What are Enforcers for?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    What are Enforcers for?

    I always thought that Enforcers were there to take care of guys like Cooke. They were there to Police and make sure that these dirty hits were strongly discouraged. So why isn't he stopped? Why isn't someone 'filling him in' and making sure that he understands that there is a price to be paid for his dirty shots. The Shawn Thorton / Matt Cooke "Showdown" was a total joke. In fact it almost made the B's look worse than if nothing was done, in my opinion. Nothing against Thorton, but what exactly is he needed for if he can't even the score with Cooke.

    You could say the "Instigator Rule" is there to stop the "frontier justice", but it is only a 2 minute penalty, as compared to loosing one of your better players. A team like the B's that kills penalties so well should be taking more liberties, or at least defending their players with a little more gusto. To see Cooke and Pittsburgh get off so lightly is insulting. We lost Savard, and he got a slap on the wrist.

    What Cooke did last night was criminal. Again. 

    So what is the need for an Enforcer, other than to go toe to toe with the other team's Enforcer? 

    Sad statement on the NHL. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    This has been on my list for some time now.  Guys like Cooke don't care if it is Mike Tyson on skates coming to settle a score.  He does what he does and will do it, enforcer be damned.  Having someone like Thornton on your team to prevent 'liberties' from being taken with your stars just doesn't seem to work anymore.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    perry,

    I thought the same thing when Thorton and Cooke fought.  I thought it made us look bad.  What should have happened was that everytime he was on the ice we had someone that would drop the gloves with him.  I mean everytime all night.  I don't care if it was a throw away game where we were in the box all night killing penalties.  He doesnt wanna fight then make him turtle every single time...or start stuff with his linemates to draw him in and then punish him.

    I like Crosby.  I think he is great for the league and also happens be born and raised in the same area that I am from.  But if Lucic starts fash washing Crosby and Chara does teh same with Malkin then Cooke has to respond.  When that happens.  You make him pay.  Maybe then Sid and Malkin would tell him to stop running people.

    I can't wait until someone finishes him.  Problem is the league protects rats like him instead of the stars of the game.  If this happened to Gretzky, Mcsorely or Semenko would have dealt with it.  They were there to be suspended.  But he likely wouldnt do it again. 

    I am actually good friends with Glenn Murray and when he was in his 1st couple yrs with the Bruins he caught Messier(who could have handled himself) with a good hit.  Graves, Kocur and Jeff B all told him he was a dead man.  Murray didnt hit Mess again. 

    In todays league that respect doesnt exist.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostondynNASTY. Show bostondynNASTY's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]perry, I thought the same thing when Thorton and Cooke fought.  I thought it made us look bad.  What should have happened was that everytime he was on the ice we had someone that would drop the gloves with him.  I mean everytime all night.  I don't care if it was a throw away game where we were in the box all night killing penalties.  He doesnt wanna fight then make him turtle every single time...or start stuff with his linemates to draw him in and then punish him. I like Crosby.  I think he is great for the league and also happens be born and raised in the same area that I am from.  But if Lucic starts fash washing Crosby and Chara does teh same with Malkin then Cooke has to respond.  When that happens.  You make him pay.  Maybe then Sid and Malkin would tell him to stop running people. I can't wait until someone finishes him.  Problem is the league protects rats like him instead of the stars of the game.  If this happened to Gretzky, Mcsorely or Semenko would have dealt with it.  They were there to be suspended.  But he likely wouldnt do it again.  I am actually good friends with Glenn Murray and when he was in his 1st couple yrs with the Bruins he caught Messier(who could have handled himself) with a good hit.  Graves, Kocur and Jeff B all told him he was a dead man.  Murray didnt hit Mess again.  In todays league that respect doesnt exist.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Couldnt agree with you more.  GREAT POST
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]perry, I thought the same thing when Thorton and Cooke fought.  I thought it made us look bad.  What should have happened was that everytime he was on the ice we had someone that would drop the gloves with him.  I mean everytime all night.  I don't care if it was a throw away game where we were in the box all night killing penalties.  He doesnt wanna fight then make him turtle every single time...or start stuff with his linemates to draw him in and then punish him. I like Crosby.  I think he is great for the league and also happens be born and raised in the same area that I am from.  But if Lucic starts fash washing Crosby and Chara does teh same with Malkin then Cooke has to respond.  When that happens.  You make him pay.  Maybe then Sid and Malkin would tell him to stop running people. I can't wait until someone finishes him.  Problem is the league protects rats like him instead of the stars of the game.  If this happened to Gretzky, Mcsorely or Semenko would have dealt with it.  They were there to be suspended.  But he likely wouldnt do it again.  I am actually good friends with Glenn Murray and when he was in his 1st couple yrs with the Bruins he caught Messier(who could have handled himself) with a good hit.  Graves, Kocur and Jeff B all told him he was a dead man.  Murray didnt hit Mess again.  In todays league that respect doesnt exist.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    If you thought Thorntons revenge on Cooke was weak,you really would've laughed at the Pitts attempt at revenge on Steckel.A kid in his 1st NHL game has what amounts to a wrestling match with Steckel.It was weak at best but it did show me that issues with revenge weren't solely exclusive to the Bruins locker room.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    apparently,for the bruins they are used to change the momentum of the game- very few guys have fought to protect a teammate this year- i can count those fights on one hand. is this a league wide trend?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    adk,

