Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulyboy. Show paulyboy's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton



    I disagree. They just won the cup so now is the time to do something they were always to afraid to do.  I have no issues with Hamilton and I am sure he will be ok, just want to see more offense from this team and was one of these people that did not like Juliens constant D fense first mentality.  I am happy for Julien, but see so much more from this team if they have a couple of players that can break things open on any shift.  I can  sleep good eithe way.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]There are a lot of weaknesses in the argument against drafting a stud defenseman, the biggest of them being that the champion of the argument (not NAS) is the GM of a franchise that gave up early on Chris Pronger and Jack Johnson.  GMs who can't be patient while a stud prospect grows into his feet are not going to see the reward. The second problem is how you go about choosing a player to draft.  I could see putting a handicap on a D and saying he has to be 10 or 15% better than the next forward on your board, but eventually you hit that handicap and you have to take the best player available.  I don't see a forward left on that board who looks like 80% of what Hamilton could be, so I like the pick. You can extend this to looking at who was available when those other D were picked.  Look at the 2004 top ten and tell me, with the full benefit of hindsight, which of those forwards Chicago should have taken?  Blake Wheeler?  And even if you wanted to say that Ottawa shouldn't have taken Brian Lee, well, there are maybe four or five guys who they might have considered and that would only really push him down to the bottom of the first half of the first round.  2006 was a great year in a lot of ways, but after Johnson at #1, the only other D to have a career so far are McBain (Carolina), Peckham (Edm.) and MacDonald (NYI).  Not a murderers row.  So D talent is generally thin on the ground - no surprise it's thinner in the D that the forward ranks. Third problem is that it's apples and oranges before and after the Cap.  Before the cap, you had outrageous demands with no context, hold-outs and other garbage.  Now you have cap restrictions and early free agency pushing teams to make Cap motivated deals (e.g. Barker).  Before, you could sign a blank cheque for Lidstrom or Bourque. Now, you have to find ways to keep them in fold.  GMs have responded to the new reality by playing young D earlier and they're responding.  Pietrangelo was 5th on the Blues in scoring, third in TOI, and the two D who played more than he did both got traded.  You might not think he's made an impact yet, but he's now being tabbed as their top D. Last for now - there are half as many NHL level D jobs as forward jobs.  That's a factor in assessing who stays with the team that drafts him and who gets moved and who gets stuck in the minors. Too many variables to correct for to take the raw data as predictive. and yeah, enough of those -ie endings.  No one whose name ends like that y sound like Dougie, or Denny, or Bobby, or Larry, will ever be a good defenseman.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    I really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sorry to be rude, but your statements border on incoherent. If you feel strongly about it, please re-write this because I want to understand.

    The bruins, having just won the stanley cup, have bought several years of apathy from their fan-base. If any team can afford to let a prospect develop, it is the reigning stanley cup champs--especially since their best player (Chara) was just signed to a long term contract at the position the prospect is.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]With so much D on this team and so much structure you would think that Murphy would have been welcomed. Where else to better fit in than in a system where D is first priority and a team that was in need of offense throughout the year, not to mention a power play QB.. Like Hamilton and not upset about the pick. Just looking at it as a time to take a chance on a kid that could really break up the entire opponents game and give Bs another dimension..
    Posted by paulyboy[/QUOTE]

    I think you also need to project into the future, looking past the Chara era.  You need that anchor shut-down D-man and Hamilton could be it.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]I disagree. They just won the cup so now is the time to do something they were always to afraid to do.  I have no issues with Hamilton and I am sure he will be ok, just want to see more offense from this team and was one of these people that did not like Juliens constant D fense first mentality.  I am happy for Julien, but see so much more from this team if they have a couple of players that can break things open on any shift.  I can  sleep good eithe way.
    Posted by paulyboy[/QUOTE]
    What do you mean by "afraid to do"? If anything, Boston has been burned over the years by making risky D picks, rather than taking the safe route with their picks. You say you're 1 of the people that doesn't like CJ's D first mentality. How do you feel about winning Stanley Cups then?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulyboy. Show paulyboy's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Understood, but Chara is under agreement for quite some time and the Bs appear to be throwing up some shutdown D already. It is not just Chara. This is what I cant stand about Julien. Too much D. I am being honest. I am very happy we won, but I was one of the people not agreeing with his style of play. Just want to see more offense.  Most of the bs offense was on muttled plays. There was no defensive zone pretty breakouts.  Seguin will die on the vine with this system. Again very happy with the cup, but looking to stay ahead of the curve.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]Understood, but Chara is under agreement for quite some time and the Bs appear to be throwing up some shutdown D already. It is not just Chara. This is what I cant stand about Julien. Too much D. I am being honest. I am very happy we won, but I was one of the people not agreeing with his style of play. Just want to see more offense.  Most of the bs offense was on muttled plays. There was no defensive zone pretty breakouts.  Seguin will die on the vine with this system. Again very happy with the cup, but looking to stay ahead of the curve.
    Posted by paulyboy[/QUOTE]

