Why I hate these NHL playoffs

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]The Flyers are the lone exciting team. Games involving them are great. They score and can be scored on... it's exciting for both sides. Everything else is garbage. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]
    And to top it off their goalie makes every save an adventure.Unfortunately a team doesn't get style points for every win, they just want to win and the end justifies the means.The three Cup wins by New Jersey are proof of that, as any Devil fan will likely say it was great, exciting,end to end hockey.Washington tried for years to win with high end,damn the torpedoes style offence and it got them nowhere, so now we are left with this.

    Everyone looks at things differently depending on the results, as any Nuck fan will tell you.I've had many Nuck fans tell me that the only reason the B's won was because of thuggery and the refs not calling the games right, i on the other hand didn't see it that way. I saw it as the Bruins were the better team,which they were.The end justifies the means, right ?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Change is required by the league. Another thought that popped into my head is returning the blueline to its previous place closer to each net. It was moved to help counteract the trap, but the result is that it's hard for wings to cover the points. To deal with that teams started collapsing and allowing point men (they were farther away anyway) to shoot, focusing instead on blocking and clearing rebounds. If the blueline was closer, the point shots would be closer and more dangerous, it would make more sense to cover the points again, and that in turn would bring a couple players out of the cluster f*** in front of the net. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    Good thought OC, I'll be thinking that one for a while now.



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Exactly why I hope the rangers nashville or st louis dont win, please don't promote anymore def and slowing it down to win championships.  We had a great run where pit, det, chi etc won championships on the backs of elite skilled players, then we won with goaltending and clogging things up/seids chara no pp etc.  While det pit and chi all play good D, they didn't do so by neglecting the other end of the ice.  La/Philly final would be great
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    The Bruins have been one of the very highest scoring teams in the NHL for 5 years now, and were the highest scoring team in the '11 playoffs. They were the only team with 6 20-goal scorers this year. Saying they won with goaltending, D and clogging is absolutely false. They are one of the league's most offensively talented teams.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Exactly why I hope the rangers nashville or st louis dont win, please don't promote anymore def and slowing it down to win championships.  We had a great run where pit, det, chi etc won championships on the backs of elite skilled players, then we won with goaltending and clogging things up/seids chara no pp etc.  While det pit and chi all play good D, they didn't do so by neglecting the other end of the ice.  La/Philly final would be great
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    The problem is not the space on the ice, but the space in front of the net, and the space of the net. You could add 10 feet in all directions and Washington wouldn't have left a skate scratch in it in this most recent series. The one thing the Bruins did that finally worked was in game 6 they brought 1 forward high. This removed one obstacle from the front of the net (Boston's own player) and encouraged one of the Washington players to come out and challenge, removing another object you need to get shots around. Right now it's too far for wings to rush the points with any effectiveness. They are better of clustering around the goal. Bringing the D closer means a more aggressive defensive strategy might be effective... wings could pick off passes to the d or strip them of the puck. This would open up the front of the net more.

