2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

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    2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Posts: 1209
    First: 6/22/2006
    Last: 8/22/2012
    In Response to Re: Upgrade:
    It's going to be very hard to get deep into the playoffs without one 20 point per game scorer or one 10 rebound per game player. I can't think of a team that has won the championship without a 20 or a 10 guy.
    Posted by TommyRules


    My first guess was the 04 pistons and I was almost right. They didnt have a 20 pt scorer, (rip hamilton was leading scorer at 17.6ppg). But they did have a 10 reb guy in ben wallace who avg 12.4 rpg.

    U bring up a good point tho. I also believe that to win a championship, u need a top 10 player and a couple top 20-35 players. This is a stars league. Stars win. MJ,magic,bird, kobe,russell,shaq,duncan,hakeen,lebron,wade  etc. Without one or two of those type of guys on your team its near impossible to win. The year the cs won kg was still a top 10 overall player. ( he was 3rd in mvp voting and def player of the year in 2008). Right now we have a bunch of very good players  top 20-40 types (rondo,kg,pp) guys who would still be the top players on certain  teams but secondary players on the elite teams. 

    The only exception  is that pistons team. Very unique team. They are really the only team to win a championship with out a top 10 player. The good thing for the celtics is that they are very similiar to that pistons team. Both teams were great defensively, pistons were #1 in point allowed per game the celtics last year were 3rd (led by  former def playes of the year's in ben wallace and kg respectively) and both had several double digit scorers. Detroit that year had 4 double digit scorers , and 3 other who avgd over 9ppg. So 7 players who avgd 9 or more ppg.  Lets look at the celtics:

    rondo 
    pp     
    kg      
    bbass  
    terry   
    lee      
    bradley 
    jgreen  

    I think we can match that or even do better. Thats 8 players who could realistically avg over 9 ppg and 4 or 5 in double digits.  

    So we have the pistons formula, a top ranked defense and several double digit scorers. The only other thing detroit did was they were an above avg rebounding team ranked 11th that year. We were 30th. We have to get our rpg to a good level like top 12-15 if we can do that we may be able to duplicate what the pistons did that year.
    Posts: 1209
    First: 6/22/2006
    Last: 8/22/2012
    In Response to Re: Upgrade:
    It's going to be very hard to get deep into the playoffs without one 20 point per game scorer or one 10 rebound per game player. I can't think of a team that has won the championship without a 20 or a 10 guy.
    Posted by TommyRules


    My first guess was the 04 pistons and I was almost right. They didnt have a 20 pt scorer, (rip hamilton was leading scorer at 17.6ppg). But they did have a 10 reb guy in ben wallace who avg 12.4 rpg.

    U bring up a good point tho. I also believe that to win a championship, u need a top 10 player and a couple top 20-35 players. This is a stars league. Stars win. MJ,magic,bird, kobe,russell,shaq,duncan,hakeen,lebron,wade  etc. Without one or two of those type of guys on your team its near impossible to win. The year the cs won kg was still a top 10 overall player. ( he was 3rd in mvp voting and def player of the year in 2008). Right now we have a bunch of very good players  top 20-40 types (rondo,kg,pp) guys who would still be the top players on certain  teams but secondary players on the elite teams. 

    The only exception  is that pistons team. Very unique team. They are really the only team to win a championship with out a top 10 player. The good thing for the celtics is that they are very similiar to that pistons team. Both teams were great defensively, pistons were #1 in point allowed per game the celtics last year were 3rd (led by  former def playes of the year's in ben wallace and kg respectively) and both had several double digit scorers. Detroit that year had 4 double digit scorers , and 3 other who avgd over 9ppg. So 7 players who avgd 9 or more ppg.  Lets look at the celtics:

    rondo 
    pp     
    kg      
    bbass  
    terry   
    lee      
    bradley 
    jgreen  

    I think we can match that or even do better. Thats 8 players who could realistically avg over 9 ppg and 4 or 5 in double digits.  

    So we have the pistons formula, a top ranked defense and several double digit scorers. The only other thing detroit did was they were an above avg rebounding team ranked 11th that year. We were 30th. We have to get our rpg to a good level like top 12-15 if we can do that we may be able to duplicate what the pistons did that year.

     I  believe that to win a championship, u need a top 10 player and a couple top 20-35 players. This is a stars league. Stars win. MJ,magic,bird, kobe,russell,shaq,duncan,hakeen,lebron,wade  etc. Without one or two of those type of guys on your team its near impossible to win. The year the cs won kg was still a top 10 overall player. ( he was 3rd in mvp voting and def player of the year in 2008). Right now we have a bunch of very good players  top 20-40 types (rondo,kg,pp) guys who would still be the top players on certain  teams but secondary players on the elite teams. 

