3 Ways to Do it

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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : Pacers have a bigger shot at beating the Bulls with Pierce than Paul George. The future of the Pacers is now! They're not a rebuilding team anymore, they already have the pieces, Hibbert, David West, Granger, and George Hill. All they need is a go to guy with playoff experience. Stop it with the Eric Gordon is better than Ricky Davis argument. Superstars win championships!  Our goal is not just to make the east finals, our goal is to raise Banner 18. We got Banner 17 because we had 3 Hall of Famers playing at a high level when they were still in their prime.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    I will admit Indy should use some forward thinking and do this

    although I rather it be Rondo/Ray for Collison, George and 2 picks, but I doubt the contracts would work
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : Who says we cannot trade 2 of the picks for a top 5, top 6, or top 7 pick?  If Ainge can get Pau Gasol then fine. But if not, guys like Eric Gordon and Al Jefferson are not the answer.  Remember, the NBA is not like NBA 2K Live, the players are humans. Like Melo, Chandler, and Amare are a great combination in 2K Live but not in real life.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    I have not played a video game since 1996

    and if you are back to saying Pau Gasol is fine then I just don't get it

    Gasol is 10-15% better than Big Al, so if its not going to get us Deron Williams, whats the point?
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Trade Rondo and Bass for Gasol

    then Jermaine, Wilcox and a draft pick for Nash or another package that incudes a PG and we can compete now

    But what is your plan for the future?

    Who do you put around Pierce/Gasol?
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : You were at the UConn game so you know Fab Melo has the potential to become a very good NBA player some day. And Fab Melo is not even expected to go higher than the 19th pick.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Yes Fab Melo would be the kind of player Sacramento would take, or a guy like Plumlee or Henson, with the Clippers pick when we trade Wilcox and that pick for Jason Thompson

    then trade JO, Avery, Johnson, Moore amd our pick for Nash

    and Rondo/Bass for Gordon and Kaman

    Title shot this year

    32 million in cap space next year
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Yeah I can't wait to see what Danny actually does, just don't like being a terrible team relying on the lotto

    I have no memory of '86, my first celts memories were of the Bird-Nique shootout in '88. I waited 20 years with no title memory before being in the stands lighting cigars at game 6 four years ago. Only a very few fans, all of us around age 30, had no memory of '86 but great memories of the big 3, a painful feeling.

    I LOVED the 91-92 teams that were fun 2nd rd teams and the blown McHale trade/passing over Tim Hardaway in '89 away from being real thorns in the Bulls side.

    I was in college and attending playoff games in 02-03 and I loved that too...

    I ran into my parents backyard screaming when we lost out on Duncan and sinking to my knees in tears back in '97.

    So last time we had 3 drafts in a row with 4 top 10 picks we ended up with Antoine, Billups, Mercer and Pierce

    Blowing 1 of those picks and trading another (along w/ the terrible Pitino trade of a top 10 in '99 for Vitaly that broke the back of the organization) made us just a top 3 team in a weak East in 02-03.

    Even if the pong balls never dropped differently (so no Duncan) we still should have had a way better team.

    That is why I hate the lotto
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    and I guess there is no way to prove your team is better than mine

    I did say that Gordon had arthroscopic surgery and is out another month

    Gasol and Mo are playoff tested for sure

    Kaman and Gordon are not

    Your duo is superior, even if mine likely comes within just a few points and reb's away on paper

    but my team also has Nash, Ray and either Jason Thompson or JJ Hickson on it

    Yours would have Avery, Moore/Sasha and Bass/Wilcox instead...

    and mine leaves the cap room for Ainge to at least say that he offered both Williams and Howard max deals with more talent than w/e they went

    Gasol, Pierce, Mo Will, Bass and Avery/Johnson make 51.5. Say KG and Ray both return and we use the MLE on Green

    C - Gasol (36 mins) KG (12)
    PF - Bass (28) KG (12) Johnson (12)
    SF - Green (28) Pierce (20)
    SG - Ray (20) Pierce (12) Avery (16)
    PG - Mo Will (28) draft pick (?) 20 mins

    Is that team a contender next season?

    You'd have to find some way to package Mo, Avery or Johnson and maybe a pick for a real PG.

