Why I hate these NHL playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    I don't consider the Boston Bruins to be a defensive style team at all. I consider them to be a dominant team at both ends. They are consistently top 5 in scoring and preventing goals. They are not more excellent in defense than they are in offense. PP% is irrelevant, as it doesn't matter when you score goals during a game, but how many. You mention the other recent champs as being more offensively talented, but it doesn't hold true. The offensive output of all three champs is similar in their cup runs. You seem to think that top-end talent is somehow better than talent depth. The end result is the same if the goal totals are the same. Those other champs also relied heavily on the defensive side of things too. It's arguable that Chicago's greatest strength when it won was not it's forwards, but a defense lead by Keith, Seabrook, Campbell et. al.

    lol, thanks for the Juneau props.


    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : common man, let's be honest, you know what I'm saying.  We had historically great goaltending, and a historically bad powerplay.  Very good 5 on 5 scoring, but we are defensive style team, is that a debate?  Claude is a d zone first coach.  I'm not saying we are a trap team or hunker down in the slot like Dale Hunter's squad.  Any team with Claude at the helm, the best goalie in the league, the best defensive defenseman, and two way shut down center in the league, coupled with one of the worst PP's is not exactly the Blackhawks or Penguins. One thing we can agree upon, you were rocking the best avitars on the site w Joey Juneau pics.
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    You are full of yourself and presumptuous. You have no idea what I do or who I am. Stating you played goalie for 30 years means nothing, since I haven't brought up what I do or what my knowledge is. Perhaps I have played goalie for 40 years, 10 of which were in the NHL. It is still irrelevant in this discussion. If it was, I would say you should comment on nothing but goaltending from now on. This isn't an attack on goalies as people so you need to relax. Goalie shin pads are 11" wide. No goalie in the NHL has 11" wide shins. The pads are the shape they are to stop pucks, not to protect. The pads should be narrower, and protect the sides of the player's legs. The problem with the boring hockey is not the goaltenders, it's the strategy, this is true. But the strategy exists because it works. It works because average NHL goaltenders in the butterfly can stop a large percentage of pucks by simply squatting there. By playing the odds and putting a bunch of other players in the way of the shooter, not many shots will reach the back of the net. If you give shooters an additional 8 square feet to shoot at, the odds of winning with a collapse strategy is reduced. It will no longer make sense to sit back and allow 40+ low percentage shots a game because some of them will go in. This will force teams become more aggressive, and open up the game. FYI, I'm a strong advocate of changing all equipment. Smaller, softer pads for players playing out, and wooden/aluminum sticks as well. I don't think that advancements in equipment have made the game better, or safer. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam


    I think the advancement of equipment has made the game safer in some regards because I cant see players wearing old style equipment diving in front of Chara slap shots.  Then again, you got players like David Perron bumping into Thornton and going out with a concussion because of the armor like shoulder pads.

    As for the goalie equipment, I saw above soemone mentioned the chest protector, stand in front of a slap shot and let it hit you in the heart and rib area, you still feel it. You need soemthing that provides protection without compromising mobility. Marty Brodeur, who will never be accused of wearing excessive gear actually was told to trim his chest protection a few years back after the lockout. He said he would not change, but would try to modify his current one and and basically told them if they did not like it then too bad. He pointed out how with the change to players sticks was a growing concern to netminders. Players shots were getting significantly faster due to changing the technology in wich sticks were made. He cited a safety concern and went before the group of people (Shanahan etc..) that were in the commitee trying to open up the game. He won.
    Pads were cut back from 12" to 11', i think thats fine. Lots of pads have a plus sizing adding an inch or two in length, I know Manny Legace went as high as 3". that is due to butterfly and closes up the 5-hole.
    The gloves and blockers, before the lockout that was out of control. They were getting far too big with the gloves having too much blocker like padding from the cuff to the wrist.

    I think the equioment is fine for now, it evolved due to the butterfly and technology of sticks, most protection without compromising mobilty and can handle water and sweat.

    To me style of play is a the biggest issue, when Ovechkin is playing 2 minutes in the final period of a playoff game with one goal seperating the two teams that tells you all you need to know about where todays game is heading.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    I wasn't saying pad size was the main factor is the decrease in goal scoring, but it is a partial factor to be sure, and I never played a lick of goal to determine this. I don't think there is any debate that the neutral zone trap has become the offensive zone trap and that is that main reason for the dearth of offense. But decreasing the size of the pads is an ancillary action that could be taken to assist in offensive production for the league. I think decreasing the size of the equipment would be a fairly unintrusive and easily implemented step to take. If Dryden had pads the size of Holtby, Hiller, or Thomas et al, and a glove the size of Jacoby Ellsbury, his lifetime GAA would be around 0.05. But no one is saying goalie pad size is the main component in this defense first NHL that is the playoffs.