    They scored an average of 3.28 goals/game in the finals alone & allowed 1.15 & you're whinning about the defense & the offence??
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bob1957. Show bob1957's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I am a new poster who has been a bruins fan since 1969. I have been an avid reader of all the posts. Most of the posts are informative, some are childish but people do the best they can. The reason that I am posting is because not-a-shot posted that Luc Bourdon was "out of hockey". Unfortunately he is because he died in a motorcycle accident in 2008. That's why Burrows saluts him every time he scores. That is why people should do their research before posting!!

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Too much D!?!?!?  REALLY!?!?!?!  Did you WATCH the Bruins this year!?!?!?  Where were they league-wise in scoring?  How many goals did they score in the final seven game series when they WON the Stanley Cup!?  Come on man, you sound clueless.  This ISNT football.  Who cares if a goal is worth 1 point or 6?  Not us hockey fans, thats who.  I dont think the Bruins had ANY problem in offense this year.  You cant be number one in scoring every game, every year, and scoring doesnt always win you games OR the cup.  Just ask the Canucks.  Id rather win games 1-0 than lose them 10-9.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]I am a new poster who has been a bruins fan since 1969. I have been an avid reader of all the posts. Most of the posts are informative, some are childish but people do the best they can. The reason that I am posting is because not-a-shot posted that Luc Bourdon was "out of hockey". Unfortunately he is because he died in a motorcycle accident in 2008. That's why Burrows saluts him every time he scores. That is why people should do their research before posting!!
    Posted by bob1957[/QUOTE]

    I'm well aware of it.  I didn't want to type "dead" or "died" or "passed away".  I went with "out of hockey".  If you've avidly read these posts, you would have seen this:

    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : that's an understatement.
    Posted by goodnewsbears[/QUOTE]

    followed by this:

    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Yeah, I didn't want to make a big deal out of it, but wanted to make sure I included every player so I couldn't be accused of cherry picking.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Thanks.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I agree with Bookie, Crowlie, and Nassie -- it's time to go with "Doug" and play some big boy hockey.  It sounds ridiculous.

    I also think everybody knows about the Bourdon tragedy and NAS was probably trying to be polite.  Nobody would want to slight the guy.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruinsGENIUS. Show bruinsGENIUS's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Agree with the Dougie thing.

    Kinda like Pronger calling himself Chrissy.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I wouldnt be surprised to see Dougie Hamilton with the B's next season ...what about a pair of D's   Chara-Hamilton ??

    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I'm not above being incoherent, Olson, but I'm not sure what part of my previous post you don't understand.  But here is a crib sheet:

    Canes GM Jim Rutherford is usually the guy people quote regarding the long development of D prospects and how often they don't reach their potential with the team that drafted them.  This is the franchise that gave up on Pronger and Jack Johnson, so no wonder.

    Life is different pre- and post- cap so it's hard to compare the handling of development.  Recent trends seem to suggest teams are willing to throw stud D picks into the fire and get several years of NHL play out of them before they reach FA status.  Pietrangelo in St. Louis is another example.

    There are a lot of variables involved in where a player gets his shot above and beyond position, although D's a tougher position to crack in the NHL because there are fewer jobs.  You probably need to correct for that when comparing Forward to Defenseman starring with the teams that drafted them.

    Better?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]Recent trends seem to suggest teams are willing to throw stud D picks into the fire and get several years of NHL play out of them before they reach FA status.  Pietrangelo in St. Louis is another example. There are a lot of variables involved in where a player gets his shot above and beyond position, although D's a tougher position to crack in the NHL because there are fewer jobs.  You probably need to correct for that when comparing Forward to Defenseman starring with the teams that drafted them. Better?
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    hmm, i'm still working out this one in my head, it doesn't make sense to me. If this is true, defensemen are generally forced into the NHL before they are ready so teams can give up on them after their rookie deals. What gets me about this concept is how poorly it works out for everyone involved. The player's growth is jeopardized, the team doesn't fix its issues on defense and will have to squander more resources filling the vacancy after their exploited prospect is shipped out of town.

