Yet Another Parise Thread

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Yet Another Parise Thread

    Apologies.  Seriously.  I know.  But....

    Heard a few sportswriters on the radio suggest that they get a very strong sense that Parise wants to go to Boston.  I had the impression they weren't talking about wearing a Sox cap during post-game interviews - more that he was looking to go to a place where he liked the long term core and the prospect of competing for a Cup year in and year out.  Some part of that conversation also suggested that respect for the current leaders in the Bruins lockerroom mattered.

    Talking heads said "if a player like that wants to play for you, you make it work!!"  Personally...well, I'm a long-time Reds fan.  I was a huge fan of Griffey Sr. and I was living in Calgary when they hosted the Mariners AAA team and Griffey Jr. was blowing up the majors as a kid.  Jr. wanted to be a Red.  The Reds made it happen.  Mike Cameron was a better player in Seattle than Jr. was for the Reds.

    Just...something to consider.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    All right Parise is signing with the B's !!! Stanley Cup in 2013 baby !!!! Yeah !!
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Parise would be a cap risk signing if one believes Horton is on LTR.  Sportswriters though like to speculate like:

    TORONTO SUN: Steve Simmons believes the NY Rangers (if they’re eliminated from this year’s playoffs)  will join the San Jose Sharks, Boston Bruins and Toronto Maple Leafs in the chase next month for Columbus Blue Jackets forward Rick Nash…One reason Simmons feels Ryan Suter shouldn’t re-sign with the Predators is they lack the kind of forwards needed to win a championship.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriotpat99. Show patriotpat99's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]It's really comes down to Parise or Jagr for me.  Semin is the other free agent that can score, but he can't even execute a single check nevermind have that element to his game.  I pick Jagr because he would sign a one year deal.  Although there may be younger players who would that i don't know about. Parise may cause cap problem down the road.  But I think about trading Krejci every year.  So if it comes down to it, I'd trade him.  Last year I said as long as we win the Stanley Cup, Krejci is a lock.  And I meant that.  I'm not sold on him.  Since we won the cup and he was the leading scorer in the playoffs, I was cool with him.  But it's year to year with me.  I'm cool with Horton.  And he is a player who I want here for his whole career.  But if he isn't healthy, there's another $4 million right there.  There are no cap problems.
    Posted by mattc355[/QUOTE]


    really, there is no comparison between jagr and parise, in terms of the construction of the team long term, they are polar opposites. If Parise REALLY wants to be here, then make it happen, but it depends how much he wants to be here, and there is a way to compute how badly he wants to be here, and it is dollars and cents. His cap hit this year is $6MM, and i don't think the bruins would be willing to commit more than that on a long term basis. If you think about it for 5 years from now (as I'm sure Chiarelli is) it would be tough to pay Parise, Chara, Bergeron, Lucic, Seguin, Hamilton (if he pans out) and Rask. If Parise would be willing to accept a 10 year deal (making him almost 38 at the expiration of his contract) with a cap hit of say, 5.5 (with a front loaded contract he could get 9,8,8,6,6,6,5,5,1,1) or a short term deal, maybe 3 years at 6.5-7 a year, i say do it. if he wants the mega deal, move along
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Big, fat long term contracts?

    See:  Scott Gomez

    No thanks.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from patriotpat99. Show patriotpat99's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Tom Pyatt Mike Busto (really his name) and Scott Gomez for Chris Higgins, Ryan Mcdonagh, Doug Janik (great kid) and Pavel Valentenko....wow
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxFanInIL. Show SoxFanInIL's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Parise?  Yes, please.

    Nash... me like, but about that contract...

    As much as I like the scorer's touch, I also like the buzz he (Parise) would bring to the lockerroom. New leader, new voice?  (who isnt a grizzley old vet on his last legs)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Pre-salary cap era you don't even blink when a player like Parise wants to play for your team. You sign him. 

    Now back to reality with a salary cap in place. A GM can't go throwing money and yearly terms at a player like it was candy ( but some do ). Also would a top forward have to be moved to fit Parise in under the cap ?