    I think the much larger issue is the armour the players are allowed to wear these days. The concussions are a huge problem for the league and they should take the hard plastic out before someone gets paralyzed or killed.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : When you talk about goaltenders your out of your league.  My trig is fine and the fact that I've played for 30 years gives me a little edge over you in this department.  If the goaltending was reducing scoring so much then how come we havent had a 2-1 All_Star game? Even before the equipment was reduced, what were the scores of the All-Star games? Cause I'm pretty sure the goaltenders are out their still playing the way they always do, they dont want to be emabarassed. Posted by kelvana33


    Goaltenders could care less about the score of an All Star Game as no one is trying so equipment means nothing in any era. Surprising statement from someone with so much experience.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Goaltenders could care less about the score of an All Star Game as no one is trying so equipment means nothing in any era. Surprising statement from someone with so much experience.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    I was trying to say how because of the style of play in an all star game is why scoring is so high. I just dont think the size of goalies equipment is the biggest reason for low scoring. My point is, if players have the room, scoring goes up.
    I do think goalies do care about how many they let up in an All_star game, they have some pride.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    The forwards are bigger, faster and better shots, yet scoring is way down from 1995 or 1985.  Even their sticks are better, yet scoring is down.  The problem is that there isn't as much net to shoot at anymore.  It's insane to say that goaltending equipment isn't a major factor.  Let's ask Jimmy Howard if his gear makes him a little bigger in the net.








     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    The forwards are bigger, faster and better shots, yet scoring is way down from 1995 or 1985.  Even their sticks are better, yet scoring is down.  The problem is that there isn't as much net to shoot at anymore.  It's insane to say that goaltending equipment isn't a major factor.  Let's ask Jimmy Howard if his gear makes him a little bigger in the net.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Good point. I was watching the Phoenix/Nash game last night and marvelling how much of the net 6 foot 5 215 pound Rinne covered. I mean it was ridiculous. He did not have to move a muscle and still be a shield for 99% of the cage. Add the equipment to his large frame and it is obvious why scoring in games is so low for sure.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    The forwards are bigger, faster and better shots, yet scoring is way down from 1995 or 1985.  Even their sticks are better, yet scoring is down.  The problem is that there isn't as much net to shoot at anymore.  It's insane to say that goaltending equipment isn't a major factor.  Let's ask Jimmy Howard if his gear makes him a little bigger in the net.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Ryan Miller is a better example, he is a toothpick. Not saying it has zero to do with the scoring down, and obviously I am totally biased here. But wouldn't you agree that the style of play is the major factor?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    "Good point. I was watching the Phoenix/Nash game last night and marvelling how much of the net 6 foot 5 215 pound Rinne covered"

    How about Ben Bishop? even without pads he covers the entire net. He can be in the butterfly and his shoulders are still equal with the crossbar.

    There is no sense lamenting how big, fast, and strong the player are today, it's just part of the game. I just hope it doesn't become like basketball, in where the players actually have grown too big for the game itself.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Ryan Miller is a better example, he is a toothpick. Not saying it has zero to do with the scoring down, and obviously I am totally biased here. But wouldn't you agree that the style of play is the major factor?
    Posted by kelvana33


    The style of play is a factor, but I don't see it as great of a factor as the goaltender gear. 

    To a point above, the statement of goaltenders "feeling it" when they get hit by a shot was mentioned.  Well, good!  They should.  If it hurts too much, get a quicker glove.  There shouldn't be any pain from leg saves, glove saves or waffle blocks.  The rest of it should sting once in a while.  Skaters block shots and get hurt all the time.  Goalies used to be hardcore men.  They'd take pucks off the face and not even leave the crease.  Now, we're worried about a goaltender getting a bruise.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    "Good point. I was watching the Phoenix/Nash game last night and marvelling how much of the net 6 foot 5 215 pound Rinne covered" How about Ben Bishop? even without pads he covers the entire net. He can be in the butterfly and his shoulders are still equal with the crossbar. There is no sense lamenting how big, fast, and strong the player are today, it's just part of the game. I just hope it doesn't become like basketball, in where the players actually have grown too big for the game itself.
    Posted by seobrien


