What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    During this work stoppage we've all been hearing different opinions being thrown around regarding just about everything that's NHL related and more. Going from the cap and who's at fault to the acceptable age of free agency, it seems lots has been covered. What I'd like to hear specifically right now are suggestions as to what the NHLPA should've (or even could've) done differently to avoid being locked out to start the season. For this thread, I don't care about what you think they should do now. It's entirely about what you think they could've done. You may notice I've gone straight to could've because I don't think there was anything they could've done to avoid this. Sure, maybe guys like Kovalchuk, Parise and Suter should've told owners "that's way too much money",and signed for much less than they were offered on the open market,  but that seems a bit silly doesn't it? Also, don't bother suggesting they should've just accepted the owner's opening "offer" as there is no chance that even the owners expected that insult to be accepted. Let's remind everyone that this is a LOCKOUT, not a strike.

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48812-NHL-finally-getting-serious-at-bargaining-table.html

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    I think the NHLPA could have started the CBA negotiations sooner instead of at the end of summer.I know it is a tactic often used to make time a powerful motivator, but in this case the NHLPA should have known from past practice that the NHL doesn't break easily. If they had started earlier then they would have realized how far apart they really were, or maybe the NHLPA already new and figured they would be locked out anyways so to heck with it. I guess if Paul Kelly was still the head of the PA, there would be hockey by now.The question is, would he have gotten a better deal than Fehr will now, who knows. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    I think the NHLPA could have started the CBA negotiations sooner instead of at the end of summer.I know it is a tactic often used to make time a powerful motivator, but in this case the NHLPA should have known from past practice that the NHL doesn't break easily. If they had started earlier then they would have realized how far apart they really were, or maybe the NHLPA already new and figured they would be locked out anyways so to heck with it. I guess if Paul Kelly was still the head of the PA, there would be hockey by now.The question is, would he have gotten a better deal than Fehr will now, who knows. 




    50, I'm not sure if you perused the article I added after but it addresses just what you're saying. Why would the players be in any hurry to bring an offer to the league? They've stated all along that they were happy with the current CBA and absolutely willing to play under those terms while renegotiating. It's the owners that didn't like the CBA so the onus should be on them to provide an alternative that they could work with. They waited until the middle of July before they spit in the PA's face.

    http://offsidesportsblog.blogspot.ca/search?q=paul+kelly

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    Sorry dez, didn't read it, should have. I know the players and Fehr have said they were willing to play under the old CBA, but that is the point, it is old,expired, and the owners wanted a new one.With that being the case, the NHLPA should have grabbed the bull by the horns and started things off. They must have known their offer to play under the old CBA would be rejected as then the players would hold all the aces. They just had to refer to the lost baseball playoffs as evidence. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    1.  Make an offer before the middle of August.

    2.  Don't enter this process to heal the last one.  Enter this one looking for a fair deal only.

    3.  Come down of the high horses and remember that they're well paid to play a game.  Nothing more.

    4.  Realize that the owners are going to bend, but they are not going to break.

    5.  Take the 50/50 rev split and the $211M and sign on the line.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    Sorry dez, didn't read it, should have. I know the players and Fehr have said they were willing to play under the old CBA, but that is the point, it is old,expired, and the owners wanted a new one.With that being the case, the NHLPA should have grabbed the bull by the horns and started things off. They must have known their offer to play under the old CBA would be rejected as then the players would hold all the aces. They just had to refer to the lost baseball playoffs as evidence. 




    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.



    Which heavy concessions?  The ones that dropped free agency to 27, or the ones that have created the highest league payroll ever?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    They should have not fired Paul Kelly. Once they hired Donald Fehr, and I've said it in past threads, I knew the season was in jeopardy. That is not a knock on Donald Fehr, he's brilliant at what he does, if I ever commited a crime, I'd want him representing me, but he has no connection to the game of hockey like Paul Kelly does. Now, would Paul Kelly being involved in the game of hockey prevented a lockout? I have no idea, but from what I understand he does care about the game.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    1.  Make an offer before the middle of August.

