Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton :    I understand what you are saying. It's really all about numbers. It is always easier to have a drafted player make your team if he is a forward, rather than a d-man, simply because there is twice as many opportunities at that position. I looked at the years from 2005-2009, and high-drafted D-men (not named Johnson), seem to be playing important roles on the teams that drafted them.    Players like; MARC STAAL, DREW DOUGHTY, ALEX PIETERANGELO, LUKE SCHENN, ZACK BOGOSIAN, TYLER MYERS, ERIC KARLSON, and VICTOR HEDMAN all came from only about a total of about 15 players that were drafted in the top dozen, in those years. If you throw out the 2007 year, where everyone stunk, the percentage gets even better. I don't have a problem with Boston taking a D-man with a top 10 pick. Now, if they had taken a goalie, there would have been some cursing, on my part.
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for listing those players.  We'll see where they are playing in a few years.  I didn't list those years because mostly they haven't developed enough to know what they'll be and/or haven't even finished their first contract yet so they don't really fit into the conversation.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I love how, in order to try to bury me in this one, people have now decided the whipping boy Luke Schenn is a great defenseman.

     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]I love how, in order to try to bury me in this one, people have now decided the whipping boy Luke Schenn is a great defenseman.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
    I'm not looking to bury anyone when I say I like Schenn and would like to see him play for Boston.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]B*tch. Whine. B*tch. Whine.  Julien's crap. Flip Flop Tuna Thomas. The Bs will win nothing with Jacobs. Kaberle will lose the cup for the Bs. Kelly adds nothing. Hamilton will be  a bust or will never play for the Bs. Blah, Blah, Blah. Sound familiar? And where did it get you?   Some of you guys really need to change the record. Yeah, some of the first round D picks have been pretty ropey but where/how exactly did the Bs acquire Orr and Bourque? Exactly. Now listen. Acquiring Hamilton was a no brainer and the best choice the Bs could have made as the #9 pick. Next!  
    Posted by Hanrahan1[/QUOTE]


    Feel free to keep reading my posts, Hanrahan.   You're off the mark here.

    Oh, and if you think the B's drafted Bobby Orr, you clearly don't know very much about hockey history, so try to avoid attempting to discuss it, will ya?  Makes you look stupid.  Next!
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    I'd still like to know who NAS thinks the B's SHOULD HAVE picked.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : How's that working out for Washington and Mike Green?
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Maybe, if Mike Green had 80 points his draft year, we could have this discussion.

    Since Murphy's a smaller guy his development will probably be more visible before Hamilton's will.  So, we'll have to wait and see.  But, I think Murphy will be the better defensemen in the long run.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]I'd still like to know who NAS thinks the B's SHOULD HAVE picked.
    Posted by jalvis[/QUOTE]

    There are many different routes they could have taken.  They could have traded the pick for a player.  They could have traded the pick with a player for another player.  They could have moved up.  They could have moved down.

    After following the draft for the past 20 years, I know it's a fool's game to think anyone knows who will turn into what.

    I do know that drafting a defensmen in the Top 10 is generally a bad idea, so I wish the B's hadn't done that.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : 2008 wasn't left out.  I went back 10 years and listed four years.  This point would be valid if I had listed '06, '07 and '09.  Then you could say I left out '08. I didn't.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Cherry picker! lol
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : There are many different routes they could have taken.  They could have traded the pick for a player.  They could have traded the pick with a player for another player.  They could have moved up.  They could have moved down. After following the draft for the past 20 years, I know it's a fool's game to think anyone knows who will turn into what. I do know that drafting a defensmen in the Top 10 is generally a bad idea, so I wish the B's hadn't done that.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    I wasn't opposed to trading the pick either.  But in my previous post I mentioned  how the 2011 draft was breaking down:  and it appeared that a run on defensemen was the key.  Like I said, 7 of the 9 defensemen picked in the 1st round after Hamilton were picked between picks 10 - 20.  It seemed like it was a defenseman top heavy draft.....and the B's picked one of if not THE best defenseman in the draft.  A position that they certainly needed.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : There are many different routes they could have taken.  They could have traded the pick for a player.  They could have traded the pick with a player for another player.  They could have moved up.  They could have moved down. After following the draft for the past 20 years, I know it's a fool's game to think anyone knows who will turn into what. I do know that drafting a defensmen in the Top 10 is generally a bad idea, so I wish the B's hadn't done that.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    So, your answer is...you have no answer.  Just a critique, based on your observations over a 20 year period following the draft?

