where were you?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]Good post Chowdah.  I posted yesterday but then deleted my post, it was just silly to read what was being said and maybe some should delete there's also. There's one aspect of Thorton's game that irks me at times,  it's when he has a player on the forecheck lined up and then turns away from him instead of finishing his check.  While watching some games with some buddies that disagreed with me I showed them about 3-4 times in one game how he didn't finish his checks.  Now they text me on my phone everytime he doesn't finish his check (even the other night on his best game as a Bruin).  Take notice . As for the 4th line playing the minutes , I've said it before , I'm okay with it.  There were many games that they pinned their opponents in their own zone (more than any other line) ,  sure they didn't score but they didn't get scored against .  They're setting up the Bruins other lines to come in and do the same.  Call it what you want,  game shifter, momentum , energy etc...  It works. As Chowdah mentions with his numbers with most of the other teams. Their was game that Julien on the road where Julien would have them start the period and that I disagree because as a coach you're asking for a mismatch when you don't have the last change.  As good as they are defensively they cannot match with some of the no1 lines out there. Now guys and gals please , enough with the un-pleasantries and all this apologizing on a forum ,  we are talking hockey here ,  right ? Unless the threads subject is off the topic, hockey. Merry Christmas !
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]

    Ok, I apologize for apologizing.
     
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    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]NAS is the only person on this site that sticks to his opinion and calls people out, and he is usually right. he once gave me negative feedback on one of my videos, and people flipped out on him. he is going to say what he thinks and that is fine because everyones opinions are different. i totally respected his critical but still suggestive feedback. speaking of videos NAS, made one the past couple weeks. check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bwj7PcbcbtE comment, rate, and sub, NAS i would love feedback on this video from you, thanks. everyone have a merry christmas
    Posted by bruinsCupiN09[/QUOTE]

    The only time I have issues with NAS is when he decides to bash gender.  I raised two daughters!  Otherwise he is a very knowlegeable poster and Bs fan.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: where were you? : NAS , this is one of those cats and dogs moments I had talked about before. Don't get mad at me but I disagree with some comments you make about Thornton's play . Has Thornton ever jumped in like Ference did for Lucic ? You say no . I say yes . A player has to be on the ice when a cheap shot occurs. He was, he did and it was only about 3 weeks ago.   http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/99538 You have said that all Thornton does is ask his opponent if he would like to fight ( staged ) and if he doesn't then he skates away . Agreed . But...........if you go to http://www.hockeyfights.com/leaders/players/  like I did and go through the fights of the leaders throughout the league you'll be hard pressed to find very many reactionary fights compared to the fights that are staged. In today's NHL Thornton doesn't do anything different then the rest of the tough guys in the league. Playing tough and banging bodies should be a priority for a 4th liner. Agreed totally . You say he doesn't . My view is so much different then yours. I see him taking the man when it is there . He is not a devastating hitter but takes the body. And as far as being a finesse player . I don't care if you're Derek Boogaard, if any player ( in the league ) has the puck in the offensive zone you don't discourage him from making plays to try to put the puck in the net. IMO Thornton has some offensive skills ( I know you don't agree ). Does a coach tell him forget to about that part of his game just because he is a tough guy ? Your idea about 4th liners not having more then 5 minutes per game isn't shared by the 30 coaches in the league . Here's proof , just click on TOI for lowest to highest . http://nhl.fanhouse.com/stats/2010?position=Forwards&league=NHL&statsCategory=Points&page=9&qualified=false I know I'm not exactly spreading the Christmas cheer with this post ( and I apologize for that ) but for me hockey is a 365 day thing.  Once again enjoy the Holidays !  
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    I agree with a lot that is stated here (stop the world). 

    He has scored a few goals in a few seasons.  He's not a bad skater (looking at you McGrattan).  If he wants to go all Chris Simon on us and get 29 while racking up the PIM, I'd be thrilled. 

    No, most if not all teams don't play their fourth line as little.  It is also true that scoring is way down.  I'm not suggesting that this is why, but it could be one of the factors.