    The only exception  is that pistons team. Very unique team. They are really the only team to win a championship with out a top 10 player. The good thing for the celtics is that they are very similiar to that pistons team. Both teams were great defensively, pistons were #1 in point allowed per game the celtics last year were 3rd (led by  former def playes of the year's in ben wallace and kg respectively) and both had several double digit scorers. Detroit that year had 4 double digit scorers , and 3 other who avgd over 9ppg. So 7 players who avgd 9 or more ppg.  Lets look at the celtics:

    rondo 
    pp     
    kg      
    bbass  
    terry   
    lee      
    bradley 
    jgreen  

    I think we can match that or even do better. Thats 8 players who could realistically avg over 9 ppg and 4 or 5 in double digits.  

    So we have the pistons formula, a top ranked defense and several double digit scorers. The only other thing detroit did was they were an above avg rebounding team ranked 11th that year. We were 30th. We have to get our rpg to a good level like top 12-15 if we can do that we may be able to duplicate what the pistons did that year.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Varajeo is a pipe dream only if we have information that the trade is not possible.

    To compare Varajeo to Mark Madsen or Brian Cardinal shows literally no understanding of NBA players and their value. Varajeo had twenty points and twenty rebounds against the Celtics just this season.  He has always been a top player as his salary attests to.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : are u serious tommy??! what makes u think its the same??! stupidity of u comes out! Sullinger could be better than varejao because he was a scorer, rebounder!! Sullinger proves that thru college basketball 17ppg 9rpg, did u see what he does during the summer league??! Melo is "RAW", he doesnt average above 5 ppg, and no rebounds,  McGee could learn faster than Melo!
    Posted by The BIG TICKET[/QUOTE

    Wait, "McGee could learn faster than Melo".  Is Melo brain-defective (no)?  The kid has learned English faster than most native-born citizens while McGee is one of the dumbest players ever to make an NBA roster.  Just picture the end of a close game and McGee gets his hands on the ball (yikes) - instantly the other team has the advantage because he'll do something completely brainless.  He is a sad case, and I feel sorry for him because if he weren't 7' tall, he'd be hard-pressed to make any sort of living.  Do a little research before making assumptions about speed of learning.  Melo would lap McGee in a one-lap intelligence race.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinus007. Show sinus007's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Fierscest,
    Agree with you about current state of the team and possible trades for AV, McGee or whomever.

    If we talk purely hypothetical, sure, Bass for AV is a good trade. But their salaries are too far apart so, there's need for the 3rd player. I wouldn't add CL and definetely not AB. As for draft picks, I don't think DA would go for that: the team is still in a rebuilding mode.

    AK
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : Bass for Varejao works salary wise 6.2 for 8.4, c'mon now and adding Melo and a 1st rd pick in the late 20's is still a great deal for us as we have a 1-2 year windown to win a title
    Posted by rameakap


    ramekap,
    Actually, it doesn't work. Since the Celtics is a taxpayer, 6.2x1.25+100K=7.85.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong.

    AK
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from cavaliersfan. Show cavaliersfan's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    This team needs to beat multiple teams and an upgrade is an upgrade any way you look at it. Backup C and/or taller PF who can board better than Green/bass is what the team needs right now. I would rather have Varejao to throw at Bosh while KG plays 32 mins to Bosh's 40 than I would Bass/Wilcox. I would rather have him playing Haslem or Joel Anthony as well. Wouldn't it be nice to have Varejao battling Chandler so KG can play Amare or the other way around with a guy the same height as Amare instead of 2" shorter? What about Boozer, David West, Collison, Perk (so KG can play Ibaka) Splitter who is almost 7' while KG plays Duncan, Humphries, a fellow 10-10 like Varejao, McGee is an active 10 boards type, Memphis has twin bigs with size and girth, Varejao on Griffin (and lots of times Green) So KG can play Jordan, on and on... Saying a contender 'doesn't need to upgrade' the weakest link in their rotation, that helps them vs. EVERY team they play, and not just LA, is pretty foolish, esp when Boston has a 1-2 year window and is currently behind at least 2 clubs in the 'favored to win' department. Just b/c I doubt LA gets past OKC and am 100% on board with the 'build a team to beat Miami and worry about the finals after; philosophy doesn't mean this team isn't in dire need of one more big for every single game vs. the best in the league.
    Posted by rameakap


    I love Andy Varejao's play, but be careful. He has only played in approx. 70% of all the games he could have possibly played. This was due to injuries and sitting some on the bench when he was learning how to play in the NBA.  However, I believe Cavs would trade him for the right deal. 
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : yes his injury history is the only major red flag. Despite Varejao being a far superior player to Bass he is not better if he is in a suit on the sidelines, BB is almost never hurt
    Posted by rameakap