    The other thing of course is to reduce the goalie pads. When it's easier to score you can't sit back and cluster in front of the net. It won't lead to victory. Pucks will squeak in through the goalie's smaller pads. In our most recent example, some of Boston's ridiculous number of shots would have gone in, forcing Washington to actually try to score and maybe give one of the games finest players more than 15 minutes of icetime.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : We agree something has to change, but wonder about the blue line moving in.  Although it brings the shooter closer to the net, that shooter is much easier to defend against, and 10 guys would be working in an even more confined space. I'm not sure "space" isn't the biggest problem nowadays. It's a real tough fix, and one I think will warant fundamental change.   The toughie is...none of us really wants to see fundamental change. We want things to stay the same, and the distatesful stuff to just disappear. Too bad it wasn't feasible to make the ice surface a little bigger.  I'm sure many will disagree, but I feel strongly that the old Garden, was a great friend to the skinflints steering the ship post 1975.  Those "lunchpail" teams(translation, one good line)would have been less successful on a bigger ice surface.  Opposite(although minimally so) with Edmonton on a smaller one.   Personally, I think we would potentially see the absolute the best the sport has to offer,  4 on 4. Your suggestion of nets or goalie equipment might do it too.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]The problem is not the space on the ice, but the space in front of the net, and the space of the net. You could add 10 feet in all directions and Washington wouldn't have left a skate scratch in it in this most recent series. The one thing the Bruins did that finally worked was in game 6 they brought 1 forward high. This removed one obstacle from the front of the net (Boston's own player) and encouraged one of the Washington players to come out and challenge, removing another object you need to get shots around. Right now it's too far for wings to rush the points with any effectiveness. They are better of clustering around the goal. Bringing the D closer means a more aggressive defensive strategy might be effective... wings could pick off passes to the d or strip them of the puck. This would open up the front of the net more. The other thing of course is to reduce the goalie pads. When it's easier to score you can't sit back and cluster in front of the net. It won't lead to victory. Pucks will squeak in through the goalie's smaller pads. In our most recent example, some of Boston's ridiculous number of shots would have gone in, forcing Washington to actually try to score and maybe give one of the games finest players more than 15 minutes of icetime. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]


    I totally agree with you. on the problem being in front of the net. They really should consider making the nets wider, because I don't see how you address this with rule changes (like making an illegal defense similar to basketball)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    it is awful, even the Bruins/Caps games were dull, i wish the NHL could come up with a rule to change this type of play somehow. if i was shooting into a cluster**** of players trying to block the shot i would shoot it head high repeatedly until they got smart and got out of the way.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Trimming the goalie pads 1 more inch (they went from 12" to 11 in '05, shanahan wanted 10, the goalies objected) would create about 8 more square feet of shooting space when the goalie is out from the net and in the butterfly. That would do the trick without changing the nets.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : I totally agree with you. on the problem being in front of the net. They really should consider making the nets wider, because I don't see how you address this with rule changes (like making an illegal defense similar to basketball)
    Posted by Olsonic[/QUOTE]
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Wasn't that discussed by the league a few years ago when they decided to legislate the size of some goalie equipment? I guess that went nowhere.

    I remember during those talks that Luongo said he might as well retire if it was mandated that goalie equipment be reduced in size. Maybe in hindsight Vancouver would have supported such a move and save $5 million per season owed to Roberto for the next decade?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonic. Show Olsonic's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]I remember during those talks that Luongo said he might as well retire if it was mandated that goalie equipment be reduced in size. Maybe in hindsight Vancouver would have supported such a move and save $5 million per season owed to Roberto for the next decade?
    Posted by jmwalters[/QUOTE]

    LOL! good call, I had forgotten about that. I could see them lobbying for the move now.

    as far as reducing the size of the goalie pads too, that seems like a reasonable approach. Maybe you could also make it illegal to fully drop down like a beached whale  to block a shot.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    I totally agree. The size of those pads now are just ridiculous. Makes the goalies of the 70's and early 80's look like little children or midgets (no offense to any midgets out there).

    While on the topic of reducing the size of equipment, maybe the league can ban the use of football shoulderpads for players as well. would definitely reduce the number of concussions and other injuries.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from seobrien. Show seobrien's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]I totally agree. The size of those pads now are just ridiculous. Makes the goalies of the 70's and early 80's look like little children or midgets (no offense to any midgets out there). While on the topic of reducing the size of equipment, maybe the league can ban the use of football shoulderpads for players as well. would definitely reduce the number of concussions and other injuries.
    Posted by jmwalters[/QUOTE]


    Preaching to the choir. Get rid of the shoulder and elbow armor and the game would be much safer.

    and regarding goalies
    This:


    not this:



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Preaching to the choir. Get rid of the shoulder and elbow armor and the game would be much safer. and regarding goalies This: not this:
    Posted by seobrien[/QUOTE]

    You wouldnt have any goalies by November, they'd all be dead.