    Yes, most NHL fighting leaders are actors and frauds.  It's why these days I am leaning away from supporting fighting in the NHL.  Staged fights between two skating boxers that are 100% unrelated to the game (or even hockey) are pointless interruptions, just as much as a fight in the stands at a concert that stops the music.  I watch hockey and go to hockey games to enjoy hockey.  I don't go to see tripping.  I don't go to see slashing.  I don't go to see fighting.  Yes, trips happen, so do slashes.  Pre-planned and expected fights don't excite me.  I waited all day for the Bruins/Thrashers game, and the start of the game was delayed because Thornton and Boulton decided to drop their gloves.  There was no  bad blood there.  That was not hockey.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: where were you? : I agree with a lot that is stated here (stop the world).  He has scored a few goals in a few seasons.  He's not a bad skater (looking at you McGrattan).  If he wants to go all Chris Simon on us and get 29 while racking up the PIM, I'd be thrilled.  No, most if not all teams don't play their fourth line as little.  It is also true that scoring is way down.  I'm not suggesting that this is why, but it could be one of the factors. Yes, most NHL fighting leaders are actors and frauds.  It's why these days I am leaning away from supporting fighting in the NHL.  Staged fights between two skating boxers that are 100% unrelated to the game (or even hockey) are pointless interruptions, just as much as a fight in the stands at a concert that stops the music.  I watch hockey and go to hockey games to enjoy hockey.  I don't go to see tripping.  I don't go to see slashing.  I don't go to see fighting.  Yes, trips happen, so do slashes.  Pre-planned and expected fights don't excite me.  I waited all day for the Bruins/Thrashers game, and the start of the game was delayed because Thornton and Boulton decided to drop their gloves.  There was no  bad blood there.  That was not hockey.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Agree there totally .  It does take away from the actual skills that we all look forward to seeing when we tune into a hockey game. I still like to see the odd fight here or there but I would prefer it to be a 'heat of the moment fight' and not an 'excuse me sir would you like to dance' type of fight. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: where were you? : Agree there totally .  It does take away from the actual skills that we all look forward to seeing when we tune into a hockey game. I still like to see the odd fight here or there but I would prefer it to be a 'heat of the moment fight' and not an 'excuse me sir would you like to dance' type of fight. 
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    That is the biggest difference.  It drives me crazy.  I've been mad enough that I punched a guy in the face.  I've made a guy made enough that he punched me in the face.  No matter how many times that has happened, never was there a warning or a "hey, let's fight".  It was be mad, throw punch.

    You look at the videos of the older fights.  The gloves come flying off and the fists start flying forward.  None of this do-se-do, slowly skate away from the action and slowly remove gloves and helmets.  It's fake.  It's fraudulent. It's weak.  It's not hockey.  It's an interruption.  Two different fights took place against Atlanta.  One was stupid (Thornton vs. Boulton) and the other was hockey (Ference, Lucic, Horton and Savard vs. Atlanta).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: where were you? : That is the biggest difference.  It drives me crazy.  I've been mad enough that I punched a guy in the face.  I've made a guy made enough that he punched me in the face.  No matter how many times that has happened, never was there a warning or a "hey, let's fight".  It was be mad, throw punch. You look at the videos of the older fights.  The gloves come flying off and the fists start flying forward.  None of this do-se-do, slowly skate away from the action and slowly remove gloves and helmets.  It's fake.  It's fraudulent. It's weak.  It's not hockey.  It's an interruption.  Two different fights took place against Atlanta.  One was stupid (Thornton vs. Boulton) and the other was hockey (Ference, Lucic, Horton and Savard vs. Atlanta).
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    NAS , you don't have to convince me about watching older fights. I grew up in the 6 team era. Rivalries existed back then because of playing each other so many times . When Montreal came to Toronto you knew there would be fireworks because of their hatred for each other. And that's before teams starting bringing in their goons. It was common to see the stars of their teams ( Bobby Hull , Gordie Howe , etc. ) have to fight their own battles against others. My favourite combatants from back then were Eddie Shack and John Ferguson. Shack would get Ferguson pissed off then take a licking from him. Thanks for this, it brought back memories for me .


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: where were you?

    WOW, even us older guys got an earful here. Here's my two cents worth. This team does not need Thornton or McGratton. Yes "Thorny" as Claude calls him, had a great night in scoring two goals. Maybe he inspired some teammates with his "staged" fight with Boulton, just maybe. This team needs the stars they have, and more competative players like Marchand , who is visibly agressive in his skating and competing. Others like Bergeron and Campbell are equally agressive, but more skilled and smoother. Wheeler has picked it up a bit this year, and Horton can be right in the mix, but needs a size 12 in his rear end regularly. Rex has been great, but now all he has is has been, so bring back Caron. Trade Wheeler or Ryder and bring up Arneil. These younger players will improve the speed and compete capability. REX is competative, but he cannot get there anymore, and Thornton, who bleeds black and gold is not a skilled hockey player in any aspect.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: where were you?