    Not fact based observation, more gut feel? Myself and other posters have provided a half-dozen d-men that are making contributions to their draft teams just in the last 4 years as the counter-argument.

    I have never seen Hamilton play, but it sure sounds like the "experts" like his game and how he projects into the NHL. Others, out here in the forum have seen him play and seem to concur with the experts. Based on these two informed constituencies, I am excited about the pick.

    Don't let this be your Kabanov moment NAS, unless you have seen this kid play and can identify flaws in his game that don't translate to the NHL. You are doing exactly what you criticize many others for, passing judgements on players that they want the B's to pick, even though they have never seen them play.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : There are many different routes they could have taken.  They could have traded the pick for a player.  They could have traded the pick with a player for another player.  They could have moved up.  They could have moved down. After following the draft for the past 20 years, I know it's a fool's game to think anyone knows who will turn into what. I do know that drafting a defensmen in the Top 10 is generally a bad idea, so I wish the B's hadn't done that.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Go look at LWs for the same 10-year span and you'll see similar results. A few good ones, a bunch of misses and a few guys who moved to other teams. Looking at the 10-year span I get the sense that the safest pick is center. The riskiest is goalie for sure.


     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Checked out after Toronto made the 25th pick last night and this seems the place to go to make comments about the first round.

    I am really happy with the Hamilton pick. Like NAS says, D-men are risky picks and that has been acknowledged by PC and many on this board, but when a guy like Hamilton is available, I don't think you can pass him up. Consensus number 2 d-man in the draft and some say not much worse than Larsson.

    NAS makes a great point with the history of drafting D-men early, but what encourages me about this player in particular are his bloodlines/ natural work ethic (Both parents Olympians...kind of like Chara), his size (will always be at least 6'4, maybe bigger, at least 200 lbs), his intelligence (94% average????), and the character it takes to put in that kind of effort in school when you've got a blossoming NHL career on your plate. After watching how smart and gritty a game the Bruins played to win the Cup, and in light of the fact we need a stud d-man, this pick was definitely worth it.

    Also, consider that Brent Burns, a Hamilton comparison, got traded last night for Setoguchi, a very good prospect, and an upgraded draft pick. So even if we can't afford him down the line as NAS fears, we can Kessel him and get better still.

    All in all, very, very happy with the pick.


     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : There are many different routes they could have taken.  They could have traded the pick for a player.  They could have traded the pick with a player for another player.  They could have moved up.  They could have moved down. After following the draft for the past 20 years, I know it's a fool's game to think anyone knows who will turn into what. I do know that drafting a defensmen in the Top 10 is generally a bad idea, so I wish the B's hadn't done that.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    After seeing Matt Lashoff and Zach Hamill recently, I just think that the busts are everywhere (even in the top ten) and the Bruins should take the best available.  Hamilton was projected even higher, so as soon as Philly took Coutourier I was satisfied with Hamilton.  Too hard to debate much on it now.  The Bruins seem fairly deep with forward prospects for the moment too, so I'm okay with taking a shot at a top D-man who fell to #9.  

    Between Hamilton, Alexandrov, Button, Bartkowski, Cohen, Cross, and Warsofsky the Bruins just need 3 guys to make the team in the next 3-4 years and they will look smart...
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]I love how, in order to try to bury me in this one, people have now decided the whipping boy Luke Schenn is a great defenseman.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]
    Luke Schenn is not yet a great defenseman, but he's getting there.  Saw pretty much every Leaf game and he looks like the real deal in terms of a physical shutdown dman with some offense to contribute.  Pretty much the only untouchable on the Leafs.

    The draft where Schenn was selected was a bit of an anomoly given the thhe number of dmen that were selected in the 1st round, all of which have the potential to be really good; most are good now.


    In the end, the draft is always a crap shoot beyond the first few picks (with exceptions ofcourse).  I think based on what was available and what the Bruins were looking to fill, they made a good choice.

    Anything can happen, but picks are based on scouting reports, need and perceived potential.

    I've seen Hamilton play a few games and was impressed.  Certainly not enough of a sample to know one way or the other.  Gotta like the size and mobility though...

    Time will tell.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton


    1) I have faith in the Bruins mgmnt, they've made some pretty good moves.  Some of PC's draft choices have come to fruition like Marchand and Hamill and soon to be whipping boy #2 Tommy Cross were early on.

    But still, overall the Bruins wisdom in trades has some crossover to drafting in that they are looking for specfic character and playing traits that resulted in a winning combination.

