Am I missing something?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RawckinSox. Show RawckinSox's posts

    Am I missing something?

    Okay, I have been hearing a lot of Bologna about a swap for Chris Paul and Rondo and some 3rd team. Now, as interesting as that may sound, I've also heard that one of the main reasons the Celtics are so interested in Paul is that could also potientially wheel in Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard has stated before that he would love to play with Chris Paul. However Chris Paul is uninterested of coming here because he doesn't want to carry the team on his own...So here is what I was thinking...
    Why not just cut out the middle man, (Chris Paul) and trade Rondo + the Clippers 1st round draft pick, and ours and maybe one other player like Glen Davis in a sign and trade or possibly Jeff Green for Dwight Howard? Now I know what some of you are thinking, whoa wait what? Than lose our starting point gaurd? No way, are you nuts!?!?! But think about how often a Point Gaurd comes around like Rondo, pretty often I mean you can already compare him and Paul, with Paul being the better scorer. I would not put Rondo as a "Elite" Basketball Player, I'd put him 1 notch below, I would put him in the top 4 point gaurds, but I think Rondo is very replacable.
    So now we traded for Dwight, now what? Now a few possibilities could happen, Chris Paul could get traded to the Knicks, LA, etc. but in reality that will probably be very unlikely, because think about it, A. He gets traded to LA, he gets put in the same situation as here in Boston if he got traded here, they are getting old and only would probably have Kobe after a trade, and probably within the next couple years would have to carry THAT team. B. He could go the Knicks, but who do the Knicks have that are interesting in a trade? No one really, and think about how huge of a paycut Paul would have to take.
    But lets pretend he does get extented by someone, other than the Celtics, oh no now what? Well to me it sounds like Derron Williams of the Nets seems like he wants to test free agency, to me that is a very solid plan B. you go after him, you go after Williams, sure he's a few years older, but him and Dwight could work extremely well together they could end up playing together with the Nets anyways...
    But anyways long story short (kind of) by trading for Dwight instead of a point gaurd, you are garunteed to be getting the best center in the NBA, and most likely one of the two, (Williams, and/or Paul) are going to become a free agent this offseason and you can sell to them both that they wouldn't have to carry the load by themselves they have the best center currently in the NBA right now, along with Paul Pierce, and possibly also a supporting cast of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett as mentors, and Role players. I think the smart thing to do right now is land Dwight in a TRADE you can't wait!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    I voted -wait it out- because I don't know exactly what that means, and I wouldn't trade Rondo for Paul, and I don't think Howard is all that great.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    I voted -wait it out- because I don't know exactly what that means, and I wouldn't trade Rondo for Paul, and I don't think Howard is all that great.
    Posted by RajonRondowski


    Earth to RajonRondowski:

    You might want to check to see if the screen name ChrisPaulowski is still available for you here at BDC.

    Pud
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....

    In Response to Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....:

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something? : Earth to RajonRondowski: You might want to check to see if the screen name ChrisPaulowski is still available for you here at BDC. Pud

    Posted by puddinpuddin


    -

    Lol.  Good one.

    It just doesn't have the same ring to it, though, does it.

    Looks like the votes are against trading Rondo, though, and for signing free agents.

    _
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....

    In Response to Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....:
    In Response to Preparing for a name change? Just in case..... : - Lol.  Good one. It just doesn't have the same ring to it, though, does it. Looks like the votes are against trading Rondo, though, and for signing free agents. _
    Posted by RajonRondowski


    I'm not sure that our votes count much in these matters.

    If they did, I would vote to send Rondo down to the D-league until he rounds out his game.

    When does Rayman7 make his grand entrance?

    Pud
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from RajonRondowski. Show RajonRondowski's posts

    Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....

    In Response to Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case.....:


    In Response to Re: Preparing for a name change? Just in case..... : I'm not sure that our votes count much in these matters. If they did, I would vote to send Rondo down to the D-league until he rounds out his game. When does Rayman7 make his grand entrance? Pud

    Posted by puddinpuddin



    -

    I would imagine about the time some idiots begin advocating trading Ray-Ray.