    The idea that teams would act in a manner that compromises their long-term interests just strikes me as false. I could be wrong though, if you could explain what the benefit/necessity is in rushing a young defensemen to the NHL, that may help me understand.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    This is unreal, NAS and Cactus Tony are the only bruins fans hating this draft pick.  You are more alike than you both think (it's just NAS is clearly smarter, and not 100% Bruins hater)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : hmm, i'm still working out this one in my head, it doesn't make sense to me. If this is true, defensemen are generally forced into the NHL before they are ready so teams can give up on them after their rookie deals. What gets me about this concept is how poorly it works out for everyone involved. The player's growth is jeopardized, the team doesn't fix its issues on defense and will have to squander more resources filling the vacancy after their exploited prospect is shipped out of town. The idea that teams would act in a manner that compromises their long-term interests just strikes me as false. I could be wrong though, if you could explain what the benefit/necessity is in rushing a young defensemen to the NHL, that may help me understand.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    I think I see the disconnect(s), O.

    I'm not trying to prescribe a theory, I'm describing what the GMs are actually doing with top 15 pick D since 2008.  Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, and even Schenn have either been in the NHL as regulars since day one or have come on in year two or three and become top 3 D on their teams.  Bogosian's "difficulties" have been documented, but we'll see what happens with the new coaching and management regimes because he certainly looked like he was a stud.  Myers has a Calder, Karlsson's a mainstay on the Ottawa PP.  That's 5 of 6 D in the top 15 with 100 NHL games already in the books (Teubert's the exception).  Next year, Hedman stepped right in, Ekman-Larsson has already played half a season, and Kulikov in Florida stepped right in.  Nick Leddy was a key piece in the trade for Barker and got half a year in in Chicago.  Cowan, deHaan, and Ellis will all get a real shot next year with six years to FA status to go, but even then, that's 50% in the NHL a year after the draft.  Only Fowler made it from last year's blue chip D, but last year was the year when we really saw the Rutherford plan kick in across the league.

    So my point is that generally, teams who take the blue chip D treat them like blue chip prospects and get them to the show quickly for all sorts of reasons - the post-lock-out style of play, the cap, a change in attitude toward rookie D.  They're going to get multiple contracts out of these guys.  This isn't about "giving up on them after their rookie deals" - you're getting two parts of the story mixed up.  Blue chip D reach their potential on their second or third team when the drafting team gives up too soon - i.e. pre-free-agency - or when the right deal comes along - Stewart and Captain ShatnerKirk for Johnson is the right deal.

    Help?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : What gets me about this concept is how poorly it works out for everyone involved. The player's growth is jeopardized, the team doesn't fix its issues on defense and will have to squander more resources filling the vacancy after their exploited prospect is shipped out of town. The idea that teams would act in a manner that compromises their long-term interests just strikes me as false..Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    Ols, You don't frequent here as much as you used too so it might be a little harder to whip through the long version of his point. Bookboy has wanted PC for sometime to every once in awhile grab a high end  Canadian Junior Defensman via the draft or trade that might take awhile to develop because Chiarelli has taken pretty much college defenseman whom have already been in another organization with the exception of McQuaid or Boychuk who were in another organization but didn't go the college route.

    You won't see this that often from Chiarelli because of a pattern set. So when Boston grabs that Hamilton type once every 4 years or so Peter is confident in his selection and can go grab a Boychuk type when that Bruins scout likes what he sees if Hamilton starts to flounder.

    Chiarelli broke his pattern in this case he had to because of Hamilton's upside. This is what I see Bookboy likes instead of always sending scouts to the Big Ten college hockey games all the time.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : I think I see the disconnect(s), O. I'm not trying to prescribe a theory, I'm describing what the GMs are actually doing with top 15 pick D since 2008.  Doughty, Bogosian, Pietrangelo, and even Schenn have either been in the NHL as regulars since day one or have come on in year two or three and become top 3 D on their teams.  Bogosian's "difficulties" have been documented, but we'll see what happens with the new coaching and management regimes because he certainly looked like he was a stud.  Myers has a Calder, Karlsson's a mainstay on the Ottawa PP.  That's 5 of 6 D in the top 15 with 100 NHL games already in the books (Teubert's the exception).  Next year, Hedman stepped right in, Ekman-Larsson has already played half a season, and Kulikov in Florida stepped right in.  Nick Leddy was a key piece in the trade for Barker and got half a year in in Chicago.  Cowan, deHaan, and Ellis will all get a real shot next year with six years to FA status to go, but even then, that's 50% in the NHL a year after the draft.  Only Fowler made it from last year's blue chip D, but last year was the year when we really saw the Rutherford plan kick in across the league. So my point is that generally, teams who take the blue chip D treat them like blue chip prospects and get them to the show quickly for all sorts of reasons - the post-lock-out style of play, the cap, a change in attitude toward rookie D.  They're going to get multiple contracts out of these guys.  This isn't about "giving up on them after their rookie deals" - you're getting two parts of the story mixed up.  Blue chip D reach their potential on their second or third team when the drafting team gives up too soon - i.e. pre-free-agency - or when the right deal comes along - Stewart and Captain ShatnerKirk for Johnson is the right deal. Help?
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]


