Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Shamrocks4ever. Show Shamrocks4ever's posts

    Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

      For all the astonishment and controversy over the Kendrick Perkins trade, maybe we should've seen it coming.  During his playing days, didn't Danny Ainge (right around 1988) say that he'd trade Larry Bird if he was the Celtics' GM? 
      To follow through on that idea would've been considered both crazy and unforgiveable at the time - trading Perk is just a blip on the radar screen by comparison.  But Ainge's logic was that the original Big 3 were getting old and their title-contention days were numbered... meanwhile, Bird was still the pre-double heel surgery and debilitating back injury, arguably-best player of all time version of Larry Bird.  Imagine what he would've brought in a trade... and then think of what did happen to the Celtics in the 1990s as they stood pat on the Big 3 in the late '80s. 
      I would have HATED trading Bird, and probably never would've forgiven management for trading him - but knowing what we do now, maybe the '90s wouldn't have been a lost decade in Boston if the Celtics had used Bird to pull off the NBA's version of the Herschel Walker trade.  So, maybe Ainge was right about trading Bird back then - or at least, he has reason to think that he was right.  The Perkins trade follows much the same logic - so as much as it was a stunner for most of us Celtics fans, it actually makes a lot of sense that Danny would make a move like this one. 
      Like I said, maybe we should've seen it coming.  At any rate, it's a done deal now, so let's just hope it works!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from notrade. Show notrade's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]  For all the astonishment and controversy over the Kendrick Perkins trade, maybe we should've seen it coming.  During his playing days, didn't Danny Ainge (right around 1988) say that he'd trade Larry Bird if he was the Celtics' GM?    To follow through on that idea would've been considered both crazy and unforgiveable at the time - trading Perk is just a blip on the radar screen by comparison.  But Ainge's logic was that the original Big 3 were getting old and their title-contention days were numbered... meanwhile, Bird was still the pre-double heel surgery and debilitating back injury, arguably-best player of all time version of Larry Bird.  Imagine what he would've brought in a trade... and then think of what did happen to the Celtics in the 1990s as they stood pat on the
    Len bias and Raggie Lewis dying was the major reason of the bad 90's.







    Big 3 in the late '80s.    I would have HATED trading Bird, and probably never would've forgiven management for trading him - but knowing what we do now, maybe the '90s wouldn't have been a lost decade in Boston if the Celtics had used Bird to pull off the NBA's version of the Herschel Walker trade.  So, maybe Ainge was right about trading Bird back then - or at least, he has reason to think that he was right.  The Perkins trade follows much the same logic - so as much as it was a stunner for most of us Celtics fans, it actually makes a lot of sense that Danny would make a move like this one.    Like I said, maybe we should've seen it coming.  At any rate, it's a done deal now, so let's just hope it works!
    Posted by Shamrocks4ever[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from cshashaty. Show cshashaty's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    Good GMs don't make decisions with their hearts. That's why DA is good.

    While I admit to being shocked like most folks that DA dealt Perkins, it makes increasing sense to me the more I think about it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from spewey. Show spewey's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    I think about that at times.  I  remember a proposed deal with the Pacers giving up Sam Perkins and Detlef Shrempf for Larry that the C's passed on (I believe there was also a deal that involved Wayman Tisdale).  I have to say I still consider myself priviledged to have watched those guys play in the 80's.  Even as a kid I appreciated their work ethic of that team-they hated to lose and it showed.  With that said I am glad they held onto Larry and I think most fans share that sentiment.
     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jdm894g. Show jdm894g's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    I was reading an article on ESPN or ESPNBOSTOn about trades made by contenders mid season and how they shaped out. So it happens.  players will move on and have moved on and now it's time for the fans to move on.  In the end I believe Boston got the better end of the deal because we filled a need at the 3 and have enough centers to play defense, rebound and score.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    The reason it is such a discussed trade is because on the surface it both 1. makes total sense and 2. makes no sense. 

    I'll see how it plays out but I understand Ainge's thought process.  All the talking heads saying how this "hurts" the Celtics and "brings them back to the pack" before Green even put on a jersey are just clowns, who clearly missed the 1st 40 games this year when the C's were minus Perk.