    2.  Don't enter this process to heal the last one.  Enter this one looking for a fair deal only.

    3.  Come down of the high horses and remember that they're well paid to play a game.  Nothing more.

    4.  Realize that the owners are going to bend, but they are not going to break.

    5.  Take the 50/50 rev split and the $211M and sign on the line.

     



     The union's offer was made in July 2005. It was totally up to the league to offer a counter. They waited until July 2012 to do that. Don't act like it's the PA's fault it took them a full month to counter the opening insult. Just because the owners are able to reject 3 offers in 15 minutes doesn't mean the players shouldn't take the time to study what's given to them. The high horse comment is truly amazing. Why does any athlete get paid so much? Should actors make millions for movies? Should singers make so much to sing? Why does the CEO make so much when he doesn't work as hard as the guy on the assembly line? It's simple capitalism isn't it? Why is it you have such disdain for these locked out hockey players but you have no trouble at all with the owners doing whatever they need to make a buck? Trust me, we all wanted to play in the NHL but most of us have gotten over it.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    Sorry dez, didn't read it, should have. I know the players and Fehr have said they were willing to play under the old CBA, but that is the point, it is old,expired, and the owners wanted a new one.With that being the case, the NHLPA should have grabbed the bull by the horns and started things off. They must have known their offer to play under the old CBA would be rejected as then the players would hold all the aces. They just had to refer to the lost baseball playoffs as evidence. 




    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.



    I realize that but in the court of public opinion(doesn't count for much,i know) it shows that at least you are willing and earnest about getting to what needs to be talked about further and what is easy to come to an agreement on. The meetings that were spent hashing out the minor stuff could have been done months ago and the major issues could have started in the summer, as these things drag out the major sticking points we have now could have been arrived at in early september and a solution MIGHT have been arrived at sooner. I guess missing paychecks on one side and missing HRR on the other is whats needed in the long run.Overall it just seems so stupid.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.



    Which heavy concessions?  The ones that dropped free agency to 27, or the ones that have created the highest league payroll ever?




    They've already offered to concede tens of millions in revenue sharing only to see it be turned down. They've made at least 5 counters to the league with concession from the latest CBA in every one of them so get your head out of the sand. This isn't a strike. It's not the players that are demanding anything.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu1uOxprHZA

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to 50belowzero's comment:

    Sorry dez, didn't read it, should have. I know the players and Fehr have said they were willing to play under the old CBA, but that is the point, it is old,expired, and the owners wanted a new one.With that being the case, the NHLPA should have grabbed the bull by the horns and started things off. They must have known their offer to play under the old CBA would be rejected as then the players would hold all the aces. They just had to refer to the lost baseball playoffs as evidence. 




    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.



    I realize that but in the court of public opinion(doesn't count for much,i know) it shows that at least you are willing and earnest about getting to what needs to be talked about further and what is easy to come to an agreement on. The meetings that were spent hashing out the minor stuff could have been done months ago and the major issues could have started in the summer, as these things drag out the major sticking points we have now could have been arrived at in early september and a solution MIGHT have been arrived at sooner. I guess missing paychecks on one side and missing HRR on the other is whats needed in the long run.Overall it just seems so stupid.



    No argument on that one 50. Cheers!

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    During this work stoppage we've all been hearing different opinions being thrown around regarding just about everything that's NHL related and more. Going from the cap and who's at fault to the acceptable age of free agency, it seems lots has been covered. What I'd like to hear specifically right now are suggestions as to what the NHLPA should've (or even could've) done differently to avoid being locked out to start the season. For this thread, I don't care about what you think they should do now. It's entirely about what you think they could've done. You may notice I've gone straight to could've because I don't think there was anything they could've done to avoid this. Sure, maybe guys like Kovalchuk, Parise and Suter should've told owners "that's way too much money",and signed for much less than they were offered on the open market,  but that seems a bit silly doesn't it? Also, don't bother suggesting they should've just accepted the owner's opening "offer" as there is no chance that even the owners expected that insult to be accepted. Let's remind everyone that this is a LOCKOUT, not a strike.

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48812-NHL-finally-getting-serious-at-bargaining-table.html




    You may think it's silly, but I think it is possible that they would be playing right now, if the players and agents hadn't been so determined to squeeze every cent they could, out of the owners.

    I don't blame the owners for trying to eliminate any loopholes they know the players will try to exploit.

    I do agree that a less draconian opening CBA offer by the NHL, would have reduced the level of acrimony, that currently exists.