    2) The odds are against this choice, but that doesn't mean it still won't work out.  If past history equalled the future perfectly there would never be a bad draft choice, ever, and for that matter stock picks would always work out, too.

    History does not necessarily reflect the future.

    3) Luck.  It does seem to be going the Bruins way.  Lucky and bad luck tend to clump - just like random numbers.  Random numbers do not typically happen at evenly spaced intervals, they tend to clump together.  The Bruins are 'on a roll' as the gamblers say.

    4) Betting for or against Hamilton?  Would you bet your life on it either way?  I wouldn't.  We'll see.  It will take 10 months at least to have any idea if even there is anything in 10 months.

    I wouldn't mind seeing another Kyle McLaren. 

    I wouldn't mind seeing another Gord Kluzak with good knees.

    And he might be traded for some decent return, another way this might end up being a positive.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Between Hamilton, Alexandrov, Button, Bartkowski, Cohen, Cross, and Warsofsky the Bruins just need 3 guys to make the team in the next 3-4 years and they will look smart...
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    Agreed......and I think that is certainly possible.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : So, your answer is...you have no answer.  Just a critique, based on your observations over a 20 year period following the draft? Not fact based observation, more gut feel? Myself and other posters have provided a half-dozen d-men that are making contributions to their draft teams just in the last 4 years as the counter-argument. I have never seen Hamilton play, but it sure sounds like the "experts" like his game and how he projects into the NHL. Others, out here in the forum have seen him play and seem to concur with the experts. Based on these two informed constituencies, I am excited about the pick. Don't let this be your Kabanov moment NAS, unless you have seen this kid play and can identify flaws in his game that don't translate to the NHL. You are doing exactly what you criticize many others for, passing judgements on players that they want the B's to pick, even though they have never seen them play.
    Posted by Crowls2424[/QUOTE]

    Once again, Crowls, you are basing your post on my feelings toward Hamilton as a player.  I have not made one statement about him as a player.

    Defensemen drafted in the previous four years have not had a chance to move (for the most part), and therefore don't really come into play.

    No gut feeling.  Feel free to review the previous drafts and see for yourself.  Top rated defensemen generally turn out to be great for some other team or are busts.  It's not "every single one of them", and I haven't stated that it is.  It's "most". 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : One player drafted by one team outside of the Top 10 disproves my theory that defensemen drafted in the Top 10 are more likely to shine for other teams or be busts?  Huh?
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    You're saying to remember this when we're all wrong .  Your line is as relevant as " Proof enough..... you're smarter than that to use old stats (that favor only your argument) and say you will be right and to come back on this thread when you are right ?
    LOL  NAS... please. 
    You think out of the box most of the time and in this debate you're so deep in your box.
    Thinking within the box the Bruins trailing the series 2-0 to the Habs they don't come back and win.  Winning 3 games 7 in one playoffs doesn't happen...
    Like I said neither you or me have really seen what this kid can do. You could be right and if he was a kid coming out of your backyard I might stand for your argument a little stronger. Not saying your wrong but...
    Someone that has seen him thinks this is a great pick.  I think I'll go with what he says.
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Once again, Crowls, you are basing your post on my feelings toward Hamilton as a player.  I have not made one statement about him as a player. Defensemen drafted in the previous four years have not had a chance to move (for the most part), and therefore don't really come into play. No gut feeling.  Feel free to review the previous drafts and see for yourself.  Top rated defensemen generally turn out to be great for some other team or are busts.  It's not "every single one of them", and I haven't stated that it is.  It's "most". 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    OKay I can agree here .  Still a stat that doesn't mean it'll become a fact.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Crowls2424. Show Crowls2424's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Once again, Crowls, you are basing your post on my feelings toward Hamilton as a player.  I have not made one statement about him as a player. Defensemen drafted in the previous four years have not had a chance to move (for the most part), and therefore don't really come into play. No gut feeling.  Feel free to review the previous drafts and see for yourself.  Top rated defensemen generally turn out to be great for some other team or are busts.  It's not "every single one of them", and I haven't stated that it is.  It's "most". 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    NAS, you are too funny.

    Can't you just see PC and the crew sitting in the war-room fretting about this? 