    NAS, disagree about the Thornton/Boulton fight. I see it as Thornton trying to rally his team the way he can. Apparently practice was chippy and there was a lot of tension in the room. I see that fight as having a very specific purpose and believe it was Thornton's way of saying, "we're changing things ASAP and we're going to take it out on the other guys." It probably falls under the category of "staged" since Thornton definitely had it planned, but I think it had a point to it...definitely got the boys more motivated than your typical opening shift where the two teams feel each other out, make a bunch of lateral passes, dump it in and change.


    It kind of kills me on the inside that NAS isn't a Thornton fan....Yell
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]NAS, disagree about the Thornton/Boulton fight. I see it as Thornton trying to rally his team the way he can. Apparently practice was chippy and there was a lot of tension in the room. I see that fight as having a very specific purpose and believe it was Thornton's way of saying, "we're changing things ASAP and we're going to take it out on the other guys." It probably falls under the category of "staged" since Thornton definitely had it planned, but I think it had a point to it...definitely got the boys more motivated than your typical opening shift where the two teams feel each other out, make a bunch of lateral passes, dump it in and change. It kind of kills me on the inside that NAS isn't a Thornton fan....
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    dc...while I admire Thornton for being as courageous and tough as he is, I'm not sure he motivates or inspires the team as would be expected. In a way I feel it almost does the opposite for this particular team. It lets everyone else off the hook, and may even make them feel that what Thornton does is enough for the entire team. One spontaneous Ference eruption is probably worth 10 staged "code" fights from Thornton. Last years Cooke retribution was an example of a totally meaningless response that not only didn't help this team, but probably set them back emotionally. Unless everyone is onboard then it really doesn't matter what one "enforcer" does -
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    DC:  The fight wasn't derived from anything that had happened.  Boulton and Thornton had no bad blood.  There was no retribution, no payback, no anything.  It was a staged fight that had nothing to do with hockey.

    If today's NHL players need to watch two men fight in order to get into playing, they should all retire because they're all frauds.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: where were you?

    I don't think the Cooke fight was the same as the Boulton fight -- two very different circumstances. The Cooke fight was expected, it had to go down, and if it didn't there'd have been a mutiny. The Boulton fight, as NAS pointed out, wasn't a given. It was "spontaneous" in that sense. Regardless, when someone you know gets in a fight (whether on the ice or on a chat board) it gets the blood pumping more than it normally would and I think that was the point.

    I also feel that when you're making millions and you see a guy making barely above the league minimum (okay, 300k isn't "barely" above, but you get the point) giving everything he's got (even if that's not much), if you've got any pride, you show up. And good on Thornton for calling it like it is when he says people weren't showing up...that is leadership and it's far less controversial than if Chara says it.
     
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    Re: where were you?

    NAS: They aren't frauds, they're human beings. Pscyhology is a huge part of sports from everyone's perspective (fans, coaches, players, etc). If your life is made with millions in the bank, fame, popularity, etc, etc, it might be hard to get motivated. But if your buddy, who makes way less, is throwing down and getting his face re-arranged, you probably wake up.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: where were you?

    I don't know if there's any bad blood between Thornton and Boulton but they fought a month ago ( below ) with Thornton rocking Boulton with an uppercut. My take on it ( and this is just a guess) is that Boulton wasn't happy about the outcome of that fight and wanted to prove himself in a rematch. Why not ask for it when the guy is standing beside you during the opening faceoff ?

    http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/99386
     
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    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]DC:  The fight wasn't derived from anything that had happened.  Boulton and Thornton had no bad blood.  There was no retribution, no payback, no anything.  It was a staged fight that had nothing to do with hockey. If today's NHL players need to watch two men fight in order to get into playing, they should all retire because they're all frauds.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE] Actually that was the 6th time the two have fought. So yes it did derive from something that happened and there was bad blood.
     Do your home work! (before commenting).
     
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    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: where were you? : Actually that was the 6th time the two have fought. So yes it did derive from something that happened and there was bad blood.  Do your home work! (before commenting).
    Posted by pauly1[/QUOTE]

    And what was the cause of the first five fights?   Do they dislike each other, or is it just two goons being goons?    My guess is the latter.  Neither is a dirty player, both are big fans of staged Goon vs. Goon battles.

     
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    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]NAS: They aren't frauds, they're human beings. Pscyhology is a huge part of sports from everyone's perspective (fans, coaches, players, etc). If your life is made with millions in the bank, fame, popularity, etc, etc, it might be hard to get motivated. But if your buddy, who makes way less, is throwing down and getting his face re-arranged, you probably wake up.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    I don't recall any hockey players needing staged fights in order to play the game well for the first 85 years in the NHL.  College kids don't need it.  European leagues don't need it. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: where were you?

