2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]rame I don't want to talk about trades right now because the Celts just completed their roster. I'll talk trades with you in February.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Ummm ok

    I propose a trade

    You instantly try to pick it apart and complain about it with FIVE posts. Three state that we don't need Varejao b/c the Heat play Battier/Bron at the 4 (redic logic) and b/c he's not an 'offensive player' (again, foolish). Then 2 posts say that the trade idea is not realistic, when you didn't pay attention to the trade idea that was very realistic, it wasn't a 1:1 swap.

    Then your 6th post FINALLY says it is too early for you to talk trades and you start to blather about a 'full roster' and 'let's see them play'. Fine, you feel that way, I don't, don't respond to the thread/trade talk. Go back to tearing apart the Lakers roster before getting a chance to see them play a single game.

    Uh-oh....Ooops, SEVEN more Fierce comments after he says he won't talk trades all on the idea of the trade, saying you wouldn't give up sully or Melo for Varejao (before even seeing them play), let's not disrupt chemistry and then talks about how the $ matches up.

    So clearly you DO want to talk about my hypothetical trade, only every nit-picking, 'let's find a problem for the sake of trying to look smart/be confrontational' response you came up with was torn down by me.

    Now if you really don't want to talk trades until February (FEBRUARY?? REALLY?? no WAY that happens) simply don't reply anymore.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Ramekap,
    can't argue with your points except:
    don't look at AV's last season stats. He played only 25 games so, that 20-20 abberation weighted really heavy.
    also, BB is much better FT shooter.

    AK
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : I never said just Bass for Varejao. And if trading one of those 2 rook's for a 30 year old 10-10 player when there is a 1-2 year windown for a title 'isn't worth it' then that is a stunning comment that i will remember all season. Pretty sure the '88 C's would have/should have moved Reggie Lewis if it was for a proven veteran glue guy that solved their biggest weakness and made them NBA champions.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    Aren't your Celtics in year 5 of the "two year window"?
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    I like what varjao would bring to this team, but I think hes being a little overrated. He's a scrappy player and hustling player. But hes not gonna put us over the top. We need a long 4 who can defend, rebound AND SCORE. Thats why I suggested jsmith or horford. Both are good defenders, rebounders and scorers, Jsmith is in the last year of his contract, so if hawks dont think they can resign him he could be had. We have the assetts to get a deal done too. Something like lee/bass and 1st rd pick.

    rondo/ terry
    bradley/terry
    pp/jgreen
    jsmith/sully
    kg/wilcox/melo/collins

    Thats a bigger more athletic team. We have rebounding and defense at every position ( bradley avg to below avg rebounder). Our bench has a lot of depth, good rebouding with sully/wilcox good scoring with terry and jgreen.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]I like what varjao would bring to this team, but I think hes being a little overrated. He's a scrappy player and hustling player. But hes not gonna put us over the top. We need a long 4 who can defend, rebound AND SCORE. Thats why I suggested jsmith or horford. Both are good defenders, rebounders and scorers, Jsmith is in the last year of his contract, so if hawks dont think they can resign him he could be had. We have the assetts to get a deal done too. Something like lee/bass and 1st rd pick. rondo/ terry bradley/terry pp/jgreen jsmith/sully kg/wilcox/melo/collins Thats a bigger more athletic team. We have rebounding and defense at every position ( bradley avg to below avg rebounder). Our bench has a lot of depth, good rebouding with sully/wilcox good scoring with terry and jgreen.
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]

    Yes I'd much rather have either of those guys... I think Varejao is the WAY more obtainable one... Ferry will want a top 10 pick for either based on how he is rebuilding that franchise

    At the very least Avery and 2 out of Sully, Melo and a future pick would have to go, along with the practically impossible to match 10-11 million in contracts. 
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : Bass' outgoing trade value is only 3.1m because he's a BYC player.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    That restriction ends on January 15th, as you were already told, and I said this would be a Jan/Feb trade, so please follow along.

    Do you still wish to discuss the trade idea or will you wait until Feb? When Bass can 100% be in a trade for Andy if you add Melo or even just a guy making 650k to the deal.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : That restriction ends on January 15th, as you were already told, and I said this would be a Jan/Feb trade, so please follow along. Do you still wish to discuss the trade idea or will you wait until Feb? When Bass can 100% be in a trade for Andy if you add Melo or even just a guy making 650k to the deal.
    Posted by rameakap[/QUOTE]

    So after Jan 15th bbass can be traded for his actual salary $6 mill right? So if we traded bbass $6mil per and lee's $5 million = $11 mil for jsmith, right? So salaries match and either throw in melo or a 1st rd pick.

    Now I understand that the hawks would want  a lottery pick, but would a team whos that bad really want to trade for a josh smith and his salary?
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : So after Jan 15th bbass can be traded for his actual salary $6 mill right? So if we traded bbass $6mil per and lee's $5 million = $11 mil for jsmith, right? So salaries match and either throw in melo or a 1st rd pick. Now I understand that the hawks would want  a lottery pick, but would a team whos that bad really want to trade for a josh smith and his salary?
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]

    Yes those salaries match for a trade even if the trade value is likely not enough to get Smith, unless a 3rd team that gives picks/young talent for Lee and/or bass becomes involved. You are right that his value is lowered by being a pending FA and no lotto team would really want him.