    A lot of ifs, ands or buts to make this one a reality.

     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    I look at our team future contracts:

    Lucic 2013 2014 RFA rather have Lucic  sign long term then Parise

    Marchand 2013 2014 RFA rather have Marchand sign long term then Parise cause such a weasel right Dez his speed is a bonus every team has a pest that can score goals

    Seguin 2013 2014 Seguin RFA  rather see him long term deal deal then Parise

    Lucic Seguin Marchand will be the future 1st line for the Bruins

    Most importantly Rask is unsign i like to see Tuuka  sign long term also before Parise.

    Bergeron will be a UFA 2014 2015  another Bruin the mngt. can't let slip through their hands.

    Lucic Marchand Seguin Bergeron Rask and Chara already has long term deal this will be the Bruins core.

    I rather wait and see what the other youngsters have down the road ie Hamilton Knight Spooner Caron ... etc.

    Semin or Jagr signed to a one year deal would not harm the Bruins, I am also not wanting to forget about Horton and how he responds from injury.

    Parise is good player but to risky to sign long term deal unless PC can sign a miracle contract then yes go for it. I would not complain if he put a Bruins jersey. Lucic Marchand Seguin Rask Chara Bergeron and Parise all locked in Bruins pretty scary line up.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    If he's willing to take a discount to play on the Bruins then do it, but if he wants a Nash-like contract then no way.  It all comes down to keeping the core together.  We have a great young core, but because they are so young, and still improving, pretty much everybody but Chara will need more money in their next contracts.

    Personally, if we can get him, I'd say we let Horton or Krecji and Timmy walk -- trade them for draft picks to restock the cupboard.  It's all about balancing the short and long term.  I think the addition of Parise gives us a better chance to win now then having the same team back next year.  We have too many good centers as it is, so I don't think it is the end of the world to loose Krecji (not to say I don't like him as a player).  Letting Timmy go will free up some cap space and bring a return as well.

    I know there is endless debate about whether we can/can not let certain players go, but the fact is there is no crystal ball.  If we gain Parise, at the cost of Krecji and Timmy I think it is a net positive for the B's.  We deal from our positions of strength (pass first centers, and goaltending) and we gain where we are lacking (big game scoring wingers with some grit).

    Seguin-Lucic-Parise
    Bergeron-Horton-Marchand
    Peverly-Knight/Spooner-Caron
    Campbell-Thornton-Poiliot

    I haven't ran the numbers, but that lineup looks pretty dangerous, and I think could be sustainable under the cap as long as Parise isn't asking for the world
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 86redsox. Show 86redsox's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    dont think parise in discount mode. he's the most coveted forward.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from inflamedcolon. Show inflamedcolon's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    If he really wants to be hear PC says: "our best offer is XXX, take or leave it."  If he doesn't take a somewhat team friendly deal then you move on.  Quite simple actually.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Interesting. Unless he wants a big discount, I say no thanks. Just because Parise (allegedly) wants to play here, doesn't mean he's a good decision. If he was looking for Bergeron-Krejci type money on a reasonable term, I'd say sure, make it work. I would expect him to exceed $6 mil and want a longer term. That handicaps you. His knee might go out again or wear on him. That's the big threat of those long-term free agent signings, especially with injury history. Not that his knee will prevent him from playing (in that case you could replace him), but that it will in time prevent him from playing at a star level. See Lecavalier and his shoulder. Guys can play into their 40's well if they're lucky, but some significant scars along the road can cause decreased ability for unlucky players in their 30's. The Bruins have a great core - maybe the best in the league- , no wonder Parise would like to be a part of it. But that's exactly the reason you stick with it and don't bring him in. Sign a cheaper, complimentary player for the short term.