    I don't have a problem with the lockout, because I don't know what the alternative would be.The NHL would not play under the old CBA, since that would not have solved any of the issues they had with the old CBA, and would have given the NHLPA no incentive to come to the bargaining table.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



     The union's offer was made in July 2005. It was totally up to the league to offer a counter. They waited until July 2012 to do that. Don't act like it's the PA's fault it took them a full month to counter the opening insult. Just because the owners are able to reject 3 offers in 15 minutes doesn't mean the players shouldn't take the time to study what's given to them. The high horse comment is truly amazing. Why does any athlete get paid so much? Should actors make millions for movies? Should singers make so much to sing? Why does the CEO make so much when he doesn't work as hard as the guy on the assembly line? It's simple capitalism isn't it? Why is it you have such disdain for these locked out hockey players but you have no trouble at all with the owners doing whatever they need to make a buck? Trust me, we all wanted to play in the NHL but most of us have gotten over it.



    June 27th, 2012:

    Fehr was asked whether a work stoppage was inevitable.

    "None of that is coming from our side," he said. "That's the first thing. Secondly, we have not made a proposal. We haven't heard an owners' proposal."

    ---


    I guess you and Mr. Fehr see things differently.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:


    If you know that you're going to make concessions, it's difficult to be the one to start things off. Sure, they knew they were aways apart but they needed the owners to tell them how far it was. We can already see at this point that heavy concessions made by the players are still not enough and we're a long way from what they started with.



    Which heavy concessions?  The ones that dropped free agency to 27, or the ones that have created the highest league payroll ever?




    They've already offered to concede tens of millions in revenue sharing only to see it be turned down. They've made at least 5 counters to the league with concession from the latest CBA in every one of them so get your head out of the sand. This isn't a strike. It's not the players that are demanding anything.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wu1uOxprHZA




    The owners offered a 50/50 split.  The players rejected it.  Their "offers" were pork barrel central, so obviously the NHL rejected them.

    Dear NHL,

    We really want to play.  In fact we'll play for free this year and next.  Let's get back to work, okay?  Please alert the press corps that we are willing to play for free and that we've conceded.

     

    Signed,

    The NHLPA.

     

    P.S.  This agreement is contingent upon the ownership of all 30 teams being transferred to the players in 2015.  See you on the ice!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to biggskye's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    During this work stoppage we've all been hearing different opinions being thrown around regarding just about everything that's NHL related and more. Going from the cap and who's at fault to the acceptable age of free agency, it seems lots has been covered. What I'd like to hear specifically right now are suggestions as to what the NHLPA should've (or even could've) done differently to avoid being locked out to start the season. For this thread, I don't care about what you think they should do now. It's entirely about what you think they could've done. You may notice I've gone straight to could've because I don't think there was anything they could've done to avoid this. Sure, maybe guys like Kovalchuk, Parise and Suter should've told owners "that's way too much money",and signed for much less than they were offered on the open market,  but that seems a bit silly doesn't it? Also, don't bother suggesting they should've just accepted the owner's opening "offer" as there is no chance that even the owners expected that insult to be accepted. Let's remind everyone that this is a LOCKOUT, not a strike.

    http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48812-NHL-finally-getting-serious-at-bargaining-table.html




    You may think it's silly, but I think it is possible that they would be playing right now, if the players and agents hadn't been so determined to squeeze every cent they could, out of the owners.

    I don't blame the owners for trying to eliminate any loopholes they know the players will try to exploit.

    I do agree that a less draconian opening CBA offer by the NHL, would have reduced the level of acrimony, that currently exists.

    I don't have a problem with the lockout, because I don't know what the alternative would be.The NHL would not play under the old CBA, since that would not have solved any of the issues they had with the old CBA, and would have given the NHLPA no incentive to come to the bargaining table.




    Bigs, it's not up to the players and their agents to curb team's spending. None of the players I've mentioned held out for more cash. In fact, Parise was reported to have give up personal salary so that the Wild could also sign Suter. The reason I say it's silly is because you can't expect anyone to say, "no that's way too much" when people start a bidding war for their services. Honestly, should Lou Lam expect Parise to stay for less cash right after the Devils broke the bank for Kovalchuk with a clear attempt to circumvent the rules?

    '

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    Some owners certainly went bananas with their money and are partly to blame for this.  I've never told a company to pay me less.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



     The union's offer was made in July 2005. It was totally up to the league to offer a counter. They waited until July 2012 to do that. Don't act like it's the PA's fault it took them a full month to counter the opening insult. Just because the owners are able to reject 3 offers in 15 minutes doesn't mean the players shouldn't take the time to study what's given to them. The high horse comment is truly amazing. Why does any athlete get paid so much? Should actors make millions for movies? Should singers make so much to sing? Why does the CEO make so much when he doesn't work as hard as the guy on the assembly line? It's simple capitalism isn't it? Why is it you have such disdain for these locked out hockey players but you have no trouble at all with the owners doing whatever they need to make a buck? Trust me, we all wanted to play in the NHL but most of us have gotten over it.



