3 Ways to Do it

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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Put 91-95 Mitch Richmond and Derrick Coleman, guys with stats just like Gordon and Al, on those 91-95 Celtic teams and you'd have an East Finals club each year, with an older and/or less talented supporting cast than the one above

     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    Put 91-95 Mitch Richmond and Derrick Coleman, guys with stats just like Gordon and Al, on those 91-95 Celtic teams and you'd have an East Finals club each year, with an older and/or less talented supporting cast than the one above
    Posted by rameakap


    Chicago and Miami have 1st tier superstars like Rose, Bron, Bosh, and Wade.

    Eric Gordon and Al Jefferson are not even all-stars. Enough said. 
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    and yet that team would beat Chicago and take Miami to a game 7, funny thing what depth, defense and 2 guys who will combine to outscore Boozer/Rose and Wade/Bosh most nights will do for you
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    I find it comical that people think swapping Rondo/JO for Gasol is better than something like this

    Have we established that we are not getting Deron Williams and Dwight Howard?

    Personally I would rather make trades that allow us to go after those 'superstars' and yet whenever I talk about doing that I get the same statement "Boston is not on their radar' and 'they are only looking at Dallas and NJ'

    SO WHAT IS IT????

    Do we make a trade for a bunch of slightly overpaid borderline all-stars here for 1-2 more years to try and win with Pierce?

    Or do we trade everyone but Pierce, Bass, Avery and 3 draft picks or Pierce and two cheap but very good starters at SG/PF and try to get Williams and Howard????

    Cuz at least it seems clear to me we won't be getting just one of them... if Boston is the destination it will have to be b/c we have the cap room for both of them and either Dallas doesn't or we have a guy like Gordon at SG or something to make it VERY clear we'd have more talent to put around them than big D to make a title run
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    If we think we can lure those two superstars in a package deal then I am all for moves like this:

    Rondo and Bass for Kaman and Gordon

    Wilcox and the Clippers 1st rd pick for Hickson or Thompson (Kings can't afford them both)

    Unless Gordon comes back 100% and BLOWS UP, we'd be in the same seeding playoff situation we are in now... maybe a little better with a real center in Kaman. Playoff mins would look like this:

    C - Kaman (36) JON (12)
    PF - KG (28) Thompson/Hickson (20)
    SF - Pierce (36) Pietrus (12)
    SG - Ray (24) Gordon (24)
    PG - Dooling (24) Avery (24)

    The big risk is that Dooling/Avery can run the point. Gordon should be back for the last 2 weeks of the regular season to hopefully chip away at Ray's mins. If he's not then Pietrus plays 20+ and maybe Moore a little.

    You could even have Pierce play some point forward (kinda scary) but have a nasty offensive team of Gordon-Ray-Pierce-KG-Kaman on the court together

    but what would really be grea is to make yet another move to try to get a PG like Ray Felton or Steve Nash, using JO (and in Nash's case Dooling's as well) contracts and our 1st rd pick... probably Johnson to sweeten the offer.

    C - Kaman (36) KG (12)
    PF - KG (20) Thompson/Hickson (28)
    SF - Pierce (36) Pietrus (12)
    SG - Ray (24) Gordon (24)
    PG - Nash/Felton (32) Avery (16)

    I know we'd all think that team could win it all if they gel quick enough (and Nash would be the one to make it happen the easiest)
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Then you have

    Pierce - 16.8
    Avery - 1.6

    and 2 qualifying offers

    Gordon - 5.1
    Hickson (3.3) or Thompson (4.1)

    Not only is that 3 VERY GOOD starters at the 2-4... its all of 26.8-27.4 in cap space

    Max offers to Dwight and DWill can follow

    Then the MLE to Jeff Green

    Ray/KG/Nash for the vet min:-)

    and you've got

    C - Howard, KG
    PF - Hickson/Thompson, KG
    SF - Green, Pierce
    SG - Gordon, Allen
    PG - Williams, Nash
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    and if you can't get Williams and Howard... who would stupidly choose Dirk, Beaubois and NOBODY over Gordon-Pierce-Thompson or Hickson

    then you keep Kaman. Nash, KG and Ray all on 2 year deals that expire when Pierce's does

