened on other occasions. To believe it doesn't happen because I can't provide hard proof doesn't mean I'm cynical either.  I know, you didn't call me cynical...but if you're not being naive, I'm being cynical. There's enough empirical evidence to suggest I'm right.   I'm not saying all those crappy teams tanked....the vast majority of them probably were just horrible teams. I agree, it's difficult to tell most of the times when a team is just garbage or tanking.
    Posted by WalkTheLine


    I'm not saying it didnt happen, I'd love to see the transactions made for that season, box scores etc..You've got me curious.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs:
    In Response to Re: Toronto Maple Leafs : I'm not saying it didnt happen, I'd love to see the transactions made for that season, box scores etc..You've got me curious.
    Posted by kelvana33


    I think the Devils were actually worse than Pittsburgh but their coach was Tom McVie who would never let his team not go all out and he would never coach to do anything bu his best to win. Tom was an assistant in Boston for a number of years. NJ ended up 3 points better than the Pittsburgh tankers and rather than Lemieux they got Kirk Muller with the 2nd overall pick. Not bad, but no Lemieux.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I was going to post another novel about this, but this chunk from, yes, Wikipedia (largely drawing on a story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette) says most of it:

    Heading towards the end of the season ahead of the New Jersey Devils, who were placed last, the Penguins made a number of questionable moves that appeared to weaken the team in the short-term. The Penguins posted three six-game winless streaks in the last 21 games of the season (out of which they won only three) and earned the right to draft Lemieux amidst protests from Devils president Bob Butera.[4] Pittsburgh coach Lou Angotti later admitted that a conscious decision was made to finish the season as the team with the worst record, stating in an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette that a mid-season lunch prompted the plan, in light of the fact that there was a high chance of the franchise folding if Lemieux was not drafted.[5] In particular, Angotti gave the example of a game the Penguins were winning 3–1, at which point general manager Eddie Johnston asked the coach "what are you doing?" in the first intermission of the game that was eventually lost 6–3. The Penguins were still, despite losing ten of their last twelve games, only two games away from losing Lemieux to the Devils.[5] However, Angotti stated that he did not feel comfortable with the plan, even though it worked and saved the franchise.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Well...there ya go. Pretty much as I remembered it as a wee child.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share