    We all loved Perk and were sad to see him go but this sudden belief that he was an irreplacable commodity is just not true.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kaktug. Show kaktug's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    yeah, listening to some of the "experts" talk about the trade, you'd think we traded the big 3, not perk. perhaps those guys never watched perk fumble a rondo pass, put the ball on the floor for no reason, get blocked by a smaller player, set a moving pick, or get a tech for not knowing what a moving pick is.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In terms of x's and o's yeah, perk is very replacable.  But I'm afraid of messing with the chemistry.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]In terms of x's and o's yeah, perk is very replacable.  But I'm afraid of messing with the chemistry.
    Posted by cole-ely[/QUOTE]

    Agree, but I also think this trade in some way good give the Celtics some added motivation, with all the talking heads talking about how they are no longer as good as they were with Perk, well maybe they will want to prove them wrong.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from DPG182. Show DPG182's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    I agree with the Bird logic, but if that's the case, why not get rid of one of our AGING stars? If he's afraid of the rebuild that will ensue if he didnt break up the core, why not trade one of the guys that are closer to the end of their career? I would think that this logic would have kept Perk in the fold to build around along with Rondo for the future
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]I agree with the Bird logic, but if that's the case, why not get rid of one of our AGING stars? If he's afraid of the rebuild that will ensue if he didnt break up the core, why not trade one of the guys that are closer to the end of their career? I would think that this logic would have kept Perk in the fold to build around along with Rondo for the future
    Posted by DPG182[/QUOTE]

    Because with this move Ainge believes he improves for the future but still keeps a championship level team for this year and next.  With Rondo's limited offense Ainge is going to have to find other guys to surround him with who can score once KG, PP, and Ray are gone.

    As I see it, unless the Celts bring in a major star, after next year the championship window is closed for a while with MIA, NY, CHI all being relatively young and very talented.  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    What is far more telling about Ainge than your point is that Ainge himself was traded for Joe Klein and somone else at a time(I think it was 89 or 90) when this also broke up a three championship team.

    Ainge must have been profoundly effected.   He loved that team and was key member.  I remember people being very upset  and in the end it proved to be a  terrible trade.  Ainge should never have been traded. 

    I hope that does not happen this time.  

    By the way Kendrick and Bird is not a great analogy trading one of the greatest players ever and Perk is just not close. Even Ainge was a more valuable member than Perkins.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rman0909. Show rman0909's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising : Because with this move Ainge believes he improves for the future but still keeps a championship level team for this year and next.  With Rondo's limited offense Ainge is going to have to find other guys to surround him with who can score once KG, PP, and Ray are gone. As I see it, unless the Celts bring in a major star, after next year the championship window is closed for a while with MIA, NY, CHI all being relatively young and very talented.  
    Posted by Calmy[/QUOTE]

    I agree 100%. I love Perk and miss him greatly, but Ainge is bold and knows what he is doing and saw what we cannot see right now. I have said it on here before and will say it again...IF we get Troy Murphy, it will be the fitted puzzle to get to Banner 18.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from cole-ely. Show cole-ely's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    Yeah, if I remember right after ainge was traded he absolutely lit it up in sacramento.  He should have been happy to be traded. His numbers went way up for a couple of years.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    Danny said something controversial during the 1988-89 season along the lines of "you can't be sentimental, you do whats best for the future of the team"

    This was when Bird was out for the season after double ankle-surgery and the Celts were headed for a low seed, decent draft pick.

    Parish was already 35 so he had little trade value.. McHale was 31.. he should have been sent packing.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    At that time you don't trade Bird, he is like Pierce and should finish his career here, and I think the best offer was like Chuck Person and a Vern Fleming, or a pick or a big stiff C or something from Indy for him.

    What you do is trade McHale, and I think Danny was responding to being asked about trade rumors involving all of the big 3.

    The Mavs apparently offered the Celts Detlef Schrempf and their 1st rd pick for McHale, this was widely reported. You do that trade. McHale was still young enough for people to think he'd stay a dominant post guy for 3-4 years, he was 31 and putting up a 22-8. The Mavs were weak up front and felt that McHale w/ an elite other 4 starters in Blackmon, Harper, Perkins and Acquirre could knock off LA.

    Then in the draft w/ Schrempf the lanky sharp-shooting combo-forward expected to eventually replace Bird and DJ/Parish the two oldest guys on the team you draft Tim Hardaway and use Dallas pick on Vlade Divac.

    Going into the 90's you have:

    C - Parish/Divac
    PF - Bird/Schrempf
    Sf - Lewis/Schrempf
    SG - Ainge/Shaw
    PG - Hardaway/DJ

    Those teams would be great, esp run and gun w/ Timmy and bird playing 22-26 mins as a 6th man point forward.

    Instead they traded ainge for Kleine and Pinckney. Ainge had 4 more years in him as a halftime SG putting up a dozen per and Vlade/Shrempf were WAY better than Kleine/Pinckney.

