If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from wicksandrowe. Show wicksandrowe's posts

    If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    Listen to a lot of people here and you get the impression that simply drafting high will be the solution to all Celtic problems, i.e., a) that a top five pick is an automatic cure-all, b) that getting # 2-3 over the # 6-7-8 is deeply critical, and c) that it will be a quick trip back to contending.

    The Tim Duncan/Spurs example is oft cited as evidence, but I’m skeptical. The Spurs thing was a one-off total aberration. First, Duncan was added to another #1 pick, Robinson, and a #3 pick Elliott. That doesn’t happen everyday. Then the Spurs clairvoyantly added #28 Parker and #57 Ginobili. * Big flashback sigh alert! - In that 1999 draft, the Celtics had their only pick at # 55.... and chose the inimitable Kris Clack, a shooting guard whose shot sounded, unfortunately, just like his name. Never played an NBA minute. I was living in Europe and knew Ginobili's game. Sigh!

    During the past four or five NBA drafts the Cavs, Kings, Wizards, and T-Wolves have lived at the top of the NBA draft with little to no result. Grabbing these numbers off of a Bill Simmons piece I wanted to see exactly how high those picks were and exactly what they got for them.

     

    YR.         #     T-WOLVES          #   WIZARDS     #     KINGS        #       CAVS

    2009    5/6   RUBIO, FLYNN

    2010     4     W. JOHNSON        1     WALL             5      COUSINS       1/4    IRVING,

    2011     2     D. WILLIAMS        6     VESELY           7      BIYAMBO                THOMPSON

    2012                                               3     BEAL              5     ROBINSON       4      WAITERS

    2013                                               3     PORTER           7     MCLEMORE      1       BENNETT 

    AVG.       4   X 4 picks               3    X 4 picks         6      X 4 picks      2.5      X 4 picks

     

    This is just another reminder that draft position itself has way less to do with success than the wisdom, vision, and capability of the person making the pick. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from romneywins. Show romneywins's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    The draft may help, but the draft choices combined with players in a trade is our best chance back.  We must develop some players but we need a blue chip by trade or we can forget this decade.  1.  Rondo is a near all star  2. Green is a compimentary player  3. Bradley can defend but because of his size he can only flourish as a point, which he is not. (will not be worth the money he is seeking) 4. Hump is a  good roll player (keep if cheap) 5.  Bass is good for his size but small  6. Presey needs to play D League 7. Sullinger could be a near all star a power forward and needs to loose 25 lbs  8.  Kelly is 24 months away from being a near allstar  9. Johnson does not have the big name and will most likely be gone like Randolph 10.  Bayless is a spot player but has upside  11.  Babb does not have the big name and most likely is gone  12. We do not have a center 13.  We do not have a blue chip player

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from painter. Show painter's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    "Good roll player".  Does butter come with that roll?

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from chris33. Show chris33's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

     

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Remember, the Pelicans had the 4th worst record in 2012 and they ended up picking #1 - Anthony Davis!

    [/QUOTE]


    And we got Pierce at #10.

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    In response to Fiercy's comment:

    In response to chris33's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    And we got Pierce at #10.

     



    The difference is Anthony Davis will become a 1st tier superstar.

     

     

    Paul Pierce never became a 1st tier superstar.

    [/QUOTE]

    Is Melo a 1st tier superstar? 

    What about Dominique?

    Clyde Drexler?

    Havlicek?

    When it comes to Small Forwards there is Bird, Dr. J and LeBron (who just entered that tier). Durant could get there. That is the top 3 all-time.

    Then there is the second tier of Pippen, Wilkins, Drexler, Elgin Baylor, Havlicek, Gervin, Pierce and Rick Barry. Melo will be in here someday.

    So you are saying that one day Anthony Davis will be in the Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, and Karl Malone tier and above the Charles Barkley, Bob Pettit, Elvin Hayes, Dirk, McHale, Jerry Lucas and prob 1-2 guys I am forgetting PF tier?

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PHX85014. Show PHX85014's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    And we got Pierce at #10.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The difference is Anthony Davis will become a 1st tier superstar.

     

     

    Paul Pierce never became a 1st tier superstar.

    [/QUOTE]

    TOTAL GARBAGE, OF COURSE PAUL PIERCE WAS A FIRST TIER SUPERSTAR !

    HE PLAYED HIS PRIME IN OBSCURITY BECAUSE THE CELTICS WERE AT AN ALL TIME LOW AFTER PITINO AND GAVITT........

    ONCE PIERCE HAD KG AND RAY ALLEN, HE WAS CAPTAIN OF A CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER

    GIVE PIERCE HIS DUE.....HOW SOON PEOPLE FORGET !

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticelmo. Show celticelmo's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    In response to PHX85014's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chris33's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    And we got Pierce at #10.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The difference is Anthony Davis will become a 1st tier superstar.