    Have only Gordon (13) Hickson/Thompson (7.5) and Jeff Green (6) Avery (3.5 QO) and a 1st rd pick under contract beyond '14... that'd be enough cap space to again persue TWO max free agents

    you know, like say Gasol and LeBron:-)
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    It is not laughable

    so I guess we can go back and forth all you want

    That team has 3 guys capable of 25 point every night ... multiple very good defenders to throw at the superstars and 3 guys capable of dub-digit rebounds every night

    I'd take that team over the '04 Pistons, '07 Spurs and '11 Mavs and if the refs didn't let Wade/Kobe get away with EVERYTHING they would beat the '06 Heat and '10 Lakers as well

     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    I still fail to see how your Rondo/JO for Gasol wet dream is any better.... unless of course it leads to DWill, which you say in the same breathe isn't going to happen b/c he doesn't want to play here

    So what is it Fierce?

    Get Gasol and say you think Deron will come here if we do?

    Go completely for broke and the draft? (yuck BTW, that takes years and it rarely works)

    Or say to h#ll with the cap space lets improve the team by trading everyone but Pierce?
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    The moves that land us Nash, Gordon, Kaman and Thompson to put around the big 3, Dooling and Pietrus make the most sense to me

    We are better this year and end up with 32 million in cap space to lure Williams and Howard but a much better trio of starters at SG-SF-PF than Dallas can offer.
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : I think it's too late to save the season. Wilcox and Bass are hurt. By the time Ainge makes a deal we would be way below .500. It's time to blow it up. Pierce to the Pacers for their 1st round pick and Paul George. Rondo for Nash and the Suns' first round pick. Ray to OKC for their 1st round pick. If a team wants to dump bad contracts and their lottery pick for KG then do it. We can build a new team from this 2012 draft class.  No more free-agents.  No more trades.  Start from scratch!
    Posted by Fiercest34


    in my opinion we can't build a future contending team with 5 picks in the 8-24 range

    we just become one of a handful of teams with lots of youth stuck in that 10-20 range in the league for several years

    it is too risky that you won't get a superstar... or you'd be crossing your fingers you'd get 3 very good starters, then could to try and trade 3-4 kids in 2014 for for a superstar AND convince one to sign here as a free agent

    only having 3 picks in the top 7 really assures us of anything.
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    how about:

    Boston - Gasol, Kaman
    Utah - Rondo, Johnson, a 1st rd pick
    LA - Harris, Bass, Jermaine

    Gasol (19) Pierce (16.8) Millsap (7.2)

    That leaves us 15 million under the cap... not quite a max offer but Deron would have to know he'd be joining a team that can win it all

    if we don't get him then its 5m contracts each for Ray, KG, Nash or Felton and Jeff Green

    With Avery and a pick

     
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : Deron and DH want to go to Dallas not because of other players. They want to go there because of Mark Cuban.  Come on, Ainge already tried that hybrid approach in 2004-05 when he combined Pierce, Gary Payton, Ricky Davis, Antoine Walker, Raef LaFrentz, and Al Jefferson. It didn't work! Time to start over. It might take longer but it will be worth the wait as the young players will grow together.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    So you're off the Gasol thing now?

    You have resigned to the fact that Deron and Howard are not coming here?

    And while Pierce was an (immature) superstar in '05, and now he's an aging one all the other matchups favor the team I constructed:

    LaFrentz could barely move, even as an 11-7 he was nowhere near what Okafor would be as a 11-11.

    Al was 19, nowhere near the guy he is now.

    Antoine was a 2 month rental beginning his rapid decent from overrated 20-8 guy in 02-03 to a 10-4 guy in 06-07. Whats that make him a 15-6? That Marion with no defense or Odom with no rebounds. And we'd have BOTH.

    Eric Gordan is much better than Ricky Davis.