    If this is true the dirty hits will never end.  Unless the players start using the elbows/sticks to protect themselves.  Personally to me I think a lot of the hits are borderline.  But also believe that some are just hockey plays.  There is a difference with an intent to  injure and just finishing a check.  If someone gets their bell rung from a solid hit I have no issue with it. 

    I don't want the league littered with skating clowns as NAS puts it.  But I think there is a lot more that needs to be done in terms of this. 
    Start suspending them.  set standard.
    1st offense- 5 games
    2nd offense- 10 games.
    3rd offense- suspended for the year.

    If they are repeat offenders like Cooke they should start at 10 games. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    Enforcers as described are not needed on any team, so let's get rid of them and start with Thornton. Not his fault, but, his skills are not NHL caliber. The Bruins have guys who respond to cheap hits, even Kreji has done it. So, dump Thornton and forget about benching Seguin just because Claude and Goeff Ward haven't  a clue how to integrate this kids ' skills at the NHL level. Put him on a wing, like Bergie inhis first year, and let him play regularly with consistent linemates. Claude's shuffling has only enhanced confusion. Tonight , against a fast skating team they are benching one of their fastest skaters, who also has an excellent snapshot.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kennedy97. Show Kennedy97's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    Enforcers will be as useful as an appendix as long as the instigator rule remains in effect, and the NHL continues to want the game "family friendly". (And we all know that nothing is more "family friendly" than allowing guys who habitually make hits that end seasons/careers to skate around without fear of being pounded into mush by a Joe Kocur or Chris Nilan.)
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]adk, If this is true the dirty hits will never end.  Unless the players start using the elbows/sticks to protect themselves.  Personally to me I think a lot of the hits are borderline.  But also believe that some are just hockey plays.  There is a difference with an intent to  injure and just finishing a check.  If someone gets their bell rung from a solid hit I have no issue with it.  
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    I agree. I like good solid hits, but it is funny how players seem to respond to one of their teammates getting hit by a clean hard check, but do nothing for a dirty hit. 

    I guess a few more top-end players are going to be seriously hurt before the league does something about the extreme violence that is happening. 

    The only thing I can trace this trend of concussions, and serious injuries is to the changes made that removed the Redline, and stopped the hooking in the neutral zone. The speed has picked up dramatically, and boys will be boys, and will hit anything they can, as hard as they can. Add in the Equipment, and you have a recipe for disaster.



     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    Perry,

    You are bang on in terms of the new rules.  The open ice creates a faster game as does the no hold up for your partner rule.  That coupled with the size, strength and speed of these players and you have a recipe for dissaster.  Someone will get killed. 

    Personally. I like the red line gone.  But I truly believe that a dman must have the right to hold up for his partner. 

    Anyway, I know the league is trying to make this sport catch on in the stats.  Problem is the are taking a lot of the aspects out of the game that made it hockey
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    there is a place in the game for the enforcer. there is a reason they are referred to as "beat cops"-  teams should not be able to replace the suspended player during his absence-the TEAM has to play short-handed(not the pk-down a man on the active roster). what else can be done to get to eliminate these bums from the game?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    adk,

    I like that idea a lot. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    There are no enforcers in the NHL.  There are good hockey players who will fight when they get angry and there are Skating Clowns who will fight other Skating Clowns because they can't do much of anything else.

    And don't get on me for Shawn Thornton.  Nobody fears his retribution.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]there is a place in the game for the enforcer. there is a reason they are referred to as "beat cops"-  teams should not be able to replace the suspended player during his absence-the TEAM has to play short-handed(not the pk-down a man on the active roster). what else can be done to get to eliminate these bums from the game?
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]
    Have team owners pay the fines instead of the players.Once owners start feeling  it in the pocketbook,they may be less likely to sign a player considered to be a risk to offend(MATT COOKE).
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    NAS

    Whats shaking dude.

    Skating Clowns...still love that term.  Do you believe the players in the 80-90's were skating clowns or enforcers.  Mcsorely for example.  did he start as a skating clown and move into the enforcer role?  Some guys when given the chance actually do progress into useful players.  I mean some guys with skill who can't make it on that alone turn into enforcers. 
    For me a guy like Boogieman is a hockey side show.  Zero skill.  I mean all we need to do is get Shaq on skates and we would win the freak show contest. 

