Toronto Record Tracker

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from roy22. Show roy22's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Is there a bigger clueless sheep then davecarr??? He right up there along with StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from CamOJonasink. Show CamOJonasink's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    He scores. Yes.  But that is it.  No defense.  No hitting.  Hated by teammates.  He had to go.  They already hate him there.  Big deal about the goals.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Cory316. Show Cory316's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    How would you like to have those 21 goals from Kessel? Would probably look good. Instead of calling Phil overrated, why not attach that label to your beer leaguer Timmy Thomas and the rest of your supposed young studs like Kreijci and Wheeler? It's going to be funny when you get the 6th-7th pick from the Leafs and get an unknown, crushing your dreams of Taylor Hall and Tyler Seguin. 
    Try worrying about your awful team missing the playoffs. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucaooo. Show lucaooo's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Another good news from the Leafs.  I have to admit that the Leafs are trying hard during the last few games.  I am glad that they have lost but i hope they stop getting excited.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Leaf fans are happy we have Kessel.  Most think Burke overspent for him, but we haven't had a sniper like that for a long time.
     
    Not sure where you've read Kessel is hated here in Toronto.  Not true.
    Glad you don't want him, we'll keep him here in TO.  If you have a couple of more no-defence, non hitting potential 40 goal scorers pass them along to us. 

    By the way, how are those 2-way Bruin Right Wingers making out for you this year?
    Blake Wheeler - 13 goals in 57 games and -8
    Marc Recchi - 11 goals in 57 games and -3
    Michael Ryder - 13 goals in 57 games and even
    Bitz - 4 gaols in 44 games and -8

    Oh, I forgot Satan, 2 goals in 16 games.


    Since you don't care about the goals I guess you can ignore 90% of Bruin threads that complain they don't score enough and can't find wingers for Savard.

    Usually lots of intelligent comments from most of the posters here on this forum, unfortunately CamoJonasink, you're not one of them.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Ergoetal:

    Now that's more like it.

    I think there are polar views here in Boston.  Those that hate Kessel not matter what and make things up and those that Love Kessel no matter what....and make things up.  I don't mind the Kessel bashers but when they don't give the kid his dues I try and call them out...  He couldn't score against playoff teams...he wouldn't score without Savard (seems like Savard misses Kessel more than Kessel has missed Savard), he doesn't score important goals, he is selfish and doesn't pass etc.......

    I'm sure the answer is somewhere done the middle.  I can't comment on what he did or did not do for the Bruins.  I've seen most of the Leaf games and from what I've seen:
    1. Kessel is a natural goal scorer without a doubt, but needs a good centerman to be most effective.  Bozak seems to be doing a good job as of late, but he's no Savard. 
    2. Kessel is a better passer then I was led to believe.  He has 20 assists along with the 21 goals and his vision in the offensive zone is a lot better than I thought.  Most teams focus on him so he's had to set others up.
    3. Phaneuf on the powerplay really helps and should result in Kessel scoring more PP goals.  Before they focused on him, now they have to respect the howitzer from the blueline.  Opens up more space
    4. Kessel is an average back-checker, not his forte to be sure, but not as bad as most of the posters here would lead you to believe.
    5. He's only 22 so he's going to keep getting better and more mature as a player.
    6. Bruins still got a great deal for a player they either didn't want at the price he was asking or a player that didn't want to play for CJ. 

    This is a good deal for both teams.  Would I prefer a lottery pick this year instead of Kessel?  I guess we have to wait and see how the lottery pick works out.
    Usually takes 2-3 years to make an impact in the NHL from junior (look at Tavares this year and Stamkos last year).  There are exceptions, but I dont' see a Crosby or Ovey in this draft.  If it takes 2 years, we would have had Kessel scoring 30-40 goals for us during those 3 years so you can only evaluate it once the picks have been made and how they play in the NHL.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from scotland19. Show scotland19's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Count on getting the #3 pick
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GABees. Show GABees's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    It's really nothing personal, Ergoetal.  Like Dave Orr said, quite simply we are looking for the highest draft pick we can get.  So - it's in our interests to see you finish dead last.  