    Bass can be traded for his full 6 mil after Jan 15th and since the entire Varejao trade premise was a Jan/Feb one, I have no idea why Fierce felt the need to bring that up. Especially when he doesn't want to involve himself in trade talks before the season, haha.

    I guess the BYC talks were a brief bandaid for the multiple wounds he suffered trying to say we couldn't use Varejao b/c of:
     
    A. make believe chemistry issues (despite his being a perfect hustle/rebound glue guy who will be loved more than PJ Brown a late season acquisition was) 

    B. his lack of offense (1-2 points less than Bass over a career, yet getting 3-5 more boards, 2-3 on off and better D???)

    C. the fact that Green will play vs. Miami the last 5 mins (let's just forget about the other 43 mins and other 28 teams huh Fierce?)

    It was a pretty poor attempt to just try and disagree with others for the sake of being a confrontational individual who strives to start fights and act smarter than everyone else at all times, but facts and reality proved him wrong and it all blew up nicely in his face, hehe
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    GO GREEN ISNT A CELTICS FAN..

    HES AN INTERNET TROLL..

    WHO IS FRADULENTLY BEING A CELTICS FAN....BEING NEGATIVE ON FOREUMS SHOWS THAT HE IS A XBOX TRASH TALKER
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Varajeo or someone like him is a must.  Anyone who thinks the Celtics as currently constructed with KG as the only real big man is delusional. KG will not even get through the season unless there is a banger who can be in there with him and when he is resting.

    KG will not be healthy all year if we do not get a player like Varajeo. Fact.  What happens when he goes down? The season is over.

    If Melo is that player great, but most likely he will play a few minutes a game.

    This idea that Green, Bass and Wilcox will be enough upfront is so illogical I can't even understand the arguments. If you are OK with the Celtics having this void upfront then you are prepared for the consequences of what this will do to your key big man and oldest player KG.  Danny will do something whether you agree or not.  Fact.  Philly(Even the Nets)who no one mentions will be a handful along with the Heat. Don't forget them. Fierce it is not only the Heat we have to worry about in the East.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    The 2012-2013 Celtics were constructed to Beat the Heat! DA and Doc have made great decisions putting this roster together! Remember, the Heat won the championship last year without a dominant center (some would argue without a center at all)! OKC did not have a dominant center either! Again, the C's were constructed to Beat the Heat! Doc will play the cards that were dealt to him perfectly!
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]Varajeo or someone like him is a must.  Anyone who thinks the Celtics as currently constructed with KG as the only real big man is delusional. KG will not even get through the season unless there is a banger who can be in there with him and when he is resting. KG will not be healthy all year if we do not get a player like Varajeo. Fact.  What happens when he goes down? The season is over. If Melo is that player great, but most likely he will play a few minutes a game. This idea that Green, Bass and Wilcox will be enough upfront is so illogical I can't even understand the arguments. If you are OK with the Celtics having this void upfront then you are prepared for the consequences of what this will do to your key big man and oldest player KG.  Danny will do something whether you agree or not.  Fact.  Philly(Even the Nets)who no one mentions will be a handful along with the Heat. Don't forget them. Fierce it is not only the Heat we have to worry about in the East.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    Agreed, the team will need some help up front badly

    Fierce wants to say dumb things like 'test run the car' first.... I don't need to test drive a FWD sedan to know it is not the 4x4 I need for the rough road ahead.

    Nothing that happens in Nov/Dec are going to make Bass and Green 6'10" guys who get 9+ boards a game and can play center.

    The only point Fierce has here is that b/c of the CBA there are restrictions that don't allow us to trade most players until Dec 15th and Bass until Jan 15th. But since I have NEVER said make this trade now, and anyone who enters this discussion should know it is a Jan/Feb idea... Fierce really has no point in the end other than to continue to harass fans who want to give their opinions on the current roster before we see it on the court together.

    Then he goes and gives his opinions left and right on how LA is going to look this year before they have even played a game together. What a joke.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    I actually like the Piston 2004 analogy, our sum is greater than our parts. I don't think we need to make any significant changes to our roster. Bass doesn't get the credit for his amazing consistency, you could most write in his box score every night before the game started,coaches love that. Terry will allow us to run a more fluid and spread out offense decreasing our need for big slow Center and utilizing our quickness in our rebounding.The more I look at our roster and the direction our team is heading I am actually really glad we didn't resign ra. We have a team that can either change a set on the fly or have more players that can can create their own shot. As horribly and despicably as our season ended last season I am equally excited about the up coming season. Despite all the national media hoopla I feel that us and the Nuggets did more to actually better their franchises for now and later.
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    Fiercest34

