What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Current list, sure to grow: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=75388

     

    I get their desire to continue to play hockey, but they're still sitting on the millions they have made prior to the lockout. Why go overseas and steal the jobs of others because their league can't function? Shouldn't the "star players", as NHLPA members, be more focused on their own league's problems instead of running away to Europe?

     

    Does all of these players leaving indicate that the players are expecting a long lockout, or no season at all?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    I find a touch of irony that they will go play in Europe for much less money and under much less safe conditions.  I will laugh hard if one of them gets injured and then loses his guaranteed money under his NHL contract.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Several player agents surveyed this week said they expect most of their European clients will play in their home countries should the lockout extend into October. Some of their North Americans teammates could then follow suit if it lasts much beyond that, especially with the KHL eager to take advantage of the situation.

    For many players, collecting a paycheque – even a much smaller one – while still playing is obviously appealing. Another source of income is also coming in the form of an escrow payment from last season, which could help keep otherwise antsy players accommodated with 6.5 to 8.5 per cent of their 2011-12 salary landing in their bank account in mid-October.

    For the average player, that’s another $150,000 to $200,000 or so – or the equivalent of two weeks’ pay – to tide them over. For someone like Ovechkin, it’s closer to $700,000.

    Consider, too, that this is a more unified and better prepared group of players lining up behind new NHLPA head Donald Fehr, and those three factors alone (Europe, escrow and financial planning) may push the urgency to get a deal done into November and beyond.

    As for where the negotiations stand, the situation is bleak. The league’s latest offer came with an immediate 19.3-per-cent pay cut that has zero chance of being accepted, even before other givebacks are factored in.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Smart move allot of players will be following suit, (Nash and Thornton have signed today for Swedish teams) there is a report Crosby's agent is already searching. Not good for fans though because the players getting Escrow payments allows the NHLPA to dig their heals in.

    I was hoping for November start to the season until I found out NBC pays the league no matter if the season is under way or not. Now I am thinking January when players who aren't playing in Europe start to pressure Fehr.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Several player agents surveyed this week said they expect most of their European clients will play in their home countries should the lockout extend into October. Some of their North Americans teammates could then follow suit if it lasts much beyond that, especially with the KHL eager to take advantage of the situation.

    For many players, collecting a paycheque – even a much smaller one – while still playing is obviously appealing. Another source of income is also coming in the form of an escrow payment from last season, which could help keep otherwise antsy players accommodated with 6.5 to 8.5 per cent of their 2011-12 salary landing in their bank account in mid-October.

    For the average player, that’s another $150,000 to $200,000 or so – or the equivalent of two weeks’ pay – to tide them over. For someone like Ovechkin, it’s closer to $700,000.

    Consider, too, that this is a more unified and better prepared group of players lining up behind new NHLPA head Donald Fehr, and those three factors alone (Europe, escrow and financial planning) may push the urgency to get a deal done into November and beyond.

    As for where the negotiations stand, the situation is bleak. The league’s latest offer came with an immediate 19.3-per-cent pay cut that has zero chance of being accepted, even before other givebacks are factored in.

    _________________________________________________________________________

    Smart move allot of players will be following suit, (Nash and Thornton have signed today for Swedish teams) there is a report Crosby's agent is already searching. Not good for fans though because the players getting Escrow payments allows the NHLPA to dig their heals in.