    It's nothing personal towards the Leafs... any other team with our pick would get the same treatment.  Stop being so thin-skinned!  
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slicksteve38. Show slicksteve38's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Bookboy:
    all of those players you listed as being phsyical and can score, are all larger than Kessel.  And to say that Crosby Ovy and Hossa play physical? Thats like calling J.D. Drew a slugger.  he hits more home runs than Ellsbury, but I wouldnt call hima slugger. 
    Kessel is in his early 20's.  Those guys listed have been in the league longer as well....give him time, and enjoy your sour grapes.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    In Response to Re: Toronto Record Tracker:
    DaveCarr and Bim9: We certainly don't need any more threads on Kessel but when I read something stupid, you have to call it out.
    Posted by LoveRealHockey


    Kessel would not be a #5 overall in this draft.  If you think he would be, I'm calling it out.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    Scotland, I'll take the #3 - I'd be happy with any of the top three. 

    As for cutting Kessel slack - well, I guess time will tell if he actually can mature in the way he needs to if he's going to be a contributor for a championship calibre team.  Could be a long wait, and at almost $6M/year in a capped world, I'm just as happy to let the Leafs wait for him. 

    I'm willing to back off the kid in this context, where you're asking me to respect a young guy who has been sheltered and who has been through a health scare.  But the second it gets back to being about the Bruins being stupid for trading him and how great the Laffs will be with him - well, then I feel compelled to point out his flaws and all of the highly talented players over the years who flamed out because they never did mature mentally. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    My passion for the Leafs losing is plain and simple - I like to see the Leafs lose.  When Leafs play the Shabs, I root for the Ref or the guy driving the zamboni or maybe whichever Timbit team starts at my end of the ice. 

    My need to denigrate Kessel has nothing to do with this, though.  I just don't like him.  Fast, sure.  Great release?  Yep.  But I think all it takes to take him off his game is one good facewash or a nice mash into the wall.  Let him have room to manouever and he's dynamic.  Make him pay a price for touching the puck and you might as well change the channel to ice dance.  Watch how the Bruins play him when they play the Leafs.  That plan is clearly to hit Phil, and everyone gets in on it.  I'm guessing that he's feeling a little braver with Phaneuf around - a guy with enough skill to be on the ice at the same time who can also chuck 'em.  But that will pass. Kessel will score a lot of goals for the Leafs, but until he understands that he has to play full tilt even when the other team is challenging his toughness, he'll never be a reliable go-to scorer for a genuine contender. 

    And his absence is NOT the source of Boston's offensive problems, though LRH is right to cite his role as a breakway threat in changing the dynamic.  Much more important is the decline in offensive production from the D and the fact that the Krejci line hasn't finished the way it did last year (and Kessel had nothing to do with that - they're seeing the same level of checking and same D pairings when they're together in part because either Bergeron or Savard has been a bigger, more consistent threat).  The PP is also suffering, mostly from a lack of continuity after all the injuries - notice that it's much more successful since Savard's latest return?  Could the Bruins use 21 goals?  Sure.  Do they necessarily have to be from Phyllis?  Nope.  And if everything else stayed the same - same problems from the back end, same problems with injuries, same problems with the Krejci line - Kessel might have made a difference in 1 or 2 games tops.  That's the differential for a player I'm willing to guarantee flops in every playoff series against a team that can play a physical game. (Remember - great against the Shabs, invisible vs. the 'Canes?)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slicksteve38. Show slicksteve38's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    We are dogging on Kessel because he is no longer here.  Unfortunately people here route for laundry, and cannot see passed the black and gold jersey pulled over their heads.  I have said this since the day they traded him. He opens up the ice for other playmakers because he is such a threat. The reason they scored well in the regular season is because Kessel played a wide open style, and for a while the Bruins were exciting. When you have guys like Kessel, you can allow guys like Lucic to do what they do best, and thats play physical. Now that he is gone, they are asking guys to play roles they arent built for. Lucic is not a scorer....PERIOD...the sooner we realize that the better.
    So now we say things like "not a team player" "his teammated hate him" etc because we dont want to admit that it was a mistake and now the team is suffering. I love the Bruins, but I call it like i see it.....Kessel gone, and guess who is last in the NHL in scoring?
    As for the not playing physical....can anyone name me the last 30/40 goal scorer who was out there mashing people into the boards? Any coach who asks that of a sniper has a death wish for his career.  YOU DONT WANT YOUR BEST SCORER WASTING TIME TIED UP ON THE BOARDS! You want him skating freely to be creative. 
    We all want Cam back again.....40 goals and 40 fights...players like that are very rare...even more rare in todays hockey dominated by European style players. In case you people havent noticed, Kessel plays that style.  So I guess we should trade the guy because he wants the puck and he wants to get paid....go figure.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    lrh.
    Yes, still looks like Hall to be the #1.
    I would still take him as #1 myself, but I would not be in the least bit surprised if Seguin or Fowler ended up a better player after ehir careers are over.  I'm happy with picks 1-3.