    Agreed. Players are getting bigger, that is the way of things. It's the pads that make it mindboggling. Bishop and Rinne in pads the size they were 20 years ago is fine. But both of those monsters in todays inflated equipment and pads so wide they cover the whole bottom of the net and the 5-hole simultaneously is just ridiculous.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    I just think it's a bunch of factors. Even the fact that the players are bigger plays a small role with less room on the ice. Also, the equipment players wear has at least doubled in size over the years. We can argue it all day and you guys bring up valid points but for me it's the defensive style of play over the past years that has brought scoring down. Reducing the goalie equipment will generate scoring but will up the entertainment. For me, I'd like to see the game open up and give all these talented players room to show off their skill. The game needs more flow.

    Bob Gainey a few years back when the league was trying to open up the game suggested not allowing players to leave their feet to block a shot. I'd like to see them try this. That would open stuff up.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Last night after my game that's exactly what I said after learning Yotes won 1-0.

    Viva il KINGS !
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Yeah, another horrible 3 periods of skating in mud and blocked shots watching that "game" last niight between Pho/Nash.  I'm with Kel, there's a lot of factors but I believe the #1 is the very intentional strategy of the coaching.  Despite the poist lockout rule changes, the game is crawling to a halt like it was before the lockout.  I think the Bruins' success last year contributed to that development.

    Kinda hoping to see LA/Philly in the Final, just because they seem to be less likely to play this awful style.  Games playing like NYR, Wash, NJ, Pho and Nashville are unwatchable.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    More quality scoring chances = more goals. Simple as that. Look at the Capitals penalty kill right now. Four guys collapsing in front of the net, sticks in passing lanes and all four ready to block everything that goes towards the net. 5 0n 5 it's basically th same thing, clog up the middle of the defensive zone.

    I know you guys hate the example, but the size of the equipment is never an issue come All-Star weekend. If these players are given the space the scoring goes up. I realize it's an extreme example theres no hitting etc..and I wouldnt want to see the game played like that, just saying if it opened up even to 30% of that, there would be more goals and more exciting hockey.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    More quality scoring chances = more goals. Simple as that. Look at the Capitals penalty kill right now. Four guys collapsing in front of the net, sticks in passing lanes and all four ready to block everything that goes towards the net. 5 0n 5 it's basically th same thing, clog up the middle of the defensive zone. I know you guys hate the example, but the size of the equipment is never an issue come All-Star weekend. If these players are given the space the scoring goes up. I realize it's an extreme example theres no hitting etc..and I wouldnt want to see the game played like that, just saying if it opened up even to 30% of that, there would be more goals and more exciting hockey.
    Posted by kelvana33


    You know what breaks that type of D? Determination to out-compete the defenders in the dirty areas by the opposing forwards. That's what. Once you go up a couple of goals then even the most defensive team has to start opening up and that's when the Hunter-like defensive system falls apart.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    The style of play is the primary factor. The problem is the style of play only works if your goaltender can stop 95% of the shots coming their way. As it stands, too many goaltenders are able to do that because their shin pads take away 2/3's of the net. Make it a little easier to slip a puck passed a goalie, teams will get scored on and not be able to sit back and collapse, they will attack, the style of the game will change.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Ryan Miller is a better example, he is a toothpick. Not saying it has zero to do with the scoring down, and obviously I am totally biased here. But wouldn't you agree that the style of play is the major factor?
    Posted by kelvana33

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    More quality scoring chances = more goals. Simple as that. Look at the Capitals penalty kill right now. Four guys collapsing in front of the net, sticks in passing lanes and all four ready to block everything that goes towards the net. 5 0n 5 it's basically th same thing, clog up the middle of the defensive zone. I know you guys hate the example, but the size of the equipment is never an issue come All-Star weekend. If these players are given the space the scoring goes up. I realize it's an extreme example theres no hitting etc..and I wouldnt want to see the game played like that, just saying if it opened up even to 30% of that, there would be more goals and more exciting hockey.
    Posted by kelvana33