     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : 2012 Draft is a deep draft, even Ainge can't screw this up.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    No, the best he will do if he doesn't have two top 7 picks is hit on 4 of the 5 and end up with a talented team deep with 7-8 guys good enough to start and 1-2 borderline all-stars age 21-25 over the next 3 years

    by 2014 we might make the first rd of the playoffs...

    very iffy

    and its just like assembling a young version of that deep team with Okafor, Marion, Jack, Odom, Al, Pierce, Gordon, Green that has 7-8 guys who can start and 2-3 borderline all-stars and in Pierce/Al at least 1 def all-star.

    That assumed Paul George or some known current 16-18ppg talent has arrived for Rondo (Gordon is this type of talent as well).

    Even landing in the 4-7 range and getting Sullinger, the guys ceiling would seem to be Al Jefferson, add a little more defensive prowess and less offensive finesse and get the same impact.

    I'd rather watch the team of vets and assume Gordon/Al make a leap to all-star thru at least next years playoffs then trust that we can build through the middle of this years draft
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    and you haven't responded to History not being on your side

    last I checked OKC had not won a title

    Titles are won by drafting a superstar and making trades or free agent signing around them and YEARS later winning a title

    Dirk and Paul in '98 - titles in '08 and '11 after KG, Ray, Marion, Chandler and Kidd all traded for

    Kobe in '96 - titles 00-02 and 09-10 after Shaq signed and Gasol/Odom traded for

    Hakeem in '84 - Thorpe/Kenny Smith and later Drexler all traded for

    SA got lucky with Duncan b/c they had a superstar in Robinson injured one year

    Lakers got crazy lucky in the 80's with Magic and Worthy picks falling in their laps when they had Kareem already same with Celtics and Parish/McHale when they just went to the east finals with Bird.

    So unless you want to talk about us drafting a Michael Jordan in this draft and then Pippen/Horace Grant in '13 and '14 I think your idea is too risky and proven to not win titles
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Gordon is 1" shorter than Wade and just turned 23

    He avg'd 17 points at the same age as Wade's final year at Marquette, then last year went off for 23 points a game at age 22.

    Who is to say he is not going to be a perennial east all-star 25ppg guy. Wade is 30 and Joe Johnson is 33. Who is going to be better? Paul George and Jeremy Lin? There are a lack of good SG's in the league.

    Al is the same height as Perk, Bosh, Noah, Amare... you put a good defender next to him like Okafor... who even at 6'9" isn't 30 yet and always gets 10 boards... and you can score more points and grab more boards than most PF-C duo's in the league.

    Only Dwight, Gasol and Bynum are really terrifying height/athletic/skill mismatches.
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    When they talk about the genius of Popovich I alway think about them getting in the lottery because Robinson was injured.   It was luck and nothing but luck.  Drafting since then by SA has not been luck.
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]Dirk and Paul in '98 - titles in '08 and '11 after KG, Ray, Marion, Chandler and Kidd all traded for Kobe in '96 - titles 00-02 and 09-10 after Shaq signed and Gasol/Odom traded for Hakeem in '84 - Thorpe/Kenny Smith and later Drexler all traded for SA got lucky with Duncan b/c they had a superstar in Robinson injured one year The Mavs had Dirk and the Celts had Pierce when they won in 2008. The Rockets had Hakeem. The Lakers had Shaq. The Spurs had Duncan and Robinson. All those teams had superstars when they won a championship.  What you're saying is Eric Gordon and Al Jefferson will be the superstars of the next Celtic championship team. Not good enough.
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]

    Thats NOT what I am saying

    I am saying that OKC has yet to win a title with its glorious draft 3 guys in the 2-5 range in the draft 3 years in a row plan that you have put up there as the gold standard

    meanwhile 90% of the teams win titles with ONE superstar drafted (top 10 usually) and trades or free agent signings for the next best players

    and 5 picks in the 8-22 range does not translate into 3 years of top 5's in a row

    or even into Antoine-Billups-Mercer-Pierce that got us nowhere.