    PC:  "Oh no, it looks like Hamilton might slide to us at #9"
    Cam: "Don't trade up for him, you know these early d-man picks have such a high fail-rate"
    PC: "I'm hoping Philly takes him so we can get another center"

    I gave you a half-dozen examples over just the last four years, you don't want to acknowledge that.   I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    Because no one can seem to do their own research, here's another block of draft results:

    2004:  #3 Cam Barker (traded), #9 Ladislav Smid (traded), #10 Boris Valabik (traded and awful)

    2005:  #3 Jack Johnson (traded), #9 Brian Lee (not impressive), #10 Luc Bourdon (out of hockey)

    2006:  #1 Erik Johnson (traded)

    2007:  #4 Thomas Hickey (AHL), #5 Karl Alzner (no impact yet), #10 Keaton Ellerby (who?)

    2008:  #2 Doughty (beast), #3 Bogosian (stock falling), #4 Alex Pietragnelo (no impact yet), #5 Luke Schenn (whipping boy here until this thread was created, I'm a fan of his, I think he'll turn into a hard hitting defensive d-man similar to Derian Hatcher).

    2009 and 2010 are too soon to be judged.

    If we combine these years with the ones previous listed

    2000:  #4 Rusty Klesla #7 Lars Jonsson

    2001:  #8 Komisarek

    2002:  #3 Bouwmeester, #4 Joni Pitkanen, #5 Ryan Whitney

    2003:  7,8,9:  Suter, Coburn, Phaneuf

    we have 23 defensemen listed with only Suter and Doughty (and maybe Schenn, possibly Bogosian if he can fix his issues) playing for the team that drafted them and playing well.

    There are your facts, boys and girl.  You, too, can use the internet to do research.  Instead of attacking me, bring the facts.  That's what I do. 
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Maybe, if Mike Green had 80 points his draft year, we could have this discussion. Since Murphy's a smaller guy his development will probably be more visible before Hamilton's will.  So, we'll have to wait and see.  But, I think Murphy will be the better defensemen in the long run.
    Posted by bim09[/QUOTE]
    Bim, my point is that teaching D isn't as easy as some people think. Learning systems and being strong enough to execute them doesn't come natural to every player. I guess we'll eventually see how this works out although it seems likely that both teams got a good player..
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]Because no one can seem to do their own research, here's another block of draft results: 2004:  #3 Cam Barker (traded), #9 Ladislav Smid (traded), #10 Boris Valabik (traded and awful) 2005:  #3 Jack Johnson (traded), #9 Brian Lee (not impressive), #10 Luc Bourdon (out of hockey) 2006:  #1 Erik Johnson (traded) 2007:  #4 Thomas Hickey (AHL), #5 Karl Alzner (no impact yet), #10 Keaton Ellerby (who?) 2008:  #2 Doughty (beast), #3 Bogosian (stock falling), #4 Alex Pietragnelo (no impact yet), #5 Luke Schenn (whipping boy here until this thread was created, I'm a fan of his, I think he'll turn into a hard hitting defensive d-man similar to Derian Hatcher). 2009 and 2010 are too soon to be judged. If we combine these years with the ones previous listed 2000:  #4 Rusty Klesla #7 Lars Jonsson 2001:  #8 Komisarek 2002:  #3 Bouwmeester, #4 Joni Pitkanen, #5 Ryan Whitney 2003:  7,8,9:  Suter, Coburn, Phaneuf we have 23 defensemen listed with only Suter and Doughty (and maybe Schenn, possibly Bogosian if he can fix his issues) playing for the team that drafted them and playing well. There are your facts, boys and girl.  You, too, can use the internet to do research.  Instead of attacking me, bring the facts.  That's what I do. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Much too lazy to put the time and effort you obviously have into this.  You must have started as soon as it was clear the Bruins were targeting a defenseman. 

    The stat I'd like to see, and I'm sure you have it in your notes somewhere, is how many players drafted in the top ten in the last ten years made an impact with the team they drafted.  Then see how many where forwards and defensemen.  If there is a statistically significant difference then there is something to this. 
    All I've seen so far from both sides of this is citing random examples.  Means nothing. 
    Since the only sane people in the world to do the above either work for central scouting or a NHL team, I'm going to assume they did that and Dougie Hamilton is a good pick. 
    For the record....I think this is a huge pick for the B's.  I liked him half way through last season, but as the Leaf's climbed and Hamilton's stock rose, I didn't think there was much chance.  Considering the Bruins depth at forward this is a great pick. 
     
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    Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton

    In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Welcome to the Bruins Dougie Hamilton : Bim, my point is that teaching D isn't as easy as some people think. Learning systems and being strong enough to execute them doesn't come natural to every player. I guess we'll eventually see how this works out although it seems likely that both teams got a good player..
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    That's one of the reasons I like this kid, he's smart and can learn the details of the game.
     

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