    The All-Star game is not NHL hockey.  The example is false.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    The real solution would be to make the rink and the net bigger. But that is obviously not feasible. We'd better get used to 30-50 blocked shots a game in the playoffs. Unfortunately, as Coach Belichick would say, "It is what it is".
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    You could add 20 feet in every direction to the rink and it won't matter since all 5 defenders are in front of the net and not going anywhere anyway. You would have to add 8 square feet to the net to increase the shooting area the equivalent of reducing goalie shin pads 1" in width.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    The real solution would be to make the rink and the net bigger. But that is obviously not feasible. We'd better get used to 30-50 blocked shots a game in the playoffs. Unfortunately, as Coach Belichick would say, "It is what it is".
    Posted by seobrien

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
     
    Games playing like NYR, Wash, NJ, Pho and Nashville are unwatchable.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL


    True. I'm finding it tough to get into for lack of a better expression.  Right now it's largely chip 'n chase hockey at it's best - or worst.  I loved the often edge-of-your-seat action of the NYR/Sens.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : The All-Star game is not NHL hockey.  The example is false.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I realize this and am so biased to keep blame off the goalies I don't even make sense to myself sometimes.

    Back to the original thread topic, though the playoffs have not been nearly exciting it did have a tough shoe to fill after what we saw last year. Add that and a low scoring series against the defensive minded Caps and you get some unimpressed Bruins fans.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    You could add 20 feet in every direction to the rink and it won't matter since all 5 defenders are in front of the net and not going anywhere anyway. You would have to add 8 square feet to the net to increase the shooting area the equivalent of reducing goalie shin pads 1" in width. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam


    I agree with the pads and net front D being overboard (it all started with Mtl beating top seeded Wash a few years back in that huge upset).

    If you added that 20 feet in all parts of the rink it would open up the ice and make for greater puck movement and players like Seguin, stamkos etc would be dangerous with their speed.  It would nulify the ability to trap in the neutral zone, making puck movement through the middle easier and adding that room in the offensive zone would allow players to move the puck around a stationary defense with more ease.  I think olympic style ice surfaces would also help open things up with these guys being so big and fast now a days. 

    More space and pad alterning would be help chnage the all out shot block or trap strategies.  Changing pad sizes doesn't change the clogging net fronts directly either, but the combination of these would create more time and space allowing offensive attackers to use their skills and playmaking ability to open up shots.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Agreed. Players are getting bigger, that is the way of things. It's the pads that make it mindboggling. Bishop and Rinne in pads the size they were 20 years ago is fine. But both of those monsters in todays inflated equipment and pads so wide they cover the whole bottom of the net and the 5-hole simultaneously is just ridiculous.
    Posted by jmwalters


    Absolutely true. Look at how Dryden had to play back in the 70s- He was one of the rare guys as big as Rinne but he had to be tremenously athletic to play goal at the level he did.  There was none of this dropping to his knees, "staying square to the shooter" and absorbing shots nonstop.

    Dont get me started on the IDIOTIC comparison of Holtby stopping 35 wrist shots from the top of the circles and what Dryden did as a rookie.

    The difference between these huge goalies and their Michelin man equipment filling up the net compared to guys from the 70's/80's who were 5' 10" goalies with Kenesky pads and Cooper GM12 gloves and arm/shoulder pads that were less bulky than a Bill Cosby ugly sweater is mind boggling in what they had to do to keep the puck out.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Absolutely true. Look at how Dryden had to play back in the 70s- He was one of the rare guys as big as Rinne but he had to be tremenously athletic to play goal at the level he did.  There was none of this dropping to his knees, "staying square to the shooter" and absorbing shots nonstop. Dont get me started on the IDIOTIC comparison of Holtby stopping 35 wrist shots from the top of the circles and what Dryden did as a rookie. The difference between these huge goalies and their Michelin man equipment filling up the net compared to guys from the 70's/80's who were 5' 10" goalies with Kenesky pads and Cooper GM12 gloves and arm/shoulder pads that were less bulky than a Bill Cosby ugly sweater is mind boggling in what they had to do to keep the puck out.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL


    Thank you. I do not see how a reduction in the size of equipment can possibly be a healthrisk. Whoever, and I am too lazy to look it  up, stated that no matter the size of the person or the composite of the stick goal scoring has decreased, is absolutetely right. It is the ridiculous non-regulation of goalie equipment that is the prime reason for the lack of goals.

    Simple equation; more opportunity for goals means a difference in defensive strategy and, hence, more excitement. Let's be honest, there is nothing more gratifying to those who pay money to watch the game than more goals scored.

    Conclusion: reduce the size of goalie equipment.
     
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