    I was hoping for November start to the season until I found out NBC pays the league no matter if the season is under way or not. Now I am thinking January when players who aren't playing in Europe start to pressure Fehr.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I find it frustrating that the players are still focused on the first NHL offer and refuse to acknowledge that the NHL has made 2 offers since that do not ask for a salary rollback.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBRUINSin2012. Show StanleyCuptotheBRUINSin2012's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    They may a little less money but in Switzerland for example they have a house included and a car they get to play in a very hight competitve league and stay in top of their game ...the AHL is already loaded with a bunch a players that will play in the NHL but get the chance to play here in N"America,,,,I predicted on Aug 8th that the season would only start shortly after Christmas ...but I am not so sure anymore ..I think it could start somewhere in March 2013 ....both parties dont look in a rush to come to an agreement ...sorry about that ,,,

     

    Staney Cup to the BRUINS in 2011 and 2013 (dont know if there will be playoffs anymore)

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    In response to Orrthebest's comment:

    I find it frustrating that the players are still focused on the first NHL offer and refuse to acknowledge that the NHL has made 2 offers since that do not ask for a salary rollback.


    I won't point my finger at one side as you know Orr it takes two to tango. It is starting to seem to me the players already planned on getting a double paycheck of Escrow and playing elsewhere.

    I think the next offer again will be from the owners but the players are still not going to get over 50% HRR. Add this factor in, the Bush tax cuts are done after the new year so the HRR means allot to owners like Jacobs and Snider so they want the higher % of HRR.

    I'm just hoping now both sides just don't think that they should be entitled to more than 50% and split it even at 50/50.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Neecic. Show Neecic's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    if weber goes to europe and blows out his knee, career ending injury, what happens to his contract with the preds?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Intresting article on what management thinks: http://www.bergerbytes.ca/2012/09/nhl-players-undermining-their-cause/

    “Let ‘em go,” howled the executive, instantly recognizable to all hockey fans but requesting – as he must – anonymity. “The players think they are threatening the owners by signing contracts in Europe. In fact, what they’re showing is they don’t have a lot of stomach to remain together in this fight. And that’s what we expected.”

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    this kind of crap gave the WHA footing 40 years ago.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    In response to Neecic's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    if weber goes to europe and blows out his knee, career ending injury, what happens to his contract with the preds?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Any player not fit to play will be suspended and will not get paid until they are.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    In response to Bisson1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Current list, sure to grow: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?id=75388

     

    I get their desire to continue to play hockey, but they're still sitting on the millions they have made prior to the lockout. Why go overseas and steal the jobs of others because their league can't function? Shouldn't the "star players", as NHLPA members, be more focused on their own league's problems instead of running away to Europe?

     

    Does all of these players leaving indicate that the players are expecting a long lockout, or no season at all?

    They are not stealing jobs. They earn those jobs.

    [/QUOTE]


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Usually people who become scabs strike break because they are desperate - they'll take any job, even if it is a scab job - because they need to help their family.

    Most of the players who go overseas aren't hard up, they're not strike breakers, they are taking relatively low paying or middle class jobs from others out of an entitlement attitude.

    To me they are far worse than scabs. Joe Thornton made $7.2 million last year. The average salary on Davos is $38k a year. Someone who needs the money most likely just lost their job so Thornton can stay in shape while he waits for the lockout to be resolved. What's wrong with Thornton playing for an Allan Cup team (amateur) rather than going to Davos, if the goal is to stay in shape?

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    And if you look at the Allan Cup (Canadian Senior Men's AAA) the level of competition is close to, if not better than, the Swiss league. It's greed, plain and simple.

    BTW we have mentioned other outlets for watching hockey - jr., university, AHL etc. Allan Cup qualified teams is also very good hockey.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    The fact that so many are going overseas tells me they think it's going to be a long lockout.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    In response to red75's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Usually people who become scabs strike break because they are desperate - they'll take any job, even if it is a scab job - because they need to help their family.

    Most of the players who go overseas aren't hard up, they're not strike breakers, they are taking relatively low paying or middle class jobs from others out of an entitlement attitude.

    To me they are far worse than scabs. Joe Thornton made $7.2 million last year. The average salary on Davos is $38k a year. Someone who needs the money most likely just lost their job so Thornton can stay in shape while he waits for the lockout to be resolved. What's wrong with Thornton playing for an Allan Cup team (amateur) rather than going to Davos, if the goal is to stay in shape?