    In Response to Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]Apologies.  Seriously.  I know.  But.... Heard a few sportswriters on the radio suggest that they get a very strong sense that Parise wants to go to Boston.  I had the impression they weren't talking about wearing a Sox cap during post-game interviews - more that he was looking to go to a place where he liked the long term core and the prospect of competing for a Cup year in and year out.  Some part of that conversation also suggested that respect for the current leaders in the Bruins lockerroom mattered. Talking heads said "if a player like that wants to play for you, you make it work!!"  Personally...well, I'm a long-time Reds fan.  I was a huge fan of Griffey Sr. and I was living in Calgary when they hosted the Mariners AAA team and Griffey Jr. was blowing up the majors as a kid.  Jr. wanted to be a Red.  The Reds made it happen.  Mike Cameron was a better player in Seattle than Jr. was for the Reds. Just...something to consider.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Parise is going to break the bank and there will be no discounts. Zack will go where the money is cup contender or not. Watch out for Ottawa on this one if ownership lets Murray. Ottawa has the money with only Karlsson to take care of next summer.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]Parise is going to break the bank and there will be no discounts. Zack will go where the money is cup contender or not. Watch out for Ottawa on this one if ownership lets Murray. Ottawa has the money with only Karlsson to take care of next summer.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Yup, players and agents can say what they want but at the end of the day they will follow the money. I like your Ottawa scenario, I'd add Toronto to that mix as well.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BobbyOrrAlumni. Show BobbyOrrAlumni's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]Parise is going to break the bank and there will be no discounts. Zack will go where the money is cup contender or not. Watch out for Ottawa on this one if ownership lets Murray. Ottawa has the money with only Karlsson to take care of next summer.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    100 % correct Dog !  Those  days of trying to win with 1 or 2 super stars are over (Bourque and Thornton)  .  I'd rather see a very good top 6 with above average 3rd and fourth liners !

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    If it's about competing for the Cup, would he do what Selanne and Kariya did and sign at a discount to get a shot at it?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from RickyHussle. Show RickyHussle's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]Interesting. Unless he wants a big discount, I say no thanks. Just because Parise (allegedly) wants to play here, doesn't mean he's a good decision. If he was looking for Bergeron-Krejci type money on a reasonable term, I'd say sure, make it work. I would expect him to exceed $6 mil and want a longer term. That handicaps you. His knee might go out again or wear on him. That's the big threat of those long-term free agent signings, especially with injury history. Not that his knee will prevent him from playing (in that case you could replace him), but that it will in time prevent him from playing at a star level. See Lecavalier and his shoulder. Guys can play into their 40's well if they're lucky, but some significant scars along the road can cause decreased ability for unlucky players in their 30's. The Bruins have a great core - maybe the best in the league- , no wonder Parise would like to be a part of it. But that's exactly the reason you stick with it and don't bring him in. Sign a cheaper, complimentary player for the short term. In Response to Yet Another Parise Thread :
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]


    I usually think your spot on Oates, but on this one I would like to make an ammendment.  Injury concerns on long-term contracts should no longer intimidate fans.  It is bad for the people paying the contracts but, once a player is severely injured his money stops affecting the cap.

    Even from the teams' perspective injury concerns are usually mitigated  through insurance policies.  If you can acquire insurance on Parise, the only contract concern should be is he valuable enough to justify this cap space, assuming he is healthy, and what is the calculated risk of this guy not being there in any given season for the playoffs.  If he is slightly more chance that he will be injured come the end of the season it should be considered.  If you believe there is only a 50% chance he will be able to play in the playoffs, then yes you should probably avoid making a huge investment.

