Are we better without Rondo?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from breaktime. Show breaktime's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    In response to Karllost's comment:

    Doc cant do anything about it even if what many seem to be suggesting is true.. Doc has had his tail between his legs with this kid for years trying to force feed sweet thoughts and tender lullabies into his head...

    Even after the "fight" Rondo started, Doc criticized Humphries and probaly cuddled up with Rondo into the night whispering repeatedly in his ear "it's not your fault, it's not your fault....."

    He's a brat and a leader by appointment, not earned..  Just remember the hiatus  Rondo took on the court a couple years ago after Perk got traded.. He rubbed it in DOc & Dannys face and they both stood by and took it bending over... 

    A respectable PG and Center would be a good exchange for our allstar hof PG imo



    You should be leading the charge to get rid of Doc.  If a coach can't control his players, particularly his key ones, as you're saying, what  business does he have  coaching the team?




    It's systemic in all pro sports... why? Cause usually the star players make much more $$$ than the coach and make their league/team much more $$ than the coach... So when push comes to shove..goodbye coach... ownership wont back him.

    My point was DOc needed to attempt nipping in the bud Rondos brat behavior early on.. before he got empowered.  No differrent than raising a kid and spoiling him for years.. ya think when hes 15 you're gonna change his ways??

    Now its unlikely any coach can make much of a difference unless Rondo "brats" himself into oblivion and nobody wants him  (see Marbury and AI)

     

     




    If Doc felt  it was as great a problem as you and other posters feel,  I wonder how it would play out in Boston.  DA & Doc probably see more  eye to eye than DA & Rondo.  And Rondo, being the polarizing  figure he  is, might end  up with the short end  of the stick.

    Being overseas and not splurging on NBA league pass for the regular season (usually do it for the playoffs, depending on the C's chances), I don't get to see the team, and Rondo in particular, play on a regular basis, so I can only assume, you and others are right when  posting that on defense Rondo cheats  for steals instead of blocking  his man, therefore causing our bigs to go after his man  when  he penetrates, and on offense, stagnates the defense by not moving the ball enough.

    But these are fundamental issues, easy to spot on game tape, and I'm surprised the coaching staff isn't addressing them if they are detrimental and are done on  a continual basis.  So, if you're seeing them, the  coaches should be too and I'm confused there.

    My issue with  Rondo has been more about his attitude than his game.  He loses control of his emotions in the moment.

     

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to BirdLewsBias's comment:

    No, we're better with Rondo. Remember this happened last year  and the ball started moving when AB played. Rondo just needs to stop holding the ball and now that the streak is over I think we'll see Rondo really turn up his game.

    Our defense is better overall because Rondo likes to gamble and it leaves our bigs to step up and then teams find open shots. We saw last night better team defense and hopefully Rondo becomes a better on the ball defender and not risk team defense.

    Jeff Green has to keep th.at mentaility and boy do we need AB back to set the tone on our perimeter defense



    I think you hit the nail on the head with everything you said.  Our team defense was a lot better last night because the guards didn't breakdown the defense but a couple times.  Was it Rondo or Portland?  We should get a better look at it tonight with the Bucks guards.
    Lee is a lot like Bradley.  He hustles his butt off on both offense and defense.  It would be nice to see AB and Lee wearing out another teams backcourt with their on the ball defense. It might spread like wildfire.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    Rondo's strengths shine best in the playoffs in which games are defensive oriented half court affairs which plays well to his superb passing in half  court sets.  And with his unique skills he can win a game or two on individuality which is often needed to advance (see LeBron James games 6 and 7 in the 2012 ECF). His weakness is extreme moodiness that is often manifest in his up and down play and even changes in his play from game to game (shooter one game, rock pounder the next, plays defense the next); if I indulge in arm chair phsycology, one might be tempted to say he has a narcisistic disorder, which is an extreme version of the egoism that most pro players have already. Rondo's style of play - mostly very good to excellent - still does seem to take all of the oxygen out of the room (court) so to speak; no wonder the team is searching for an identity. Doc made a huge mistake annointing him team leader because that does not happen by decree, but happens because the players know it to be true - it is self evident. Nobody had to call Magic or Larry thier team's leaders. If Rondo wants to become the self evident team leader of the Celtics, a good place to start would be his defense.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from basketbert. Show basketbert's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to futbal's comment:

    Rondo's strengths shine best in the playoffs in which games are defensive oriented half court affairs which plays well to his superb passing in half  court sets.  And with his unique skills he can win a game or two on individuality which is often needed to advance (see LeBron James games 6 and 7 in the 2012 ECF). His weakness is extreme moodiness that is often manifest in his up and down play and even changes in his play from game to game (shooter one game, rock pounder the next, plays defense the next); if I indulge in arm chair phsycology, one might be tempted to say he has a narcisistic disorder, which is an extreme version of the egoism that most pro players have already. Rondo's style of play - mostly very good to excellent - still does seem to take all of the oxygen out of the room (court) so to speak; no wonder the team is searching for an identity. Doc made a huge mistake annointing him team leader because that does not happen by decree, but happens because the players know it to be true - it is self evident. Nobody had to call Magic or Larry thier team's leaders. If Rondo wants to become the self evident team leader of the Celtics, a good place to start would be his defense.



    I think you hit it right on the head.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    We played a team on its fourth game of ten on the road.  We also came off a game where they lacked effort and Doc called them out.  So hold on.  Rondo handles the ball too much and his assist streak was hurting the team.  Tonight things may return to normal as we have a back to back, luckily Milwaukee does to.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    I really like making judgements based on one game, or even two versus an individuals entire career.  

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    My post was about Rondo's career evelution with the Celtcs, although that may inform why the team seemed somewhat refreshed last night without him in the lineup (much like it was last year when he went down, they played well with AB and Ray in the back court). He is an enigmatic player, period. He is a potential true all star player period. I for one, like that he fought with Humphries, Larry fought, even Magic fought, Dr. J fought, Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers even got in fights.The Celtics are a much better team with him on the floor, period, and he elevates his game to near greatness in the playoffs period. But to me, he seems narcistic, it seems the games pace, flow, etc. is always about him; his assist streak, his ole defense, he's the leader (thanks Doc), he's the best point guard in the league (as if that idiotic notion actually matters). Rondo is struggling to understand what being a true Celtic means and as I said above, it can start on defense, and I'll add transfer to running the ball and getting rid of the rock (instead of pounding it) as others have noted. Maybe Doc just doesn't like in-game coaching because this giving the reigns to Rondo thing isn't working out.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from AyyyBoston. Show AyyyBoston's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    Just one game.  We're not better without Rondo.   We just need Rondo to stop holding on to the ball so long, to check his ego, and to get the ball moving.   Doc, KG, etc, have created a monster by continuing to tell this kid its his team.   He already drove Ray away.   I hope he watched tonight and saw how good a team can play when the ball is shared (and yes, I know it was a tired and weak Portland team, but so was Detroit and we got blown out by them!).



    Good point and I guess this is what I want too. We need the ball to be in the hands of players besides Rondo more often...I say trade him only if he can't get this into his head (or if a trade that is too good to pass up comes around...but that probably won't happen).




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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    In response to hedleylamarr's comment:

    In response to AyyyBoston's comment:

    In response to Celtsfan4life's comment:

    Just one game.  We're not better without Rondo.   We just need Rondo to stop holding on to the ball so long, to check his ego, and to get the ball moving.   Doc, KG, etc, have created a monster by continuing to tell this kid its his team.   He already drove Ray away.   I hope he watched tonight and saw how good a team can play when the ball is shared (and yes, I know it was a tired and weak Portland team, but so was Detroit and we got blown out by them!).



    Good point and I guess this is what I want too. We need the ball to be in the hands of players besides Rondo more often...I say trade him only if he can't get this into his head (or if a trade that is too good to pass up comes around...but that probably won't happen).




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  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to darkman20's comment:

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Probably not, but Terry is our best backup point guard.



    U trying to curry favor w Pud & Darkman?




    Someone that is trying to be objective should always be commended. 

    When Rondo doesn't play: The ball moves better, and more people are involved in the offense, which becomes less predictable and opens it up for more options.  I wish Rondo would have gotten suspended longer, so the Celts could gel and show how good they could be when the ball is shared.  

    Trade Rondo for a half decent big man...let Terry run pg until the Celts can get someone better.  