    I agree with you on this topic in length.  But I also believe there are some grey areas.  For me I sure would want a guy like McSorely or Probie.  But wouldnt want Scott or Boogie. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    People tend to forget that Marty McSorley was a good defenseman.  He was never a first pairing guy (skill-wise), but was certainly a second pairing guy.  He could skate and he could pass.

    Skating Clown = an NHL player that would be without an NHL job if fighting were banned.

    The guys in the 80's and early part of the 90's, for the most part, were okay hockey players also. Guys like Joe Kocur fought all the time, but they weren't a joke with their gloves on, either.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    But thats my point.  Marty came into the league and bounced around from position to position(fwd/d) and fought all comers.  I actually think we has a solid dman as well.  But he did break into the league as what could be refered to as a Clown and worked his way into a player as well. 

    I know you dislike Thorton.  But I think of all the enforcers out there he has fantastic numbers.  Now, saying this I also believe we have enough guys to police this team w/o him.

    It seems that there are more skating clowns in todays game then in the past.  I mean guys like Marty would get 10+ minutes of ice a game.  Clowns get 2 mins max. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]But thats my point.  Marty came into the league and bounced around from position to position(fwd/d) and fought all comers.  I actually think we has a solid dman as well.  But he did break into the league as what could be refered to as a Clown and worked his way into a player as well.  I know you dislike Thorton.  But I think of all the enforcers out there he has fantastic numbers.  Now, saying this I also believe we have enough guys to police this team w/o him. It seems that there are more skating clowns in todays game then in the past.  I mean guys like Marty would get 10+ minutes of ice a game.  Clowns get 2 mins max. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    McSorley was a good hockey player that could/would fight.  51 points in the OHL, 30 points in 58 games in the AHL.  His PIM tally overshadows his point totals, but the guy had 108 NHL goals.  For perspective, Top 10 all time Ray Bourque had 410.

    If fighting were banned, I think Shawn Thornton would be out of the NHL.  The best Skating Clown is still a Skating Clown.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for? : McSorley was a good hockey player that could/would fight.  51 points in the OHL, 30 points in 58 games in the AHL.  His PIM tally overshadows his point totals, but the guy had 108 NHL goals.  For perspective, Top 10 all time Ray Bourque had 410. If fighting were banned, I think Shawn Thornton would be out of the NHL.  The best Skating Clown is still a Skating Clown.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]


    I agree with this. I wish for a game like tonight where the other team has no "skating clowns" as you put it that Thornton would be the scratch instead of someone like Paille/Caron/Seguin etc... He is an ok hockey player but not better than those 3.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for? : I agree with this. I wish for a game like tonight where the other team has no "skating clowns" as you put it that Thornton would be the scratch instead of someone like Paille/Caron/Seguin etc... He is an ok hockey player but not better than those 3.
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. If there is no opposing Clown, don't dress your Clown.  I'll take it a step further.    When there is an opposing Clown, don't dress your Clown.  That way he'll be a completely wasted jersey and your team will be ahead one (at least semi) skilled player.  If NYR puts Bbooggaarrdd on the ice and the B's have Caron out there, who is the better team?


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?


    skating clown=george parros(only ice time is to fight).....enforcer= shawn thornton(can actually skate and contribute)
    - there is definitely a difference
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    In Response to Re: What are Enforcers for?:
    [QUOTE]skating clown=george parros(only ice time is to fight).....enforcer= shawn thornton(can actually skate and contribute) - there is definitely a difference
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    What does Thornton enforce?

    How's Savard's head?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    it's obvious what ever i say will fall on deaf ears-NAS, "in any game..." pointless to continue to discuss-sorry shawn thornton did something/said something to upset you-he's your personal whippingpost obviously 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What are Enforcers for?

    I think from a team stand point if you remove a guy like that from your lineup it can hurt from within.  Meaning, he is always there for the guys and does chip in with pts.  Now we play a team with no meathead and you sit.  I think that sends a bad message.  I know its about wins and loses but a lot of time team moral is more important than a skill guy. 

    And I will use a personal example.  I played pretty high levels of hockey and we had a veteran who was a hard nosed grinder, role player who was there through good and bad.  He was scratched for a player who was a pure offense guy but brutal in the room.  It was a terrible thing to watch that guy not lace them up in favor of the new scorer with attitude.   

    I would dress Thorton every game.  Seems like a leader in the room as well. He can score.  If the league was based on pure skill there would be a lot of guys on the Bruins out of the NHL.  There are smaller skilled guys in Europe who would skate circles around some of our fwds. 

    But since there is a huge physical element in todays game I think having ST around is a good thing.  And he does get more ice time than 2 minutes. 
     
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