    Hit it right on the head with Kessel, as he matures.  He is maturing, slowly.  2 other players who had that bad rep were brought to my attention, Cam Neely and Rick Middleton, although Kessel is maturing slower than any other player I've seen.

    You can't blame me for wondering if he EVER would.

    So goes Kessel, so go the Leafs.  The Leafs go bad, our draft pick looks better.
    Sour grapes?  Somewhat.  But it could never be, the first team he signed with was the team that would suffer the growing pains.  Not a fair comparison, but the first one I could think of off the top of my head, Jeff Lazaro, great speed and showed signs of getting a touch and disappeared.  My point is, if Kessel was just a shooting start, he would not be the first one by any means.

    So goes Kessel, so go the Leafs, so goes the draft pick for Kessel, so goes Boston's future.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    BadHab:

    Who you liking now as a lottery pick?  I think the general consensus is Hall is #1
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mattymcgee55. Show mattymcgee55's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    DaveOrr hit the nail on the head.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    slicksteve - I can name you a dozen guys who score and play physical hockey.  Iginla.  Getzlaf.  Perry.  Carter.  Richards.  Doan.  Brown.  Ryan.  Ovechkin.  Crosby.  Hossa.  Staal.  At least half of these guys routinely mash people. Ovechkin is well known for it, as are Getzlaf and Perry, Carter and Richards.  We saw Staal do it three times a shift in the playoffs.

    But in the end, as I said above, it's not the ability to initiate physical hockey that we're down on with Phyllis.  It's the ability to continue to play at a high level when someone is punishing him.  I have no faith he can do that.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    #3 pick is an excellent bet.
    #2 pick is possible, the next few games will tell us whether Phaneuf just gave them a shot or if it is short lived.
    #1 is practically impossilbe unless we are blessed by the lottery.
    If the Phaneuf deal permanantly put some life into the club, we're looking at possibly a #4 or #5 pick at worst.

    re: Kessel, he is coming along and maturing.  Slowly, but surely he is coming around.  Note that he is doing some good playmaking lately.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from scotland19. Show scotland19's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    In Response to Re: Toronto Record Tracker:
    My passion for the Leafs losing is plain and simple - I like to see the Leafs lose.  When Leafs play the Shabs, I root for the Ref or the guy driving the zamboni or maybe whichever Timbit team starts at my end of the ice.  My need to denigrate Kessel has nothing to do with this, though.  I just don't like him.  Fast, sure.  Great release?  Yep.  But I think all it takes to take him off his game is one good facewash or a nice mash into the wall.  Let him have room to manouever and he's dynamic.  Make him pay a price for touching the puck and you might as well change the channel to ice dance.  Watch how the Bruins play him when they play the Leafs.  That plan is clearly to hit Phil, and everyone gets in on it.  I'm guessing that he's feeling a little braver with Phaneuf around - a guy with enough skill to be on the ice at the same time who can also chuck 'em.  But that will pass. Kessel will score a lot of goals for the Leafs, but until he understands that he has to play full tilt even when the other team is challenging his toughness, he'll never be a reliable go-to scorer for a genuine contender.  And his absence is NOT the source of Boston's offensive problems, though LRH is right to cite his role as a breakway threat in changing the dynamic.  Much more important is the decline in offensive production from the D and the fact that the Krejci line hasn't finished the way it did last year (and Kessel had nothing to do with that - they're seeing the same level of checking and same D pairings when they're together in part because either Bergeron or Savard has been a bigger, more consistent threat).  The PP is also suffering, mostly from a lack of continuity after all the injuries - notice that it's much more successful since Savard's latest return?  Could the Bruins use 21 goals?  Sure.  Do they necessarily have to be from Phyllis?  Nope.  And if everything else stayed the same - same problems from the back end, same problems with injuries, same problems with the Krejci line - Kessel might have made a difference in 1 or 2 games tops.  That's the differential for a player I'm willing to guarantee flops in every playoff series against a team that can play a physical game. (Remember - great against the Shabs, invisible vs. the 'Canes?)
    Posted by Bookboy007