    June 27th, 2012:

    Fehr was asked whether a work stoppage was inevitable.

    "None of that is coming from our side," he said. "That's the first thing. Secondly, we have not made a proposal. We haven't heard an owners' proposal."

    ---


    I guess you and Mr. Fehr see things differently.




    You're clearly flailing again trying to argue the semantics of what a proposal is. The players proposed that they continue playing under the current CBA. It was up to the owners to let them know the specifics of what they had issue with. Your quote from Fehr only solidifies what I've said all along. It was 2 weeks after the comment that the league finally made an "offer". How about you stop grasping and you try addressing the clear and concise questions you were asked in the post instead of skirting the issue? Why is capitalism fine for some but not for others?

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    To be clear, I never agreed with the idea to drop the age for free agency. It seemed inevitable that salaries would sky rocket. I've also been outspoken against giving UFA cash to RFA players, suggesting that GM's needed to apply the leverage that the last CBA afforded them. Still we see guys like Stamkos and Doughty being paid like 10 year vets. I've seen some of the same folks who are pro-ownership in this debate have no issue with Rick Nash making 7 million a year since he was 25 because he's "a rock star". Frankly, I find it a bit odd. To me, a big reason the Bruins won a Cup is because PC is smarter than most GM's. Most of the deals he's made since arriving have looked good in hindsight regardless of how widely 2nd guessed they may have been at the time(TT, Bergeron, Lucic,Seids, Ference,Boychuk, etc.). All of the teams had the exact same cap to work with. It's not up to the players to tell the GM's how to spend it. Some are far better than others at doing it.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



     The union's offer was made in July 2005. It was totally up to the league to offer a counter. They waited until July 2012 to do that. Don't act like it's the PA's fault it took them a full month to counter the opening insult. Just because the owners are able to reject 3 offers in 15 minutes doesn't mean the players shouldn't take the time to study what's given to them. The high horse comment is truly amazing. Why does any athlete get paid so much? Should actors make millions for movies? Should singers make so much to sing? Why does the CEO make so much when he doesn't work as hard as the guy on the assembly line? It's simple capitalism isn't it? Why is it you have such disdain for these locked out hockey players but you have no trouble at all with the owners doing whatever they need to make a buck? Trust me, we all wanted to play in the NHL but most of us have gotten over it.



    June 27th, 2012:

    Fehr was asked whether a work stoppage was inevitable.

    "None of that is coming from our side," he said. "That's the first thing. Secondly, we have not made a proposal. We haven't heard an owners' proposal."

    ---


    I guess you and Mr. Fehr see things differently.




    You're clearly flailing again trying to argue the semantics of what a proposal is. The players proposed that they continue playing under the current CBA. It was up to the owners to let them know the specifics of what they had issue with. Your quote from Fehr only solidifies what I've said all along. It was 2 weeks after the comment that the league finally made an "offer". How about you stop grasping and you try addressing the clear and concise questions you were asked in the post instead of skirting the issue? Why is capitalism fine for some but not for others?




    So, the offer the players made in 2005 that you've spoken of was to continue to play under the CBA despite the fact that it had expired in 2012?

    Who's grasping?

    Captialism is fine for everyone.  Have I stated differently?

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    I haven't addressed your questions about movie stars, musicians or other sports teams because it is of no interest to me.  What I think of any pay checks received by Jeff Daniels has no bearing on the subject we are discussing, which is hockey.

    As for hockey players, I don't care what they make as long as it doesn't affect my life.  Right now, their pay has affected my life.  If they'd just agree to make a few less millions over the course of their contracts, the NHL would be in full swing right now.

    Also keep this in mind.  I read it on TSN this afternoon I think.  Right now the $211M being offered by the owners is available.  Soon, it's going to come down.  That $211M was based on a full 82 game schedule.  They aren't going to play 82 games, so that number is going to be adjusted.  The stupid players and their stupid leader of their stupid union should use history as a marker.  Sign the deal now or end up signing it later under my less favorable conditions.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I haven't addressed your questions about movie stars, musicians or other sports teams because it is of no interest to me.  What I think of any pay checks received by Jeff Daniels has no bearing on the subject we are discussing, which is hockey.