    Bird was played an astonishing 39-37-38 mins per game 90-92 before he retired and could really only guard PF's when he lost his foot speed but still kept all his height and guile. McHale had a broken foot that never correctly healed. Any moron should have traded McHale for a scorer to help @ SF, draft picks to get younger and played Larry minutes in the 20's. He prob could have played a few more years.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    No matter what the Celts would have done in the 90s they weren't going to beat Jordan and the Bulls. Just ask Patrick Ewing, Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Karl Malone and John Stockton.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Shamrocks4ever. Show Shamrocks4ever's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]past history............we don't know what would have happened if bad things hadn't happened to Len Bias and Reggie Lewis.....that was the bigger setback for the club.......
    Posted by sday4x4[/QUOTE]
      I agree, the deaths of Bias and Lewis were directly responsible for the team not winning as much as it should have - I often think about how many more championships the C's would've won if only Bias had lived.  And I would have hated it if they really had traded Bird. 
      My point was only that Ainge's idea that trading Bird was the smartest move from a purely basketball/business standpoint is consistent with his move to trade Perkins.  In both cases, Ainge saw more long-term value in trading a player (in Bird's case, maybe the greatest player ever) to whom the fans had a strong emotional attachment, and seems more concerned with overall depth and talent than with team chemistry.  
      Keep in mind, Ainge was making this argument well after Bias's death, but also before Lewis developed into a star, so this isn't an either/or scenario - although the Celtics would've been much better in the '90s if Bias and Lewis had both lived, it also could've been possible for them to trade Bird in '88 and have been even better set for the '90s if both situations had played out. 
      Again, I wouldn't have traded Bird, but (assuming Bias and Lewis had lived) Ainge might say, "look how good we'd have been if we'd had Bias, Lewis, McHale, Parish, plus two more quality starters/all-star caliber players and a couple of #1 draft picks acquired by trading Bird...."  That would have been a pretty tough team going into the '90s.  And even with the loss of Bias and Lewis, the players and draft picks picked up by trading Bird would still have kept them pretty competitive.  So I can at least see the advantages of Ainge's mindset.
      I think it's interesting to ponder the "what ifs," even if it is "past history."  I just hope Ainge's old philosophy applied to this year's Celtics lets them bring home Banner 18 in June!  I still like their chances, especially if Shaq can get back to his early season form....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Shamrocks4ever. Show Shamrocks4ever's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]What is far more telling about Ainge than your point is that Ainge himself was traded for Joe Klein and somone else at a time(I think it was 89 or 90) when this also broke up a three championship team. Ainge must have been profoundly effected.   He loved that team and was key member.  I remember people being very upset  and in the end it proved to be a  terrible trade.  Ainge should never have been traded.  I hope that does not happen this time.   By the way Kendrick and Bird is not a great analogy trading one of the greatest players ever and Perk is just not close. Even Ainge was a more valuable member than Perkins.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]
      Yeah, I never liked the Ainge for Klein and Pinckney trade, either.  Don't get me wrong about the Bird/Perkins analogy - like I said, Perkins is only a blip on the radar screen compared to Bird, and same would go for the impact of the Perkins trade vs. a Bird trade.  My point was just that Ainge's logic for this move seems very similar to the logic behind his argument for trading Bird back then.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    hindsight is always 20-20
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    Shamrock,
    In thinking about it we are both right.  The comments about Bird and his own actual trade make him someone who will not be sentimental when winning a championship is at stake. The only thing is did he create turmoil within the team and set up some problems during this adjustment period.  That will make it difficult to overcome winning in the near future.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]hindsight is always 20-20
    Posted by Ortiz123[/QUOTE]

    Barbara Walters?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Celtsfan4life. Show Celtsfan4life's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    You think fan reaction is bad about the Perk deal?  Celtics would have lost a legend, showed that they have NO loyalty, and would NEVER have gotten back players who could compare to Larry.

    The bigger issues for the franchise were Len Bias dying, McHale's foot, and Reggie Lewis dying......those started a series of downfalls.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    Ainge was lying when he said he would have traded Larry Bird if he were the GM at that time. Maybe he would have traded Larry's bird, but not Larry Bird.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDUDDER. Show TheDUDDER's posts

    Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising

    In Response to Re: Ainge's old thoughts on Bird make Perkins trade less surprising:
    [QUOTE]Ainge was lying when he said he would have traded Larry Bird if he were the GM at that time. Maybe he would have traded Larry's bird, but not Larry Bird.
    Posted by P34[/QUOTE]

    What is really hilarious here is that there are likely some posters who think that Perk was on his way to having his number retired.  As if mentioning Hakeem, Kareem, the Admiral, Patrick, Howard, and 'zo without mentioning Perk was some sort of heretical nonsense.

    In reality if you mention Perk along with Cartwright, Dampier, Longley, and Big Mountain one is actually insulting them not Perk.

    To say nothing of Motumbo and a whole bunch of other centers who are clearly better like Lopez and Noah and oh by the way the guy he was traded for.

    Danny knows what he had and after 8 years of scowls, hands of stones, bad footwork, no offense, bad foul shooting, and the gigantic chasm between his actual game as opposed to his own perception of his game.  Danny did not feel badly about traded someone who has only played 12 games this year and will likely only play another 10 or so this year for someone who can actually participate in the offense.
     
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