    Yo guy. He just turned 22 and is just figuring our what it takes to play properly in the NHL. He's been pampered by USA hockey, his parents, etc and I agree he's tough to warm up to but if you had a nut cut off you'd be a little grim also. When he fully matures both physically and mentally, he will be a force on whatever team he plays for. Its a shame for the B's that they voted him off the island for being shy.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from VT17BruinsFan. Show VT17BruinsFan's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    dave carr you obviously are just a jaded and bitter Bruins fan that is angry that Bruins management let another skilled scorer leave town. You are taking all your anger and frustration out on Kessel when you should be directing at this inept coach and GM

    Your lame and flawed attacks at Kessel through your black and gold colored glasses make you sound like a laughable fool. You're just like one of those "Thornton stinks, the Bruins are better off without him" pom pom wavers when he left town.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    In Response to Re: Toronto Record Tracker:
    Bookboy, i respectfully disagree, Kessel's absence, i feel,  is in part the reason for Boston's production being down this year. Or at the very least, the absence of someone who can accompany Savard on the wing. Posted by Davidorr


    Fair enough, but those are two different things.  My point is that I think Kessel would have been caught in the same malaise as the rest of this team, or that he'd get his goals, but they wouldn't make much of a difference given everything else this team has struggled with this year.  He can't make Wideman hit the net.  He can't make Chara stop handling the puck like its a live ferret.  He can't play Patrick Swayze to Ryder's Demi Moore and guide his hands when he's standing in front of the net so he doesn't blow chance after chance after chance.  He wouldn't improve Krejci's skating - because that's a lingering effect of his injury and not a confidence issue - or Lucic's.  He wouldn't overcome the injuries to Savard.

    What this team needed was for the players they have to play like the players they're paid to be and have been in the past.  Not one of them has really found his game for whatever reason - and watching them play against Kessel, I really doubt it's because they're pining for that Wisconsin cheese.  Maybe another goalscorer would help.  One who's mentally tough enough not to fall into the mire this team has been in.  Mentally tough, though - that ain't Phil.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    WOW   davcarr !  You went at it all day along with LRH .  Good work, I've been so busy at the office I haven't time type but you took the words away from my fingers today.  Thanks for supporting BADHAB.
    I checked the schedule and Leafs only play once before Olympic break ? Bad scheduling .  Anyways tough game against the Blues .
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    RHO - Oh, Leaf fans are happy now, but that little incident with Wilson calling Kessel out is only the first of many, and Leaf fans eat their own faster than Bruins fans.  I remember a vocal contingent wanting to send Gilmour to a glue factory the first year his numbers started to decline.  I remember them mocking Wendell Clark once his back went.  The first hint they get that maybe Burke overpaid, or that Kess is overpaid or that MLSE is introducing a seventh jersey they need to complete their Kessel collections, he'll start to hear it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    In Response to Re: Toronto Record Tracker:
    DaveCarr and Bim9: We certainly don't need any more threads on Kessel but when I read something stupid, you have to call it out. Kessel had 36 goals last year (only 11 player had more).  He has 21 and on pace for 38 this year
    Posted by LoveRealHockey



    First off, this isn't a new thread about Kessel, it's the Toronto Record Tracker, and that's what I posted about.

    Second, as my posts that started this flareup pointed out, Yes, Kessel scored in that game, but he also gave up a terrible giveaway and cost his team a goal. The team lost by 1. If he was a halfway decent two-way player, and didn't give up the puck, they would have gotten at least one point instead of none.

    So yes, the B's miss his goals. But what's the point of getting a goal from him if he's going to help give one up?

    You all throw out there how he is getting all these goals and assists, and how great he is, but has ANYONE mentioned that he's -2 for the year?

    So for all the goals he gets, he is on the ice when the other teams score MORE goals.  Take him out of the equation, and Toronto has +2 goal differential. Considering how many one goal games they've been in this year, that has to factor in.

    I don't miss him.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from LoveRealHockey. Show LoveRealHockey's posts

    Re: Toronto Record Tracker

    BadHab:

    I agree with you on all points.  Time will tell regarding Kessel and his NHL career but it looks good right now. 

    Tough not to take Hall if you get the chance.  I think he even looks like a Bruin already.

    Bim9:
    Hard to say where Kessel would have fit in this draft given his amateur record relative to other players.  I'm of the opinion that OHL stars are more NHL ready that US college players.  It showed early on, as BadHab pointed out.  I think he's maturing now and has already gone thru a lot.
    Not easy to compare across draft years but I'd like his chances at being top ten for sure.

    How about we see how long it takes Hall or Seguin to get their first 100 goals in the NHL.
     
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