    It doesn't mean you can sign 20 guys with long injury histories without concern, it simply means the cap implications of signing one should not be overblown.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread : . I like your Ottawa scenario, I'd add Toronto to that mix as well. Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

                         http://www.capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=4

    Burke has no one coming off the books this summer Kelv. Who is going to take Komisarek and/or Schenn to free up cap space ? Then the Laffs still have no goaltending
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    Maybe I wasn't clear in my initial post, I wasn't talking about an injury that stops you from playing, but an injury or repeat injuries that stop you from playing well. I gave Lecavalier as a prime example. Before his shoulder surgery he was a 50 goal man. After, he is a 20-30 goal man. He can still play. He will probably play out his crazy contract till 2020 collecting every penny of his $7.7 cap hit. He is no longer worth 7.7 as he is no longer a 50 goal man. There is nothing Tampa can do because he has a no-move.  They are 100% stuck. I play men's hockey these days. Some guys can play brilliant well into their 40's. Some are washed up at 30. Something I've noticed is that where someone has had injuries/surgery they often develop pain, arthritis and so on at the injury point. Parise has not yet returned to pre-injury levels. He's still good, but not quite as good. He might get back to it. But I have a suspicion that as he gets into his 30's (28 next season) he may develop scar tissue, stiffness and so on in his twice-operated on knee. This will slow him slightly. Still a solid NHL player. But not worth say... 7mil... and his contract would likely be 10+ years and with a full NMC. A few years from now a 32 year old Parise with an achy knee scoring 20 goals a season might seem like a curse. He may have 6 or 7 years to go on his contract too, with skills further declining, but not bad enough to retire. Waive him and burry him in the minors? Nope... NMC.

    He's also not that good in the first place... 69 points in the regular season and 8 in 13 games in the playoffs. Those aren't Crosby numbers. They are no better than Jaromir Jagr's. If I am going to dump a huge contract on someone they should be young and/or healthy and truly dominant. Chara is a good one. Guys like Stamkos and Crosby are well above their peers. I think Seguin may be going to join that group. I'd save the big money for him and spread out the rest of the cash.

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread : I usually think your spot on Oates, but on this one I would like to make an ammendment.  Injury concerns on long-term contracts should no longer intimidate fans.  It is bad for the people paying the contracts but, once a player is severely injured his money stops affecting the cap. Even from the teams' perspective injury concerns are usually mitigated  through insurance policies.  If you can acquire insurance on Parise, the only contract concern should be is he valuable enough to justify this cap space, assuming he is healthy, and what is the calculated risk of this guy not being there in any given season for the playoffs.  If he is slightly more chance that he will be injured come the end of the season it should be considered.  If you believe there is only a 50% chance he will be able to play in the playoffs, then yes you should probably avoid making a huge investment. It doesn't mean you can sign 20 guys with long injury histories without concern, it simply means the cap implications of signing one should not be overblown.
    Posted by RickyHussle[/QUOTE]
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    OC - that was my point in bringing up Griffey Jr. - if you don't need a guy, it doesn't matter how much he wants to come or how big a name he is, and if you make the move for name recognition, injuries can turn that a complete 180.  Griffey was resented by Reds fans because he was never the player in Cincy that he was in Seattle.  Not even close.

    There's also the issue of what you're getting for the numbers people seem expect him to command.  Outside of two big years, and his rookie year, his totals have been in roughly the same ball park as Lucic and Marchand:

    ZP - 62, 65, 69
    ML - last two years: 62, 61
    BM - 41, 55 in his first two years.  Parise had 94 points in his first two years.

    You'd have to believe Parise would score 80 pts + in Boston to pay him significantly more than $5M.  I expect that's the range for Lucic's next deal.  It sounds like the bidding will be Wizniewski stupid, so....

    But if he wants to be in Boston badly enough to take Krejci money - make him the highest paid forward for now - then you have to look at the roster carefully.  Three 28+ goal LWs, with only Horton, maybe Peverley, and Caron on the right.  I don't know if there's enough ice to keep all three of those LWs engaged, so you might switch Marchand to RW.  If you do that, you've now got the four wingers for the top two lines - so where does Seguin go?  I would assume this:

    Parise-Seguin-Horton (~$13M)
    Lucic-Bergeron-Marchand  (~11.5M)
    Peverley-Krejci-Caron (~10M)
    xx - xx - Thornton (~3.5M)

    $38M for forwards assuming bargain basement solutions on the 4th line.  Figure ~$21 for defense and you're already at $59M without a goalie.  That's also pegging Lucic, Seguin and Horton at their current levels (with bonuses for Seguin).  To me, that means you're paying too much for your third line C.  So signing Parise probably means saying farewell to Krejci.

