Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2013/05/30/phoenix-coyotes-170-million-sale-to-be-partially-funded-by-nhl/

    From the article:

    "A source close to the negotiations, who traded candor for anonymity, revealed the purchase price as $170 million. The capital structure would consist of RS&E putting in $45 million of equity, Fortress Investment Group lending $120 million (to be repaid by the fee Glendale taxpayers are going to pay the team to run the arena), and an $85 million loan from the NHL.

    The $80 million the total capital investment ($250 million) exceeds the enterprise value of the purchase ($170 million) will be used as working capital. In other words, no capital calls even if the team loses a lot of money over the next few years. In addition, the NHL is promising the new owners that they will get the maximum amount of revenue from the league’s revenue-sharing system."

     

    So Glendale taxpayers pay for $120 million of the team (plus interest), the other 29 teams are on the hook for the maximum revenue sharing amount to prop up the team, the NHL lends them $85 million so they can give the $85 million right back to the NHL, the team gets propped up with a $70 million slush fund to cover losses, and the new owners have to only front 26.5 per cent of the purchase price.

     

    How does this sound like a fiscally responsible set up?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    The Phoenix Coyotes franchise is becoming the funniest thing to ever happen in NHL history.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Becoming? I think it hit that point long ago.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Also, since Glendale never covered the losses for the 2013 season, the NHL is selling the team at a loss.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    It's fine.  It's almost like an advertising budget.  In a 30 finger hand, not every finger will be made of gold.  As long as most are, the ones that aren't can get some help.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    It's fine.  It's almost like an advertising budget.  In a 30 finger hand, not every finger will be made of gold.  As long as most are, the ones that aren't can get some help.

     

     



    Thats true, but at some point when that finger is becomming more and more gangrenous, and starting to kill the hand, and making it all smelly, and discolored, and gross....wait, what was the point i was trying to make again?

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    The Coyotes aren't killing anything.  A $3.2B company has to cough up a few hundred mil. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Honest question NAS, do you think the league would be/would have been better off to keep trying to keep the 'Yotes in Glendale, or to relocate?

     
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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to DaveyN's comment:

    Honest question NAS, do you think the league would be/would have been better off to keep trying to keep the 'Yotes in Glendale, or to relocate?




    Everyone says that Quebec City needs/deserves a team.  Hamilton needs/deserves a team.  From a marketing standpoint, they certainly do not.  Those cities and surroundings are as hockey as hockey comes.

    If the NHL pulls the Coyotes out of Arizona, that's it.  The sport is dead in the southwest USA.  It won't be talked about.  It won't be on TV.  It won't exist.  That's at least 6.5M who won't be following much hockey.

    Yeah, there will still be hockey fans in Arizona, but there won't be many new ones.

    From a marketing standpoint, the team there and losing money is much better than a team in Quebec City.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Marketing is part of why I think Seattle's a good option

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hanrahan1. Show Hanrahan1's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    I give the Coyotes 2 to 3 years top. After then it should be Seattle or Quebec.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    I was looking over the attendance figures on ESPN.  The B's seem right at 17,565/100%.  The Coyotes were at 13,923/81.3%. 

    But, they also have Florida listed at 16,991/99.7%.  What a farce!  There were night that my friend and I were the only people in our SECTION.  That's giving away a ton of tickets, I guess.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    I was looking over the attendance figures on ESPN.  The B's seem right at 17,565/100%.  The Coyotes were at 13,923/81.3%. 

    But, they also have Florida listed at 16,991/99.7%.  What a farce!  There were night that my friend and I were the only people in our SECTION.  That's giving away a ton of tickets, I guess.




    Yeah, I've been looking at the attendance numbers for years and with the lower end teams they never seem to mesh with reality. Even that 81.3 per cent number has been massaged.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    And NAS it's not so much the league spending/loaning the cash that bugs me - it's the tax payers spending 120 million plus interest to help the team be bought and a lease agreement that is three times market value.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    It's an outright lie.  Some weekday games when I was down there, the top 10 rows of the side balcony seats were covered with tarps.  Both Leafs games, both Habs games and the B's game were pretty packed, but even then, not close to 99.7%!

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to red75's comment:

    Marketing is part of why I think Seattle's a good option




    Seattle has a building, with suites,  they could put the Yotes in while another one is being built. Quebec does not have a building currently going that has suites.

    If Seattle doen't win the race I would be pretty suprised.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to red75's comment:

    And NAS it's not so much the league spending/loaning the cash that bugs me - it's the tax payers spending 120 million plus interest to help the team be bought and a lease agreement that is three times market value.




    I am categorically against public funds for private enterprise.  Plain and simple.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Short-term loans I don't have a problem with, as long as there is an aspect that is in the public's interest - for example the small (proportionally to the overall cost - I think it was $28 million) that was given by the city of Winnipeg and the Province of Manitoba to get the MTS Centre built. The loan has since been paid back with inflation adjustments - yes, the owners got a break on interest rates, but there no long term cost to the taxpayer since inflation was accounted for.

    But beyond that? I think it's a waste of tax money. Glendale is one of the worst examples - paying someone to manage the Arena $15 million a year? And the managing company keeps any and all profit from the venue? That's nuts.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    I'm sure there is a lot more to it than just, "Hey, I'll give you 15 mil to watch this joint."

    Cities investing for gain is fine with me.  Cities footing the bill for private teams (see:  Miami) is not.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    In response to red75's comment:

     

    Marketing is part of why I think Seattle's a good option




     

    Seattle has a building, with suites,  they could put the Yotes in while another one is being built. Quebec does not have a building currently going that has suites.

    If Seattle doen't win the race I would be pretty suprised.



    I thought bettman said quebec would be the next city.  QC is my pick.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    NHL buyout is the best solution.  It is the way of the USA now, why not?  Hockey will always have revenue sort of like cell phones in the dead market era.  The NHL will grow out of the mess created by the "genius" of the NHLPA and NHL circa 1990.  Crystal clear persuasion.    

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    Propping up a team in AZ makes more geographic sense to me than having 2 FL teams, IMO.

    I will say, I went to a Wings/Yotes game in AZ and that rink was beautiful. New, very easy to access and even easier to park. I enjoyed the physical experience better than several other NHL cities I've visited.  Losing that venue would be a shame.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wow - Coyotes sale is worse than I thought

    In response to SoxFanInIL's comment:

    Propping up a team in AZ makes more geographic sense to me than having 2 FL teams, IMO.

    I will say, I went to a Wings/Yotes game in AZ and that rink was beautiful. New, very easy to access and even easier to park. I enjoyed the physical experience better than several other NHL cities I've visited.  Losing that venue would be a shame.

     




    Beat it, you traitor/liar.  No one cares about your opinion.  Your opinion is that the Bruins are gutless pukee chokers who should be called the Blewits, right?

    Get gone.

     
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