For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

In response to perrysound's comment:

I guess Lidstrom was that important.

I know it's early but their GA is horrible, and they aren't lighting it up either. I didn't think there would be this big a drop off, and it is still early, but I can see some big trades to unload coming from Motown. I'm not going to speculate, but should be interesting to see if they put their heads in the sand like Calgary, or accept the fact they are old and have many valuable assets to trade. Franzen anyone?

I'd take the Mule 10x over! Great play-off guy; I know I'm dreamin, but everybody's got to dream.

In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:

In response to perrysound's comment:

I guess Lidstrom was that important.

I know it's early but their GA is horrible, and they aren't lighting it up either. I didn't think there would be this big a drop off, and it is still early, but I can see some big trades to unload coming from Motown. I'm not going to speculate, but should be interesting to see if they put their heads in the sand like Calgary, or accept the fact they are old and have many valuable assets to trade. Franzen anyone?

I'd take the Mule 10x over! Great play-off guy; I know I'm dreamin, but everybody's got to dream.

What I'd ge up for the Mule? 1st Pick, and Horton. Don't know if that is enough. Horton is 27, Franzen is 33. 

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

So your saying he isn't anymore?Maybe he's a second pairing guy in your eyes?Just wondering.

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

So your saying he isn't anymore?Maybe he's a second pairing guy in your eyes?Just wondering.

In response to 50belowzero's comment:

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

So your saying he isn't anymore?Maybe he's a second pairing guy in your eyes?Just wondering.

Chara's point production dropped off in 09-10, 10-11, after his first 2 yrs in Boston. It so happened that the Bruins PP went south at the same time. That was my point, which I've made on this board previously. Now you could agrue that his point total went back up last year, but the PP is still doing next to nothing, so maybe my observation is irrelevent. 

Just to be clear, I am not questioning his Defensive play, as I still put him in the top 3 of Dmen out there now, ( I am biased and don't watch enough of the other teams to make an informed opinion) but I see what he does to the other teams best players, and then watch the jokers on the Leafs blueline and really understand how good he is. We are lucky to have him. 

In response to 50belowzero's comment:

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

So your saying he isn't anymore?Maybe he's a second pairing guy in your eyes?Just wondering.

Now that you got me started, I do not think Chara is a great Offensive Defenseman. Good yes, but not great, like Lidstrom. I would like to see Chara shoot a lot more, and do not understand why the B's do not set up the PP up for his shot more often. Maybe they don't want to hurt the forwards with his shot, as it could kill people. 

I also don't think Chara is a great QB on the PP like Niedermeyer(sp) or Bourque. It appears to me that the opposition has a close check on him and he always passes it away or a quick shot, instead of making a move to create a varity scoring chances. How often do you see him really unload his shot? Maybe I do not see enough games, but it seems to me I really don't see the boomer often. I'd give him a 9 out of 10, because he's so good defensively. 

If we change the focus from Chara at the blue line to Seguin (or whomever) at the half boards it draws the defenders lower into the zone. If we collapse the box down low that allows the point men to drift in and tee-up one timers. That to me sounds like what they need to do to take full advantage of Chara's shot. Even Boychuk can launch them. It doesn't always have to be Chara.

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to 50belowzero's comment:

In response to perrysound's comment:

In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

For a reason that I can forsee, I just can't count Ken Holland out just yet. Slim pickings in trade partner as allot of teams are still mathmatically in the race even though they are playing like Detroit. For good reason I just can't see Holland saying to himself "oh these next two years are bridge years", just not thinking he has that kind of makeup nor would Illitch allow it.

True enough. Holland must be working the phones for a few Dmen. But they aren't scoring either. Not only did Lidstrom give them the best D in hockey for the last decade, but he was also the starting point of the their offense. He either moved the puck out or made a great pass to get things going. That is missing and all the stop gap isn't going to change that. Wasn't he the leading D pts man 2 years ago? Wow, how do you replace that. Kind of like when Chara was a top D point man, and the Bruins had a PP.

That team could rebuild fast with a few trades and a few draft picks, that Holland seems to have the skill to do. I guess we'll see soon if he really is the best around.  

So your saying he isn't anymore?Maybe he's a second pairing guy in your eyes?Just wondering.

Chara's point production dropped off in 09-10, 10-11, after his first 2 yrs in Boston. It so happened that the Bruins PP went south at the same time. That was my point, which I've made on this board previously. Now you could agrue that his point total went back up last year, but the PP is still doing next to nothing, so maybe my observation is irrelevent. 

Just to be clear, I am not questioning his Defensive play, as I still put him in the top 3 of Dmen out there now, ( I am biased and don't watch enough of the other teams to make an informed opinion) but I see what he does to the other teams best players, and then watch the jokers on the Leafs blueline and really understand how good he is. We are lucky to have him. 

As far as Chara's points dropping off, this could be due to the fact Savard got injured around this time and the B's PP has suffered ever since. The PP in general has been a sore spot for a couple seasons now and my feeling is it has looked better but hasn't yielded much on the scoreboard. There is always hope but we know Savard won't be coming through the B's dressing room door any time soon if ever again.I was watching an old B's game this past summer and was Savard ever dangerous on the PP, whether looking to pass or shooting, unbelievable and he had a laser of a shot.