    It's not the goaltender equipment that is keeping scoring down. If players these days get open ice and offensive oppurtunities the scoring is fine. See Philly-Pitt Round 1 for proof.

    it's systems, it's easier to coach defensive hockey, it's that simple. Look at a forward from those days as oppsed to one these days. Think many of those players would be sprawling on the ice blocking shots in todays game.

    Blaming the goaltender equipment for todays style of play is convenient and uneducated.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from lambda13. Show lambda13's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Kelv we know you love goalies. Reducing the size of the equipment slightly would be a start.

    The main issue is player equipment. Get rid of the armor. Make it so that there is a bigger price to pay for laying out and blocking a shot.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]Kelv we know you love goalies. Reducing the size of the equipment slightly would be a start. The main issue is player equipment. Get rid of the armor. Make it so that there is a bigger price to pay for laying out and blocking a shot.
    Posted by lambda13[/QUOTE]

    Agree, I'd worry more about the style of play in front of the goalies, I see the game going back to the pre-lockout days.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : You wouldnt have any goalies by November, they'd all be dead. It's not the goaltender equipment that is keeping scoring down. If players these days get open ice and offensive oppurtunities the scoring is fine. See Philly-Pitt Round 1 for proof. it's systems, it's easier to coach defensive hockey, it's that simple. Look at a forward from those days as oppsed to one these days. Think many of those players would be sprawling on the ice blocking shots in todays game. Blaming the goaltender equipment for todays style of play is convenient and uneducated.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
    The problem with using this series as proof is that both goalies stunk up the joint,it didn't really matter what system they were playing.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : You wouldnt have any goalies by November, they'd all be dead. It's not the goaltender equipment that is keeping scoring down. If players these days get open ice and offensive oppurtunities the scoring is fine. See Philly-Pitt Round 1 for proof. it's systems, it's easier to coach defensive hockey, it's that simple. Look at a forward from those days as oppsed to one these days. Think many of those players would be sprawling on the ice blocking shots in todays game. Blaming the goaltender equipment for todays style of play is convenient and uneducated.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
    Kel, the puck and net have been the same size for a long time now. Goalie equipment has gotten far bigger. I'm not going to say it's the only reason that it's harder to score now but it's one of them.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    If it was easier to score, teams would use a strategy to attack and shoot more. Saying that goalie equipment is not a factor is completely uneducated. Every 1" of width added to goalie shin pads reduces the shooting area by about 8 square feet when a goalie is in the butterfly position a few feet out from the net. Perhaps you need to educate yourself in trigonometry and perspective. The NHL trimmed an inch after the lockout already. It had a great effect on the game, unless you were one of the less athletic, strictly positional goalies like Andrew Raycroft. Trimming another inch would be dramatic. With modern materials and skills it would be no problem to make equipment that was thinner but just as protective. It could be a wrap-around pad that fully protected goalies' legs but aided less in stopping the puck.

    Braydon Holtby, Mike Smith and Brian Elliot are not great athletes by NHL standards. They are playing behind smart coaches and committed defences. If their pads were thinner and it was easier to slip a puck by an average goaltender if you fired 45 shots on goal, teams would have to stop allowing 45 shots and actually try to create some offensive pressure. If your team is built around a star goalie, you should have a defensive strategy. If your team is built around a 60+ goal scorer, you should be attacking. As it stands, any half-decent goalie can stop pucks too easily by standing in position, so all teams are going defensive. Make it harder to stop pucks, make teams try and score more, open the game up.

    That said, I think the NHL is also starting to allow too much obstruction again, which doesn't help matters. But I think the two biggest things they can do to counter the collapse defence are move the blue line in and reduce goalie shin pads. The whole principle of the strategy is to put as many obstacles between the shooter and goal as possible. The best way to make it less effective is to reduce the size and number of those obstacles.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : Agree, I'd worry more about the style of play in front of the goalies, I see the game going back to the pre-lockout days.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]The Bruins have been one of the very highest scoring teams in the NHL for 5 years now, and were the highest scoring team in the '11 playoffs. They were the only team with 6 20-goal scorers this year. Saying they won with goaltending, D and clogging is absolutely false. They are one of the league's most offensively talented teams. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    common man, let's be honest, you know what I'm saying.  We had historically great goaltending, and a historically bad powerplay.  Very good 5 on 5 scoring, but we are defensive style team, is that a debate?  Claude is a d zone first coach.  I'm not saying we are a trap team or hunker down in the slot like Dale Hunter's squad. 