    I am saying that the team I am suggesting would DEF compete with the Bulls/Heat and would hypothetically be able to beat NBA finals teams I have seen such as the '90 and '04 Pistons, '94 and '95 Rockets, '10 Lakers, '99 and '07 Spurs and '11 Mavs.

    Even if they can't get past the superstars, you won't know until your try
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    I always thought after the injury was healed SA still cruised for the rest of the saison and kept Robinson out of the game to have the chance for a higher draft pick!? That they ended up with Duncan was luck of course.

    But to be fair: Parker and espacially Ginobili were steals in the draft! 
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: 3 Ways to Do it : Al Jefferson is not even 6-10 with shoes on. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Al-Jefferson-2979/links/ Eric Gordon is 6-3.25 with shoes on but only 6-2 without shoes http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Eric-Gordon-328/ 1 inch in height difference also means a difference in wingspan, so 1 inch is more than 1 inch if you include other physical attributes like wingspan and reach. Please stop it, it's getting ridiculous. Heat fans have Lebron, Wade, and Bosh. Bulls fans have Rose. Thunder fans have Durant and Westbrook. Clipper fans now have CP3 and Blake Griffin. And us Celtic fans will brag about Eric Gordon and Al Jefferson? Really?
    Posted by Fiercest34[/QUOTE]


    So Al Jefferson is the only player listed at 6'10" who is actually 6'9" and all the other players listed at that height like Perk and Amare must be a legit 6'10".

    I have shown you how the OKC draft appraoch is not the one that works historically and it doesn't even pertain to where we are picking anyhow.

    I have given you options that make us better now AND give us the cap space to persue DWill/Howard (Nash, Kaman, Gordon, Thompson while keeping the big 3)

    I have given you options that make us very dangerous is '13 despite no superstars (Marion, Odom, Pierce, Okafor, Jack, the MLE, Big Al, Gordon)

    you have countered with

    "let's get Gasol and Mo Williams and see what happens"

    and

    "let's blow it up to make 5 selections in the draft between 8-22, its a deep draft so there is no way that fails"

    I am confident I have researched and thought outside the box better in my options than yours and do not feel they are at all rediculous.

    If Ainge feels he want to wait out the Heat players prime's with draft picks then fine...

    he has to hit on ONE once in a generation star (Jordan, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe, Dirk) or TWO all-stars (Ray/Pierce, Gasol/Odom, Pippen/Grant, Dumars/Rodman) and then have the cap space or trade assets to add a superstar or 1-2 other all-stars.

    Do you see picks 8-22 in this years draft landing us that?
     
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    Re: 3 Ways to Do it

    Listen, all we can do right now is speculate. We will never know.

    Agree

    But one thing's for sure, Eric Gordon and Al Jefferson are not even 2nd tier superstars. 

    Disagree. Gordon went for 23ppg as a 22 year old. He can become something special as a #2 option. Al is better than Boozer and Zach Randolph and I would rather pay him 14 million for his 21-9 than Amare and Bosh 20m for practically the same stats.

    Yes it is true that we wouldn't have LeBron, Melo and Rose around them like those other teams (except Memphis) do. Pierce and a bunch of very good starters prob don't add up to another superstar... but you can always try and find out.

    It's a given that we will have cap space and we can go after DH and Deron in the summer. That's a given. But that's not also a sure thing.

    Of course, that is why upgrading by taking others people's big contracts with our exp deals makes sense if Danny is sure those two guys won't come here even if we have the most talent of any team with space.

    If we tank now we can get draft picks. We miss the playoffs this year, next year, and in 2014 we will have enough talent to start aiming for the playoffs in 2015. That's if we start from scratch.

    It is an option for sure. Would be kinda sad. I'd just be scared it would turn out like 96-99 all over again. I trust Danny/Doc way more than Pitino, but if he was better these last few years we'd have won '10 in 5 games and never had the refs, injuries and rebounds to blame. So he doesn't have my complete faith.

    And Pitino inherited a 22 year old #6 pick in 'Toine (maybe we'd have such a talent in Gordon or Paul George if we start rebuilding) then had picks 3,6,10 and traded away pick 8 in 3 drafts in a row.

    We can tank all we want I don't see us getting into the top 7.
    And we preferably want 2 picks in the top 7.

     

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