    Which brings me to Chappy's line: "We deal from our positions of strength (pass first centers, and goaltending) and we gain where we are lacking (big game scoring wingers with some grit)."  Instant aversion to dealing C and G for W, esp.  when the qualitative difference isn't enormous. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    I totally agree with you. People keep calling Parise an elite talent and big-game player... the numbers don't back it up. He is less productive than Krejci. No matter how he looks to people's eyes, all that matters is how many goals go in when the game is up.

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]OC - that was my point in bringing up Griffey Jr. - if you don't need a guy, it doesn't matter how much he wants to come or how big a name he is, and if you make the move for name recognition, injuries can turn that a complete 180.  Griffey was resented by Reds fans because he was never the player in Cincy that he was in Seattle.  Not even close. There's also the issue of what you're getting for the numbers people seem expect him to command.  Outside of two big years, and his rookie year, his totals have been in roughly the same ball park as Lucic and Marchand: ZP - 62, 65, 69 ML - last two years: 62, 61 BM - 41, 55 in his first two years.  Parise had 94 points in his first two years. You'd have to believe Parise would score 80 pts + in Boston to pay him significantly more than $5M.  I expect that's the range for Lucic's next deal.  It sounds like the bidding will be Wizniewski stupid, so.... But if he wants to be in Boston badly enough to take Krejci money - make him the highest paid forward for now - then you have to look at the roster carefully.  Three 28+ goal LWs, with only Horton, maybe Peverley, and Caron on the right.  I don't know if there's enough ice to keep all three of those LWs engaged, so you might switch Marchand to RW.  If you do that, you've now got the four wingers for the top two lines - so where does Seguin go?  I would assume this: Parise-Seguin-Horton (~$13M) Lucic-Bergeron-Marchand  (~11.5M) Peverley-Krejci-Caron (~10M) xx - xx - Thornton (~3.5M) $38M for forwards assuming bargain basement solutions on the 4th line.  Figure ~$21 for defense and you're already at $59M without a goalie.  That's also pegging Lucic, Seguin and Horton at their current levels (with bonuses for Seguin).  To me, that means you're paying too much for your third line C.  So signing Parise probably means saying farewell to Krejci. Which brings me to Chappy's line: "We deal from our positions of strength (pass first centers, and goaltending) and we gain where we are lacking (big game scoring wingers with some grit)."  Instant aversion to dealing C and G for W, esp.  when the qualitative difference isn't enormous. 
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread : Yup, players and agents can say what they want but at the end of the day they will follow the money. I like your Ottawa scenario, I'd add Toronto to that mix as well.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    Toronto ?  They're shopping more for a 1st line center and a goalie. No space for Parise also.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fourrings. Show fourrings's posts

    Re: Yet Another Parise Thread

    In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Yet Another Parise Thread : really, there is no comparison between jagr and parise, in terms of the construction of the team long term, they are polar opposites. If Parise REALLY wants to be here, then make it happen, but it depends how much he wants to be here, and there is a way to compute how badly he wants to be here, and it is dollars and cents. His cap hit this year is $6MM, and i don't think the bruins would be willing to commit more than that on a long term basis. If you think about it for 5 years from now (as I'm sure Chiarelli is) it would be tough to pay Parise, Chara, Bergeron, Lucic, Seguin, Hamilton (if he pans out) and Rask. If Parise would be willing to accept a 10 year deal (making him almost 38 at the expiration of his contract) with a cap hit of say, 5.5 (with a front loaded contract he could get 9,8,8,6,6,6,5,5,1,1) or a short term deal, maybe 3 years at 6.5-7 a year, i say do it. if he wants the mega deal, move along
    Posted by patriotpat99[/QUOTE]

    not sure Chara will be here another 5 years, he will be over 40 by then
     
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