     

     

    Paul Pierce never became a 1st tier superstar.

    [/QUOTE]

    TOTAL GARBAGE, OF COURSE PAUL PIERCE WAS A FIRST TIER SUPERSTAR !

    HE PLAYED HIS PRIME IN OBSCURITY BECAUSE THE CELTICS WERE AT AN ALL TIME LOW AFTER PITINO AND GAVITT........

    ONCE PIERCE HAD KG AND RAY ALLEN, HE WAS CAPTAIN OF A CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER

    GIVE PIERCE HIS DUE.....HOW SOON PEOPLE FORGET !

    [/QUOTE]

    Yo Phoenix. Totally off the subject here but were you in Phoenix when the UFO was hovering above and did you see it? Not be a jerk here, I am just interested in that situation and this is the first chance I have had to chat with someone from Phoenix

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    If Ainge had blown up the Celtics after the 2010 finals and had the #4 pick in each of the past 4 drafts he probably would have drafted:

    '10 - DeMarcus Cousins

    '11 - Klay Thompson (very high on him I remember)

    '12 - Harrison Barnes (and Sully)

    '13 - probably Noel, could afford to wait a year with a Rondo-Thompson-Barnes-Sully-Cousins starting 5.

     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    In response to Fiercy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to PHX85014's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    TOTAL GARBAGE, OF COURSE PAUL PIERCE WAS A FIRST TIER SUPERSTAR !

    HE PLAYED HIS PRIME IN OBSCURITY BECAUSE THE CELTICS WERE AT AN ALL TIME LOW AFTER PITINO AND GAVITT........

    ONCE PIERCE HAD KG AND RAY ALLEN, HE WAS CAPTAIN OF A CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDER

    GIVE PIERCE HIS DUE.....HOW SOON PEOPLE FORGET !

     

    [/QUOTE]

    What's total garbage is you not doing due diligence.

     

    Every 1st tier NBA superstar made the All-NBA 1st Team more than once.

     

    Pierce only made All-NBA 2nd Team once!

     

    Kobe, Lebron, and Durant those are 1st tier NBA superstars.

    Pierce and Ray Allen are 2nd tier NBA superstars.

     

    For the record, you're not considered a 1st tier NBA superstar if you don't make All-NBA 1st Team more than once.

    [/QUOTE]

    Really? So you make the rules?

    Pierce is a top 50 player all time if they did a new list now and just because Dirk and LeBron blocked his path to All-NBA teams (Drexler and Wilkins comparably each only made one first team all-NBA) doesn't mean he wasn't a 1st tier NBA superstar during his prime when he played.

    He could go head to head with the best in the game as we saw countless times against Kobe and Dirk and Iverson and the '08 game 7 against LeBron.

    Is he a top tier SF of all-time? No. That is Bird, Dr. J and LeBron. He is in the second tier all-time but first tier in his era from '02-'10.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    You guys have different criteria for what a first tier superstar is.To me Pierce was a guy who wasn't a superstar season by season. What makes him amazing is his consistency and longevity.

    We are talking about a guy who has similar stats over his career to Mitch Richmond. Pierce has played longer so he has more gaudy career stats. Was Richmond a first tier superstar?

    You guys are arguing semantics. you need to establish what you think a first tier superstar is.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomobo. Show tomobo's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    In response to 37stories' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    You guys have different criteria for what a first tier superstar is.To me Pierce was a guy who wasn't a superstar season by season. What makes him amazing is his consistency and longevity.

    We are talking about a guy who has similar stats over his career to Mitch Richmond. Pierce has played longer so he has more gaudy career stats. Was Richmond a first tier superstar?

    You guys are arguing semantics. you need to establish what you think a first tier superstar is.

    [/QUOTE]


    I think one has to go w/ their gut here when criteria is subjective. To my mind, Pierce is every bit as valuable as a Pippen as a 2nd banana. Did Pierce ever freak out when he wasn't the 1st option on a last shot situation? Give me the Cap'n

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from CeltsFanInNH. Show CeltsFanInNH's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    Nothing against Pierce because he played some great games for the Cs but, how many players on the all time 50 list would take summers off and show up to camp most preseasons overweight ?? Not too many.

    Most worked on improving an aspect of  their game each summer. Remember also, that most of those players played longer seasons with the playoffs added in. Pierce had several seasons without playoffs to recover and get fit for the season. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from celticelmo. Show celticelmo's posts

    Re: If you had the #4 pick for 4 years in a row could you do better than this?

    I think P2 will be a HOFer. Not real sure there are many "NON-Superstars" in that catagory. However, even though I love P2 I do not think he is one of the 'BEST OF THE BEST" like Larry, Lebron....

     

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