    ahhhh , I see what you mean. Makes sense. thanks for the clarification. So, with that being said, how long do you think until Hamilton is wearing the spoked-B?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    We once had Bobby Orr ...later we got Ray Bourque ...we now habe Zdeno ...and we will be in business for the next 20 years with Dougie ! ! !
    Welcome Dougie with the Stanley Cup champs....just like Tyler you will win the Stanley Cup at 19 years old ...

    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013


     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    3 years.  2 if they think he's an upgrade on Ference, Boychuk, or McQuaid.  He has to make the big squad out of camp or he's a junior for the next two years.  I'm fine with this in part because the FA calendar's the same if he plays as an 18 year old or a 20 year old - they have that 27 or 7 years NHL experience provision for UFA eligibility.

    I'm also fine with it because it looks like Boston's "luck" is starting to resemble Detroits or NJ's or any of the teams that have won regularly over the last twenty years.  How many times have you heard commentators say the rich get richer because the Devils or Wings drafted a guy other people probably should have?  The two that pop into my head are Jiri Fischer and Jiri Hudler in Detroit.  Both guys should have gone higher, but they fell to Detroit because other GMs were trying to outsmart everyone.  Parise in Jersey...same deal.  Gionta.  When you build a Cup winning team, you have the luxury of drafting the blue chipper who may take a bit of time to reach full potential.  Others want more sooner.  And they fail more often because of it.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49thparallel. Show 49thparallel's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    i just read through 9 pages and still didn't see who NAS wanted PC to draft. Did he ever post that?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Thanks for this stat bigskye, it's finally something relevant on the issue of drafting D men high.  Listing D that are no longer with their team is irrelevant to the arguement.  Showing that forwards are twice as likely to still be with their team is somewhat relevant.  It still doesn't tell you what kind of impact the forwards are having for their team, or what kind of return teams got for trading their D.  There are lots of other factors in play.  The past only tells you so much.  An ongoing trend in the NHL is locking up players long term so they never reach free agency.  Early post lockout there were dozens of high end players that were UFA and a team could grab a chara and a savard on one day.  It's getting harder now, and the Bruins could really use a high end talent to emerg as Chara's play declines.  Drafting may be the only way.  I like the pick.

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]   I have to admit that Not-A-Shot has a valid point on this issue. I looked at the years 2000-2007, and the stats look like this... TOTAL TOP 10 DRAFTED FORWARDS = 43 FORWARDS STILL PLAYING ON ORIGINAL TEAM = 15 A 35% rate TOTAL TOP 10 DRAFTED D-MEN = 18 D-MEN STILL PLAYING ON ORIGINAL TEAM = 3 A 17% rate This is all very subjective. It does not take into account what teams got in return for trading prospects, or what was available at the draft table, at the time a certain player was selected. It does, however, support Not-A-Shot's assertion, that a d-man has less of a chance to have a long-term future with the team drafting him, than a forward does.
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Yes, life is sh*t.
    The Bruins win the Cup, Thomas bags the Conn Smythe and the Bruins have an excellent looking future given their youth which has only been further added to with the acquisition of Dougie Hamilton. Seems like everyone knows this but NAS.
    Almost as bad a trawling through all the trolls here a few weeks ago.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from LUCICmilan17. Show LUCICmilan17's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]We once had Bobby Orr ...later we got Ray Bourque ...we now habe Zdeno ...and we will be in business for the next 20 years with Dougie ! ! ! Welcome Dougie with the Stanley Cup champs....just like Tyler you will win the Stanley Cup at 19 years old ... Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013 Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013 Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013 Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013 Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013 Stanley Cup to the BRUINS in 2011-2012-2013
    Posted by StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011[/QUOTE]



    Fing right stanley!
     

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