    Bingo...also lee is making his best impression of solid all around player..ala Dennis Johnson..

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to futbal's comment:

    My post was about Rondo's career evelution with the Celtcs, although that may inform why the team seemed somewhat refreshed last night without him in the lineup (much like it was last year when he went down, they played well with AB and Ray in the back court). He is an enigmatic player, period. He is a potential true all star player period. I for one, like that he fought with Humphries, Larry fought, even Magic fought, Dr. J fought, Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers even got in fights.The Celtics are a much better team with him on the floor, period, and he elevates his game to near greatness in the playoffs period. But to me, he seems narcistic, it seems the games pace, flow, etc. is always about him; his assist streak, his ole defense, he's the leader (thanks Doc), he's the best point guard in the league (as if that idiotic notion actually matters). Rondo is struggling to understand what being a true Celtic means and as I said above, it can start on defense, and I'll add transfer to running the ball and getting rid of the rock (instead of pounding it) as others have noted. Maybe Doc just doesn't like in-game coaching because this giving the reigns to Rondo thing isn't working out.



    Here's the distinction... those other guys that fought were the principles in the altercation and reacted in the heat of the moment... Rondo wasnt involved in the altercation, KG was... and Rondo wasnt trying to protect his teammate or break up/calm down a fight... there was no fight ...yet

    Not until Rondo decided to instigate one

     

     

     

     

     

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to kyceltic's comment:

    How can he not "rack up assists" when he has the ball 90% of the time, and won't shoot a wide open lay up?



    Exactly, i was totally peeved when he goes underneath, an shoots the ball all the way out to the three pt line for a 30 ftr...man, take the foul and the free bees..but when you are going for records instead of wins...

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ortiz123. Show Ortiz123's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    Rondo for Big Al and ???

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to darrylfries' comment:

    No     A Lot of other teams would be better with him.    Imagine him with Miami



    or the Lakers

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kyceltic. Show kyceltic's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    Neither team would be better with him!!

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    In response to darkman20's comment:

    In response to breaktime's comment:

    In response to Kirk6's comment:

    Probably not, but Terry is our best backup point guard.



    U trying to curry favor w Pud & Darkman?




    Someone that is trying to be objective should always be commended. 

    When Rondo doesn't play: The ball moves better, and more people are involved in the offense, which becomes less predictable and opens it up for more options.  I wish Rondo would have gotten suspended longer, so the Celts could gel and show how good they could be when the ball is shared.  

    Trade Rondo for a half decent big man...let Terry run pg until the Celts can get someone better.  




    I agree that the ball moves better when Rondo is not in the game.

     



    In addition, last night Lee stopped dribble penetration! This took pressure off of our interior defenders. 

    AB did a great job at this last year!

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    The defensive stat surprises me:

    With Rondo on the court, according to Basketball-Reference.com, the Celtics are 10.5 points per 100 possessions better. Oddly enough, his biggest impact so far has been on Boston's defense. The Celtics are 8.7 points per 100 possessions worse defensively whenever Rondo sits. In other words, they are an average defensive team with him on the floor. When he sits, they become significantly more porous than the league-worst Phoenix Suns. That could be partially due to Barbosa, who has really struggled at times defensively, especially getting over screens.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    i disagree that the ball moves better when rondo is not in the game. we know that a high assist to fg ratio is a desirable thing in the nba. last nite's ratio was 55%. on the season, Cs are coming in at 63%. if that doesn't lead the league it comes very close and i don't know what team does lead the league. not lac, not sa, mem or brklyn or any of the several others i checked. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from prakash. Show prakash's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    We should not forget that the Celts were playing Portland, a team that had just lost to Washington.  The Celts are struggling to crack the upper tier group of basketball teams.  That is where they are getting frustrated.  Getting excited about Courtney Lee and Jeff Green will be justified when they help Boston beat up decent opposition consistently.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from BCSP. Show BCSP's posts

    Re: Are we better without Rondo?

    In response to prakash's comment:

    We should not forget that the Celts were playing Portland, a team that had just lost to Washington.  The Celts are struggling to crack the upper tier group of basketball teams.  That is where they are getting frustrated.  Getting excited about Courtney Lee and Jeff Green will be justified when they help Boston beat up decent opposition consistently.



    +1 the voice of reason! 

     
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