    -
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Am I missing something?:
    Okay, I have been hearing a lot of Bologna about a swap for Chris Paul and Rondo and some 3rd team. Now, as interesting as that may sound, I've also heard that one of the main reasons the Celtics are so interested in Paul is that could also potientially wheel in Dwight Howard. Dwight Howard has stated before that he would love to play with Chris Paul. However Chris Paul is uninterested of coming here because he doesn't want to carry the team on his own...So here is what I was thinking... Why not just cut out the middle man, (Chris Paul) and trade Rondo + the Clippers 1st round draft pick, and ours and maybe one other player like Glen Davis in a sign and trade or possibly Jeff Green for Dwight Howard? Now I know what some of you are thinking, whoa wait what? Than lose our starting point gaurd? No way, are you nuts!?!?! But think about how often a Point Gaurd comes around like Rondo, pretty often I mean you can already compare him and Paul, with Paul being the better scorer. I would not put Rondo as a "Elite" Basketball Player, I'd put him 1 notch below, I would put him in the top 4 point gaurds, but I think Rondo is very replacable. So now we traded for Dwight, now what? Now a few possibilities could happen, Chris Paul could get traded to the Knicks, LA, etc. but in reality that will probably be very unlikely, because think about it, A. He gets traded to LA, he gets put in the same situation as here in Boston if he got traded here, they are getting old and only would probably have Kobe after a trade, and probably within the next couple years would have to carry THAT team. B. He could go the Knicks, but who do the Knicks have that are interesting in a trade? No one really, and think about how huge of a paycut Paul would have to take. But lets pretend he does get extented by someone, other than the Celtics, oh no now what? Well to me it sounds like Derron Williams of the Nets seems like he wants to test free agency, to me that is a very solid plan B. you go after him, you go after Williams, sure he's a few years older, but him and Dwight could work extremely well together they could end up playing together with the Nets anyways... But anyways long story short (kind of) by trading for Dwight instead of a point gaurd, you are garunteed to be getting the best center in the NBA, and most likely one of the two, (Williams, and/or Paul) are going to become a free agent this offseason and you can sell to them both that they wouldn't have to carry the load by themselves they have the best center currently in the NBA right now, along with Paul Pierce, and possibly also a supporting cast of Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett as mentors, and Role players. I think the smart thing to do right now is land Dwight in a TRADE you can't wait!
    Posted by RawckinSox

    I think you are missing something. Orlando can offer Howard the most money AND pay either Paul or DWill. That makes Orlando a hot spot for vet's looking for one more run at team friendly money. Look for the likes of KG or Ray to head south after this year
    C's are in big trouble. They love Rondo for THIS team, but in the next 2-3 years he is not the type of person to attract top tier free agents, mentor a lottery pick, or lead a locker room.
    I do think DA is content with only one aspect of his roster after this year...Doc.
    I do envision him letting KG and Ray walk after this year, look to move Rondo for another building block, and move PP as well (Lakers after they clear Walton, Artest and Fischer?)
    DA will hoard draft picks and cash, looking to get a franchise player in the lottery, secure other young talent in the draft, and augment them with solid free agents, not 1 piece blockbusters (Howard).
    It will take 2-4 years, but DA and Doc can get it done.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    I voted -wait it out- because I don't know exactly what that means, and I wouldn't trade Rondo for Paul, and I don't think Howard is all that great.
    Posted by RajonRondowski


    As a stand alone statement without contracts etc figured in, I couldnt disagree more. Paul is a superior PG to Rondo.

    Regarding Howard, theres something about him I dislike but cant deny he's been the dominant center in the NBA for a number of years.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    agree on Howard....however, dominant centers do not guarantee championships....a few examples...

    Wilt..........14 seasons.....2 titles

    Kareem.....17 seasons.....6 titles (1 in Milwaukee...5 of 11 with Magic & Worthy)

    Reed.........10 seasons.....2 titles

    Thurmond..14 seasons.....0 titles

    Cowens......11 seasons....2 titles

    Unseld.......13 seasons....1 title

    Lanier........14 seasons....0 titles

    Parish........21 seasons....4 titles

    Walton.......10 seasons...2 titles (injury plagged career)

    Robinson.....14 seasons...2 titles

    Malone........19 seasons...1 title

    Duncan.......14 seasons...4 titles (played forward with Robinson at center)

    Ewing..........17 seasons..0 titles

    O'Neal.........19 seasons..4 titles (3 with Kobe)