    " staged" fights have no place in hockey. Thornton admits that he ASKED Boulton if he was ready to go , and that Boulton, "being a stand-up guy" agreed to fight. This stuff belongs in a ring, not in hockey. However, Ference's passion-full fight was and is good for hockey. A passionate response to a "dirty" hit has always been in hockey. Along with "staged" bouts, the sneaky butt end and other stick infractions, that some Europeans, particularly, have perfected, need to be abolished by the referees.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]" staged" fights have no place in hockey. Thornton admits that he ASKED Boulton if he was ready to go , and that Boulton, "being a stand-up guy" agreed to fight. This stuff belongs in a ring, not in hockey. However, Ference's passion-full fight was and is good for hockey. A passionate response to a "dirty" hit has always been in hockey. Along with "staged" bouts, the sneaky butt end and other stick infractions, that some Europeans, particularly, have perfected, need to be abolished by the referees.
    Posted by bogie6[/QUOTE]

    Bad blood, huh?  One guy asks the other, and the other is decent enough to agree.  Oh, the fued rages on. 


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: where were you?

    Do you guys really watch hockey? the phrase is "do you wanna go?" most h.w. bouts start with chatting. this isnt the 70's.

    anybody (almost) on this board would know boults and thorts have gone before,including most recently.
    very informed. probably wasting yer time spell checking "f-u".

    hate Thornton's role?  5th most goals on the team.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]Do you guys really watch hockey? the phrase is "do you wanna go?" most h.w. bouts start with chatting. this isnt the 70's. anybody (almost) on this board would know boults and thorts have gone before,including most recently. very informed. probably wasting yer time spell checking "f-u". hate Thornton's role?  5th most goals on the team.
    Posted by 86redsox[/QUOTE]

    If you don't know the difference between the 70s fights which started with an angry "ya wanna go?" and the "excuse me, sir.  I was wondering if you have the kind courtesy to drop my gloves for a slight bit of the gentleman's science.  If now is not a good time, please let me know if later might work for you better," then you should stick to your baseball watching.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: where were you?

    Is there any relation to the heated practice the Bruins had before the Thrashers game and the team being in a rut, with Thorton dropping the gloves ? Trying to show emotion ?  That being said, the 4th line is one of the better 4th lines in the NHL and until that changes why would you want to change that ? They are playing well from what I see. I would think a look at the other lines would be more in order. Go Bruins

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: where were you?

    In Response to Re: where were you?:
    [QUOTE]NAS: They aren't frauds, they're human beings. Pscyhology is a huge part of sports from everyone's perspective (fans, coaches, players, etc). If your life is made with millions in the bank, fame, popularity, etc, etc, it might be hard to get motivated. But if your buddy, who makes way less, is throwing down and getting his face re-arranged, you probably wake up.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    But wasnt that NAS' point?  He said essentially that if the B's have to watch a staged fight (even if it was staged "for a point" like waking up your team) to get into playing with passion, they they ARE frauds.

    It true that its possible pro players get into comfort zones and get lazy, but its emotional, sincere reactions to cheap shots like Myers's that makes people respond and other jump on board... not watching Thornton dance at the opening faceoff because he felt it was his job to "call out" the other goon for the sake of artificial motivation.

    NAS is completely right.  There is zero value to that. Its not hockey, I played most of my hockey in the 70s in "Slapshot"-like leagues and there was never a fight that was staged like that... and it wouldnt have been an emotional lift, either.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: where were you?

    I make $3,000,000 a year, but the only way to get me to really try is to let me watch some boxer on skates fake fight with another boxer on skates.

    FRAUD.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: where were you?

    Crosby vs. Niskanen...November 2010...staged? You can be sure Crosby wanted to send a message and he did. It falls within this board's definition of staged, at least from Crosby's perspective.

    Did it have a point? Yes. Was it effective? Yes. Do I want to see Crosby fight? No, but the guy is a leader and recognized that fighting would have an impact.

    Obviously you will say that Thornton is no Crosby and that's the difference in the fight's effectiveness on team psychology, but even if you make that argument, you've conceded that a fight can get a team going. It's not Thornton's fault that until the shi* hits the fan, he's basically the only guy who's willing to do it (McQuaid, too)...every game, regardless of opponent, and, yes, with some class.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: where were you?

    Also, won't be able to respond as I have won the lottery (not really) and going on vacation (not really, Iraq, but not a soldier). Don't think I am giving up on Thornton and the 4th line, just out of communication for the next few days.

    I will be checking this site infrequently, so keep me posted on how the boys are playing (you know the scores mean nothing)....to balance things out, maybe have Stanley, Bookboy, and NAS all provide comments.

    Anyway, enjoyed the debates throughout 2010, and hope you're all having an awesome holidays!


     

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