    Obviously we know trade talk is premature. So is everything else, its august. Doesnt mean we cant speculate on how to improve the team. I agree that we should see how they play together (we really dont have a choice till jan/feb) but I dont need to see a game to know the celtics are lacking legit bigs.
    Especially when u consider all the team in the atlantic now have legit centers. Chandler, Lopez, Bynum and Valincuinas, that we have to play 16 games a year against, thats a lot of banging for kg. We need a legit 6-9-6-10 type player to rotate to the 4 and 5. I personally would rather swing for the fences and go for jsmith or horford. (even though jsmith cant play the 5 hes an excellent rebounder and shot blocker). 
    One thing I think we are all over looking is chris wilcox, hes a legit 6'10 and athletic, rebounder, who is a decent defender. If he can play like he was right before he got hurt (he was really starting to find his groove) he might be able to provide that length and rebounding that we need. Maybe play him at the 4 with kg at times. Also if melo can really improve that would be HUGE. Personally I think melo is  a few years away but maybe with kg in his ear that will help him a ton. The good thing is we will get to evaluate and then decide if we need to make a move. I just think we need 2 things, more rebounding and rim protection. Maybe wilcox can do that for us.  If he cant look for the trade to land varajo,jsmith or horford.

     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]Fiercest34 Obviously we know trade talk is premature. So is everything else, its august. Doesnt mean we cant speculate on how to improve the team. I agree that we should see how they play together (we really dont have a choice till jan/feb) but I dont need to see a game to know the celtics are lacking legit bigs. Especially when u consider all the team in the atlantic now have legit centers. Chandler, Lopez, Bynum and Valincuinas, that we have to play 16 games a year against, thats a lot of banging for kg. We need a legit 6-9-6-10 type player to rotate to the 4 and 5. I personally would rather swing for the fences and go for jsmith or horford. (even though jsmith cant play the 5 hes an excellent rebounder and shot blocker).  One thing I think we are all over looking is chris wilcox, hes a legit 6'10 and athletic, rebounder, who is a decent defender. If he can play like he was right before he got hurt (he was really starting to find his groove) he might be able to provide that length and rebounding that we need. Maybe play him at the 4 with kg at times. Also if melo can really improve that would be HUGE. Personally I think melo is  a few years away but maybe with kg in his ear that will help him a ton. The good thing is we will get to evaluate and then decide if we need to make a move. I just think we need 2 things, more rebounding and rim protection. Maybe wilcox can do that for us.  If he cant look for the trade to land varajo,jsmith or horford.
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]

    He has been exposed on this point, proven wrong, and looks like a fool already here gman... he is now going back and finding players I said I thought the C's had a chance to get back in June as reasons not to dioscuss trades with me, when every point he made on Varejao was shown to be small minded and simply negative for the sake of starting fights, all fierce is good as is fighting with others

    We have to wait till Dec/Jan to make such a trade, we will see the current team a lot before that, we can talk trades in august all we want, we know already the frontcourt is less than steller, fierce is just a crybaby who gets beaten by me in arguments all the time and then changes the subject and relentlessly attacks over and over... it is pathetic
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]"Then he goes and gives his opinions left and right on how LA is going to look this year before they have even played a game together. What a joke." That's the dumbest statement you ever made this month, rame. YOU DON'T NEED TO SEE PLAYERS WITH BAD BACKS PLAY A GAME BECAUSE YOU KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY WELL! The current Celtics team haven't played a single game together and you're already talking about trading Bass, Sully, Lee, and draft picks. That's the 2nd dumbest thing you said this month, rame!
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Nope, all the reasons you give for attacking LA (and that I give as well) could potentially not be problems and be solved if you let the season play out, which you just refuse to do, b/c fighting all day with teenagers seems like your favorite thing to do in the world

    There is no way to know that Pierce's MCL, Bradley's shoulders and Green and wilcox's heart surgery will not be issues into the season either

    But you are so focused on trashing LA, that the second you involve yourself in discussion with real Celtic fans who just want to talk the roster and what may be a concern and how to fix it down the road, you just attack, attack, attack their ideas too

    what an obnoxious little weasel you are
     
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    Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.

    In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 2013 Celtics = 2004 detroit pistons. : You're the one who's obnoxious because it's still August and you're already making 3-4 paragraphs about how to trade Sully, Lee, Melo, Bass, and draft picks.  Stop pretending that other posters here don't agree with you. Even gman said he also wants to see the Celts play first. No need to test drive a race car before a race? That's dumb!
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    No need to test drive a front wheel drive sedan when you need a 4x4 is the anology here Fierce, can't you read?

    If Varejao is the defensive 6'10" rebounding Jeep Grand Cherokee this team needs, well they can drive around in Brandon Bass, a good reliable Honda Accord all they want in Nov/Dec and still do ok before moving on to the type of frontcourt player that wins titles in Feb.
     
    If I'm talking about a Feb trade why on earth do you keep saying I am breaking up the team before it plays together?? what idiocy. I am spending the dull days of August PREDICTING what we will see from the current roster and then SUGGESTING the type of trade that will be needed to improve the club come February... are you really this lost, or so caught up in somehow making me look bad that you can't see how petty and clueless you are coming off?
     

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