    Any team with Claude at the helm, the best goalie in the league, the best defensive defenseman, and two way shut down center in the league, coupled with one of the worst PP's is not exactly the Blackhawks or Penguins.

    One thing we can agree upon, you were rocking the best avitars on the site w Joey Juneau pics.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    By the way, I'm not so sure a number of 20 goal scorers mean your a great offensive team, it just means you have spread out good (not great) talent upfront. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Wider ice surface could help create more room, these guys are just so much bigger and faster now.  The goalie gear should absolutely be cut down, skillful goalies like TT and old Marty in his day get brought back to the pack a bit when guys like Holtby are 6'4 have huge pads and butterfly away on angles.  The skaters padding is crazy now too, elbows and shin pads that are wrapped in 8 layers of padding but just as light as the old gear makes for body armor to block or go in with reckless abandoned.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]If it was easier to score, teams would use a strategy to attack and shoot more. Saying that goalie equipment is not a factor is completely uneducated. Every 1" of width added to goalie shin pads reduces the shooting area by about 8 square feet when a goalie is in the butterfly position a few feet out from the net. Perhaps you need to educate yourself in trigonometry and perspective. The NHL trimmed an inch after the lockout already. It had a great effect on the game, unless you were one of the less athletic, strictly positional goalies like Andrew Raycroft. Trimming another inch would be dramatic. With modern materials and skills it would be no problem to make equipment that was thinner but just as protective. It could be a wrap-around pad that fully protected goalies' legs but aided less in stopping the puck. Braydon Holtby, Mike Smith and Brian Elliot are not great athletes by NHL standards. They are playing behind smart coaches and committed defences. If their pads were thinner and it was easier to slip a puck by an average goaltender if you fired 45 shots on goal, teams would have to stop allowing 45 shots and actually try to create some offensive pressure. If your team is built around a star goalie, you should have a defensive strategy. If your team is built around a 60+ goal scorer, you should be attacking. As it stands, any half-decent goalie can stop pucks too easily by standing in position, so all teams are going defensive. Make it harder to stop pucks, make teams try and score more, open the game up. That said, I think the NHL is also starting to allow too much obstruction again, which doesn't help matters. But I think the two biggest things they can do to counter the collapse defence are move the blue line in and reduce goalie shin pads. The whole principle of the strategy is to put as many obstacles between the shooter and goal as possible. The best way to make it less effective is to reduce the size and number of those obstacles. In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    When you talk about goaltenders your out of your league. Mike Smith is one of the more athletic goaltenders and was the top vote getter in an SI poll when they were asked which goaltender is the best athlete. The equipment is fine, NAS stated in an earlier thread about how they make bullet proof equipment that is smaller. I wear a bullet proof vest for a living, it restricts mobility and does not take to water or sweat well. Pretty sure the people at Vaughn or RBK would have come up with soemthing by now, theres a reason they havent. And in todays equipment, you still feel it. My trig is fine and the fact that I've played for 30 years gives me a little edge over you in this department. Ilya Bryzgalov is one of the bigger goalies, hows his save percentage these playoffs?

    If you look at a previous post in this thread I said it was easier to teach players to play defensive, not offensive. I never said it was easier to score.   They've already reduced the size of equipment, limited the goaltenders from where they can play the puck. How about reducing the size of the shin pads and shoulder pads? Everyone points to the enhancement of goalie equipment when the player equipment and the composite sticks have evolved at an even faster rate. To think otherwise is just uneducated.