    Howard.........7 seasons...0 titles

    15 Hall of Fame calibre centers.......214 combined seasons.....28 titles....

    we won't bring Russell into this conversation for obvious reasons....
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NYCelt. Show NYCelt's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    agree on Howard....however, dominant centers do not guarantee championships....a few examples... Wilt..........14 seasons.....2 titles Kareem.....17 seasons.....6 titles (1 in Milwaukee...5 of 11 with Magic & Worthy) Reed.........10 seasons.....2 titles Thurmond..14 seasons.....0 titles Cowens......11 seasons....2 titles Unseld.......13 seasons....1 title Lanier........14 seasons....0 titles Parish........21 seasons...2 titles Walton.......10 seasons...2 titles (injury plagged career) Robinson.....14 seasons...2 titles Malone........19 seasons...1 title Duncan.......14 seasons...4 titles (played forward with Robinson at center) Ewing..........17 seasons..0 titles O'Neal.........19 seasons..4 titles (3 with Kobe) Howard.........7 seasons...0 titles 15 Hall of Fame calibre centers.......214 combined seasons.....28 titles.... we won't bring Russell into this conversation for obvious reasons....
    Posted by Duke4


    Duke,

    I've not seen a list of dominant centers and championships like that; you make a good point about the percentage odds of success when banking the roster on a big man.  I wouldn't have thought of going back and proving it that way.

    Especially since the start of the Jordan era the NBA has really been a guards league.  Although I don't have the time to do the quality of research you presented here I'm sure someone could prove that point.  If anything, at least in the east, the game seems to have slanted toward the need for a dominant small forward.  Many basketball purists like to debate that's just a big guard anyway.

    One quick point for us "Chief" fans; he won four titles.  Don't forget, after he won with us in '81, '84 and '86, he got the 4th with the Bulls in '97 (most of us try to forget!).

    Good work on that list.

    Regards
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    I would support trading Rondo for Paul, even if Paul doesn't want to sign an extension.  No matter how you slice it the Celts window is shutting FAST and realistically this may be their last run.

    I like Rondo a lot but his inability to shoot kills this team in crunch time.  Get Paul for 1 year and go for it.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from CASox. Show CASox's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    I would support trading Rondo for Paul, even if Paul doesn't want to sign an extension.  No matter how you slice it the Celts window is shutting FAST and realistically this may be their last run. I like Rondo a lot but his inability to shoot kills this team in crunch time.  Get Paul for 1 year and go for it.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    I would not support trading Rondo for Paul for one year because thats all youll get.  I agree with you that the window of opportunity is closing but getting Paul doesnt guarantee any championship.  So, if the Cs do the deal and then dont win, then you have nothing!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinus007. Show sinus007's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    Hi,
    It's increadible how many Celtics fans want to swap RR for CP3 knowing that CP3 said that he won't sign with Boston after this season. Which means that the team looses not just a PG but an elite PG.
    Sure, there's a possibility that CP can bring #18. But what after that - abyss?
    Sure, there's a possibility that DH will be attracted by CP and comes to Boston. But, as I said in the other thread, DA is a gambler but not a reckless one, let alone a suicidal one.

    AK
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dbeach48. Show dbeach48's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    CP is NYC bound.  To each their own.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Red-16Russ-11. Show Red-16Russ-11's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    In Response to Re: Am I missing something? : The ultimate goal is banner #18. If CP3 can give our Big 3 their 2nd ring then it's mission accomplished.  The Celtics keep Rondo for the next 8 years but no banner #18. Ugh! Without any changes to the current roster the Celts are not going to win banner #18 this year, whether we like it or not. If the Celts hold on to Rondo it's going to be Paul Pierce, Rondo, maybe Jeff Green, Avery Bradley, Jajuan Johnson, and E'Twaun Moore. No way those players are going to make it to the Finals in the next 5 years. 
    Posted by Fiercest34


    Agree - he is NOT a Free Agent yet and has to play wherever he is.  If we only have him for one year, so be it.  Next year's list includes Steve Nash and Chauncey Billups - not counting people who get the ax.


    Just read this, also:

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216946/Small_Market_GM_Players_Won_When_NBA_Abandoned_Hard_Cap

    Amen, brother.....was probably the GM of the Hornets..........this cr..p was not supposed to happen this time, and I'm souring on the NBA right now.  This is dirty and corrupt, and you can tell Sten is behind it.  Watch Paul go to NY, DH go to LAL and DWill somehow end up on MIA..............then, I will be done until they get a new commissioner!!