    As for hockey players, I don't care what they make as long as it doesn't affect my life.  Right now, their pay has affected my life.  If they'd just agree to make a few less millions over the course of their contracts, the NHL would be in full swing right now.

    Also keep this in mind.  I read it on TSN this afternoon I think.  Right now the $211M being offered by the owners is available.  Soon, it's going to come down.  That $211M was based on a full 82 game schedule.  They aren't going to play 82 games, so that number is going to be adjusted.  The stupid players and their stupid leader of their stupid union should use history as a marker.  Sign the deal now or end up signing it later under my less favorable conditions.

     




    Embarrassing poor and evasive answer. It's clear to anyone who can read that the real question was why is capitalism fine for the owners but not for the players? Dress it up like the phrasing is beneath you if you'd like. Anyone can see it's because you haven't got an answer that couldn't be uttered by any child that can speak....." it's just cause I want it!" Maybe you should write an angry letter to the union so they'll know it matters to you now. That's probably all that's holding up the negotiations. Hopefully the NHLPA has access to TSN. Sounds like they've got a real scoop there. Someone tell the players...........

    http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2008/08/04/how-to-spot-a-narcissist/

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:



     The union's offer was made in July 2005. It was totally up to the league to offer a counter. They waited until July 2012 to do that. Don't act like it's the PA's fault it took them a full month to counter the opening insult. Just because the owners are able to reject 3 offers in 15 minutes doesn't mean the players shouldn't take the time to study what's given to them. The high horse comment is truly amazing. Why does any athlete get paid so much? Should actors make millions for movies? Should singers make so much to sing? Why does the CEO make so much when he doesn't work as hard as the guy on the assembly line? It's simple capitalism isn't it? Why is it you have such disdain for these locked out hockey players but you have no trouble at all with the owners doing whatever they need to make a buck? Trust me, we all wanted to play in the NHL but most of us have gotten over it.



    June 27th, 2012:

    Fehr was asked whether a work stoppage was inevitable.

    "None of that is coming from our side," he said. "That's the first thing. Secondly, we have not made a proposal. We haven't heard an owners' proposal."

    ---


    I guess you and Mr. Fehr see things differently.




    You're clearly flailing again trying to argue the semantics of what a proposal is. The players proposed that they continue playing under the current CBA. It was up to the owners to let them know the specifics of what they had issue with. Your quote from Fehr only solidifies what I've said all along. It was 2 weeks after the comment that the league finally made an "offer". How about you stop grasping and you try addressing the clear and concise questions you were asked in the post instead of skirting the issue? Why is capitalism fine for some but not for others?




    So, the offer the players made in 2005 that you've spoken of was to continue to play under the CBA despite the fact that it had expired in 2012?

    Who's grasping?

    Captialism is fine for everyone.  Have I stated differently?



    Again, you're embarrassing yourself. The players agreed to continue playing under those terms while negotiations on a new CBA took place. Burying your head in the sand and acting like this is confusing is hilarious. Obvious attempts trying to argue nothing but semantics is a joke. Keep it up. I'm sure at the end of all of this you'll be proclaiming yourself to be the winner of something. If capitalism is fine for everyone then what are the players doing wrong aside from making it easier for you to sound like a hypocrite? Have a good weekend.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    2 beauties going toe to toe.  Please end the lockout soon.  

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: What Should The Players Have Done To Change Their Fates?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I haven't addressed your questions about movie stars, musicians or other sports teams because it is of no interest to me.  What I think of any pay checks received by Jeff Daniels has no bearing on the subject we are discussing, which is hockey.

    As for hockey players, I don't care what they make as long as it doesn't affect my life.  Right now, their pay has affected my life.  If they'd just agree to make a few less millions over the course of their contracts, the NHL would be in full swing right now.

    Also keep this in mind.  I read it on TSN this afternoon I think.  Right now the $211M being offered by the owners is available.  Soon, it's going to come down.  That $211M was based on a full 82 game schedule.  They aren't going to play 82 games, so that number is going to be adjusted.  The stupid players and their stupid leader of their stupid union should use history as a marker.  Sign the deal now or end up signing it later under my less favorable conditions.

     




    You've been pretty critical of others who've stated they really miss the NHL product....condiscendingly stating it hasn't bothered you cuz you've found better things to do with your time.

    Now...when convenient, you say get all dramatic and say this thing has "affected" your life?

    Do you have even a sliver of self awareness?

     

     
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