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

    My point exactly.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Corey Hirsch was really passionate about this during the last lockout.  These guys go over for an undertermined period of time, but the team can't carry them and another foreign-born player, so a guy who, like Hirsch, has made the commitment to that team for a longer term, who has moved his family and is still able to make a living out of hockey even though he'll never be NHL star rich - well that guy is on the street with jobs in hockey very very scarce until the NHL and the NHLPA have figured out what they want to do with the biggest hockey business in the world.  Then all of the NHL players will bail back to the NHL and these guys, if they haven't given up and gone home, might get the call to come back.  What must sting the most - above and beyond the fact that you've already lost one job to these guys by virtue of them being better players - is that a lot of these guys played with or against guys who are now taking their jobs in Junior, College, the AHL or the NHL.  Tough to have spent time on the same side in the same locker room and then one of your old teammates comes in and takes you job for no reason other than beign locked out is boring.

    Even worse is how many of these NHL stars go to other leagues and basically steal money.  They show up and play at 75%.  How many of them didn't play full seasons during the last lockout because they didn't think the level of play or the life was worthy of them?  I can't remember all of the examples - but it was more than a few.  Thornton and Nash were the exception - they played together and had some success.  Really, the only pro success - in terms of playoff wins - either of them has had.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    "They show up and play at 75%.  How many of them didn't play full seasons during the last lockout because they didn't think the level of play or the life was worthy of them?"

    Depends on who you ask, asking the owner of the Swiss team that Thornton and Nash are playing for I would think he is excited to start putting up ads all over the Alps. TV viewing up, apparel sales up and if attendence is down that is surely going back up. You can also bet that the owner could care less about Bettman, Fehr and North American hockey fans.

    Is 75% Nash and Thornton output better than 110% of the best player(s) playing in the Swiss league ?

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    I have no issues with players going over seas to play.  I just hope this all ends.  The only silver lining for me if there is no NHL is how good Canadas world junior team will be.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    Sure, but they were the exception, not the rule.  They played the full year and played reasonably well in part because they fed off of each other and that helped them maintain a higher level of play. But they didn't dominate the way you might expect.  Oleg Petrov had more goals than Nash.  Randy Robitaille had more assists than Thornton.  The leaders were one-time fringe Bruin Robitaille, one-time fringe Flame/Whaler Hnat Domenichelli, 5 cup of coffee man Jean-Guy Trudel, former fringe Red Wing Stacy Roest, and a guy who was in and out of the NHL in Ville Peltonen.  Then JT.  Nash didn't make the top ten in overall scoring.

    You see the same thing in most of the other Elite leagues.  Finland?  Familiar failed prospects all over the place.  Germany?  Ditto (with a shout out to Marco Sturm).  In the Czech league, you saw Czech guys with NHL pedigree like Hejduk and Jan Bulis and Petr Nedved - but even then, there were other guys doing just as well if not better.  Sweden is hard to classify - Swedes like Zetterberg did well, but so did Knuble, Horcoff, and Brendan Morrison.

    I would think, if I'm an owner or GM, that I'm bringing in a top player if I sign one of the NHLers on the market, and I know there were a lot more of them in Europe than show up on the top stats sheets in all three categories.  The "there's more to the game than..." argument doesn't really work here.  You don't worry about bringing in an NHL fourth liner to grind Swiss cheese.

    Not every team had that Davos experience, and I'm sure there are some Euro GMs who are not so excited this time around.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    I think what also helps GMs and owners over there is they will take an NHL player who is getting near the end of a career instead of waiting for Yetiberg type to finally develope. Correct those rinks over there aren't good for a 4th line mucker, they have no place.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Babajingo. Show Babajingo's posts

    Re: What do you guys think of players playing in Europe?

    If I was the KHL, I would schedule some exibition (or real) games over here.  I know I would check out a game or two.  I know the quality isnt as good but it's something different and to help fill the void.

     
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