    VOTE NO!!!  DO NOT RATIFY THIS DEAL!!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinus007. Show sinus007's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    Fiercest,
    IMO, the goal is to keep the team as a contender for many years. The ultimate goal is to win those contentions.
    Also, at this point we can't use "current roster" in a discusssion for obvious reasons. As for the future I can't predict Celtics roster even knowing 100% that RR stays, neither can you.

    AK
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    Thanks to NYCelt for catching my mistake on Parish....how the hell could I have made that mistake...? .....anyway, I corrected the original post...thanks again buddy!!!
     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    Hi, It's increadible how many Celtics fans want to swap RR for CP3 knowing that CP3 said that he won't sign with Boston after this season. Which means that the team looses not just a PG but an elite PG. Sure, there's a possibility that CP can bring #18. But what after that - abyss? Sure, there's a possibility that DH will be attracted by CP and comes to Boston. But, as I said in the other thread, DA is a gambler but not a reckless one, let alone a suicidal one. AK
    Posted by sinus007


    The Abyss is coming either way. 

    The Celts choices are....

    1.  Keep Rondo, be a 3-4 seed this year, win a play-off round and steadily decline in 2013 and beyond.

    2.  Get Paul and be an actual contender for the title this year and then steadily decline in 2013 and beyond. 

    I like Rondo but his inability to score or create his own offense has done this team in 2 years in a row, having a true scoring threat at the PG position would make this team far more dynamic. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinus007. Show sinus007's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    Hi again,
    I doubt that getting CP for RR automatically makes Celtics a contender.
    The reason for that is this. You can't swap them 1-to-1, you need somebody else. Whether it's BBD or JG or some other player(s) this trade significantly diminishes Celtics ability to get a decent center to start or back up JON (I believe in no center = no title).
    Also, they need back up for KG. JJJ looks very promising but until he's battle tested prospect remains a prospect.
    Also, who's going to back up PP? So far all they have is QO to JG.
    Bottom line, once again, the CP trade takes too much resources to build a contending team for this season.

    AK
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    In Response to Re: Am I missing something?:
    Hi again, I doubt that getting CP for RR automatically makes Celtics a contender. The reason for that is this. You can't swap them 1-to-1, you need somebody else. Whether it's BBD or JG or some other player(s) this trade significantly diminishes Celtics ability to get a decent center to start or back up JON (I believe in no center = no title). Also, they need back up for KG. JJJ looks very promising but until he's battle tested prospect remains a prospect. Also, who's going to back up PP? So far all they have is QO to JG. Bottom line, once again, the CP trade takes too much resources to build a contending team for this season. AK
    Posted by sinus007


    It might require slightly more than Rondo but you have to take into account how much CP3 is leveraging the Hornets position by saying he wants to go to NY.  It basically means NO can either A. keep him and let him walk for nothing.  B. trade him to NY for whatever 'scraps' package the Knicks can piece together.  C. trade him somewhere else, with both sides knowing it is essentially a 1 year rental.

    I'd say Rondo for 1 year of CP3, which is all the Celts are getting is actually more than fair compensation to N.O.  I doubt too many teams are going to be lining up to trade away all stars to get a guy for 1 year.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    It doesn't matter if folks on this board would "support" trading Rondo for Paul, even for one year. Because NO is not making that trade. So, time for a different discussion. 

    As for trading for Howard, I'm pretty sure Ainge would do it if the Magic were interested. But a pu-pu platter including Rondo is not going to get Howard here either. 

    "But think about how often a Point Gaurd comes around like Rondo, pretty often "

    Umm not that often, Rondo just broke some franchise assist records last year as you'll recall. His game is not perfect and Paul is the better player - though Paul has a lot more trouble staying healthy, something the anti-Rondo contingent on this board is in denial about - but Rondo is a pretty unique player. 

    I'm not sure if I'd "support" a Rondo-plus-teammates for Howard trade but it doesn't matter since that trade won't happen. 

    Our best chance is to get Howard as a free agent and let go of the Paul fantasies.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from scubber. Show scubber's posts

    Re: Am I missing something?

    How do you know NO won't make the trade?  NO will take the best deal that comes around for Paul, that much is very clear since Paul is leaving no matter what.
     
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