    If the goaltending was reducing scoring so much then how come we havent had a 2-1 All_Star game? Even before the equipment was reduced, what were the scores of the All-Star games? Cause I'm pretty sure the goaltenders are out their still playing the way they always do, they dont want to be emabarassed. it's the play in front of them that is different, hence, the goals are up.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    Well, there were two pretty damn good games tonight. Good intensity, lots of hitting, timely offense, and stars proving their worth. Perhaps there is hope yet for the 2012 playoffs?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    You are full of yourself and presumptuous. You have no idea what I do or who I am. Stating you played goalie for 30 years means nothing, since I haven't brought up what I do or what my knowledge is. Perhaps I have played goalie for 40 years, 10 of which were in the NHL. It is still irrelevant in this discussion. If it was, I would say you should comment on nothing but goaltending from now on.

    This isn't an attack on goalies as people so you need to relax. Goalie shin pads are 11" wide. No goalie in the NHL has 11" wide shins. The pads are the shape they are to stop pucks, not to protect. The pads should be narrower, and protect the sides of the player's legs.

    The problem with the boring hockey is not the goaltenders, it's the strategy, this is true. But the strategy exists because it works. It works because average NHL goaltenders in the butterfly can stop a large percentage of pucks by simply squatting there. By playing the odds and putting a bunch of other players in the way of the shooter, not many shots will reach the back of the net. If you give shooters an additional 8 square feet to shoot at, the odds of winning with a collapse strategy is reduced. It will no longer make sense to sit back and allow 40+ low percentage shots a game because some of them will go in. This will force teams become more aggressive, and open up the game.

    FYI, I'm a strong advocate of changing all equipment. Smaller, softer pads for players playing out, and wooden/aluminum sticks as well. I don't think that advancements in equipment have made the game better, or safer.

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : When you talk about goaltenders your out of your league. Mike Smith is one of the more athletic goaltenders and was the top vote getter in an SI poll when they were asked which goaltender is the best athlete. The equipment is fine, NAS stated in an earlier thread about how they make bullet proof equipment that is smaller. I wear a bullet proof vest for a living, it restricts mobility and does not take to water or sweat well. Pretty sure the people at Vaughn or RBK would have come up with soemthing by now, theres a reason they havent. And in todays equipment, you still feel it. My trig is fine and the fact that I've played for 30 years gives me a little edge over you in this department. Ilya Bryzgalov is one of the bigger goalies, hows his save percentage these playoffs? If you look at a previous post in this thread I said it was easier to teach players to play defensive, not offensive. I never said it was easier to score.   They've already reduced the size of equipment, limited the goaltenders from where they can play the puck. How about reducing the size of the shin pads and shoulder pads? Everyone points to the enhancement of goalie equipment when the player equipment and the composite sticks have evolved at an even faster rate. To think otherwise is just uneducated. If the goaltending was reducing scoring so much then how come we havent had a 2-1 All_Star game? Even before the equipment was reduced, what were the scores of the All-Star games? Cause I'm pretty sure the goaltenders are out their still playing the way they always do, they dont want to be emabarassed. it's the play in front of them that is different, hence, the goals are up.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from OrrandPapiRGods. Show OrrandPapiRGods's posts

    Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs

    In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Why I hate these NHL playoffs : You wouldnt have any goalies by November, they'd all be dead. It's not the goaltender equipment that is keeping scoring down. If players these days get open ice and offensive oppurtunities the scoring is fine. See Philly-Pitt Round 1 for proof. it's systems, it's easier to coach defensive hockey, it's that simple. Look at a forward from those days as oppsed to one these days. Think many of those players would be sprawling on the ice blocking shots in todays game. Blaming the goaltender equipment for todays style of play is convenient and uneducated.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Really. What will they die of, a shin bruise? There's way less net showing today than 30-40 years ago. So shooters have about 50% less open spaces to shoot at and you don't think this affects rates of scoring? Uneducated? How much education does it take to understand this relationship?
    Reducing the size of both player (elbow and shoulder) and goalie equipment (pads and the barrel they wear on their chests) would be a great start. Doing this would make the defensive schemes less effective and caoches wouldn't employ the tactics as much. This is not the total answer but it moves thigns in the right direction.
     
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