    The biggest obstacle in that proposed trade is Cleveland will not trade away their most experienced player, and starting center for an undersized power forward. I was reading that Cleveland was counting on Varejao to be the leader of this very young team. I could see them moving him after this season, but not before or during this one, not unless they got a serviceable player to man the center position in return. I just don't see them giving up a reasonably priced center who averages a double double for anything the Celtics would be willing to part with.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Hi,
    There's a couple other points that stack against BB-AV trade, IMO.
    1. Celtics are constructed to beat the Heat. If all current part are moving as DA envisioned and Doc prescribes I doubt that there'll be major changes to the roster, just tweaks, if any. The above mentioned trade is a major change - I doubt that DA and Doc would risk it, especially considering that there're only 3 or 4 opportunities for practice between the trade deadline and the beginning of the playoffs.
    2. The major difference between the two is that AV is better on D and BB is better on O. Last year Celtics were one of the best defensive teams and one of the worst at the other end. So, swapping BB for AV would not help in this department.

    But again, it's all hypothetical musings.

    AK
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Ramekap,
    can't argue with your points except:
    don't look at AV's last season stats. He played only 25 games so, that 20-20 abberation weighted really heavy.
    also, BB is much better FT shooter.

    AK
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : I never said just Bass for Varejao. And if trading one of those 2 rook's for a 30 year old 10-10 player when there is a 1-2 year windown for a title 'isn't worth it' then that is a stunning comment that i will remember all season. Pretty sure the '88 C's would have/should have moved Reggie Lewis if it was for a proven veteran glue guy that solved their biggest weakness and made them NBA champions.
    Posted by rameakap


    Aren't your Celtics in year 5 of the "two year window"?
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    I like what varjao would bring to this team, but I think hes being a little overrated. He's a scrappy player and hustling player. But hes not gonna put us over the top. We need a long 4 who can defend, rebound AND SCORE. Thats why I suggested jsmith or horford. Both are good defenders, rebounders and scorers, Jsmith is in the last year of his contract, so if hawks dont think they can resign him he could be had. We have the assetts to get a deal done too. Something like lee/bass and 1st rd pick.

    rondo/ terry
    bradley/terry
    pp/jgreen
    jsmith/sully
    kg/wilcox/melo/collins

    Thats a bigger more athletic team. We have rebounding and defense at every position ( bradley avg to below avg rebounder). Our bench has a lot of depth, good rebouding with sully/wilcox good scoring with terry and jgreen.
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : That restriction ends on January 15th, as you were already told, and I said this would be a Jan/Feb trade, so please follow along. Do you still wish to discuss the trade idea or will you wait until Feb? When Bass can 100% be in a trade for Andy if you add Melo or even just a guy making 650k to the deal.
    Posted by rameakap


    So after Jan 15th bbass can be traded for his actual salary $6 mill right? So if we traded bbass $6mil per and lee's $5 million = $11 mil for jsmith, right? So salaries match and either throw in melo or a 1st rd pick.

    Now I understand that the hawks would want  a lottery pick, but would a team whos that bad really want to trade for a josh smith and his salary?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DoctorCO. Show DoctorCO's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    GO GREEN ISNT A CELTICS FAN..

    HES AN INTERNET TROLL..

    WHO IS FRADULENTLY BEING A CELTICS FAN....BEING NEGATIVE ON FOREUMS SHOWS THAT HE IS A XBOX TRASH TALKER
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Varajeo or someone like him is a must.  Anyone who thinks the Celtics as currently constructed with KG as the only real big man is delusional. KG will not even get through the season unless there is a banger who can be in there with him and when he is resting.

    KG will not be healthy all year if we do not get a player like Varajeo. Fact.  What happens when he goes down? The season is over.

    If Melo is that player great, but most likely he will play a few minutes a game.

    This idea that Green, Bass and Wilcox will be enough upfront is so illogical I can't even understand the arguments. If you are OK with the Celtics having this void upfront then you are prepared for the consequences of what this will do to your key big man and oldest player KG.  Danny will do something whether you agree or not.  Fact.  Philly(Even the Nets)who no one mentions will be a handful along with the Heat. Don't forget them. Fierce it is not only the Heat we have to worry about in the East.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    The 2012-2013 Celtics were constructed to Beat the Heat! DA and Doc have made great decisions putting this roster together! Remember, the Heat won the championship last year without a dominant center (some would argue without a center at all)! OKC did not have a dominant center either! Again, the C's were constructed to Beat the Heat! Doc will play the cards that were dealt to him perfectly!
     
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