    Jack is better than the '05 Payton

    Avery and Bell are like rookies Delonte and Tony, I'll give you that.

    That '05 team had 2nd rd talent. This team has East finals talent I will grant you that... not title winners with Mia/Chi so top-heavy, but they'd have a real shot and watching Pierce go out like that and then rebuilding is better than blowing it all up now

    Don't you think we can get the same draft picks summer of '13 for Marion and Okafor we could for Ray/KG right now? Maybe even trade Pierce then with 1 year left in a less shameful way where he actaully 'requests' it and can act like he picked where to go?

    Then we'd have Gordon, Al, Avery, Johnson and 3-4 picks to start the rebuild with... after at least two 2nd rd tooth and nail dog fights to hang our heads on.

    BTW, the Pacers prob wouldn't swap George for Pierce, let alone include a pick
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : That's a deal only favorable to Boston.  Ainge has a decision to make. Hopefully we'll know by March 1 what Ainge plans on doing. I will not be surprised if teams start trading on March 1. There is just not enough time if you wait for the March 15 trade deadline.
    Posted by Fiercest34


    No... I admit they can prob do better... like Felton/Beasley as the rumors swirl

    But Utah get a big upgrade at PG, cleans out the logjam in the frontcourt and saves 4 million next year.

    Harris is a reliable PG, major upgrade to Blake/Fisher... who become backups, strengthen the bench... JO brings some D rebounds and blocks behind Bynum and Bass will hit those open 18 footers all night as Kobe/Bynum are doubled

    I think LA is better
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : The 2012 Draft is deep. Not only in the first 5 or first 10 picks. All the players in the 1st round have the potential to become at the very least solid NBA players. If we can't get Anthony Davis then the next best thing is Harrison Barnes. Check out the the mock drafts then check out the players projected to go in the 1st round. You'll be impressed. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    I was at the 'Cuse-UConn game last night, then Mohegan Sun, so I have not slept yet, haha

    I am aware of the talent in the draft, I hate saying things like "I know more about them than you" to people on internet boards, but I likely do

    and unless we get 1 pick 2-4 and one pick 5-7 it is not worth it

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    4 years later you can go pick the 5 best guys who land in the 8-22 range at say of our pick, PHX's, OKC's, Indy's and the Clippers and say 'look at who we could have had!'

    like go back to '01 when we had 3 picks and say "What!?! We could have had any of Tony Parker, Gil Arenas, Zach Randolph, Gerald Wallace or Sam Dalembert over Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte" but we hit on just Joe Johnson.

    Delonte and Tony were solid picks in the 20's when we had 3 picks in '04 but I'd have rather had Kevin Martin and Varejao. He hit on Big Al tho.

    How about David Lee or Monta Ellis over Gerald Green in '05?

    The point is deep drafts can be cherry picked years later, but if you hit on 2 out of every 3 picks you are doing fantastic.... so Danny would add 3 very good players this draft if we got 5 picks...

    and teams that build title contenders through the draft... get a top 2 pick and pair them with 1-2 other top 7 picks and really there are NO examples of a team winning a title that way, just lots of 2nd rd-finals teams, like recent OKC, Chicago, Memphis teams both magic title squads, the '02-'03 Celtics, '06 Mavs (sorta) and on and on
     
    so as you like to say...

    history does NOT support you

    but Danny will not get the best player at each place he drafts of all the remaining players. He will hit on
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : Not true. If the draft is deep then pick 8 up to pick 30 must be good. Otherwise it's not a deep draft. It's best if we followed what OKC did. Bottom dweller in 2007-08, look where OKC is now.  No shortcuts, let's do it the right way this time. No more #7 pick for Telfair and Ratliff. I mean if Ainge kept that 7th pick it would have been Rudy Gay. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Yes that was a bad trade... only it led to the KG trade and the '08 title... sooooo

    Anyhow...they honored that heartless selfish showboat Rudy Gay at the UConn game last night, putting his # on the wall when Caron Butler is not up there.

    I refused to clap for him and knew UConn would lose the game the moment they did that... and guess what, thats what happened.
     
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